sky warrior

Hi there,
I am an intermediate flyer looking to practice pattern moves and 3d moves. I fly a pattership and a small turbine. I own a Macintosh!! so I shall have to buy a PC
My question is:
Which is the best sim for PATTERN...3D... JETS ( not fussed about Heli)
Which gives the most realistic feel
I assume they all come with their own control box (Ihave a Graupner MC24 radio I shall need a all in one programme with control box) or are they all the same?
What PC spec do I need as I have scoured the Ebay ads and I might consider having a unit built to a high spec but for instance no DvD writer, no modem etc. Just the components in a box to have a great running sim.
I have also seen a post which says do not use a tft screen as they update slowly. Is this true and if so what spec should the scrren come up to?

wsn

Hi,

first of all, whatever you dicide, you need the student socket 3290.3 for your MC-24 in order to let it talk with ANY sim. Your pc should have a reasonable motheboard of 1500-2500MHz - most important is the video card. In order to have some buffer for the latest developments, I would go for a 128 MB card because there are some news to come up early next year that really make fun with 128. NVidia od ATI dosn't really matter - this is a question of budget. As a minimum, a 32 MB card would do as well. Pls try to avoid the Geforce MC cards as their performance won't justify the price difference.

In your MAC environment I would have a look at these lovely barebone PC's like they are offered by [link=http://www.shuttlecomputer.com]Shuttle[/link] - small, powerfull and nothing more than you really need.

A few friends of mine are using a panel switching in order to use your MAC screen with the PC. Works fine but it will not work with ALL screens. My TFT has two inputs that can be used by MAC and PC simultaniously. Switching is done by mouseclick. In general, TFT is very much suitable. I'm using my Reflex on a laptop and and a desktop with a 19" TFT. Never regretted that decision a single second. The old TFT reservations come from budget 15" super market screens and they sometimes had problems with fast screen reneval at high contrast. Any regular "state-of-the-art" TFT doesn't have these problems.

What sim? Well, I'm the Reflex manufacturer so a recommendation won't help much. This is for others to recommend a product.

Cheers - wolfgang

sky warrior

Wolfgang,
Thanks for the candid and useful info.
I own an i Mac 1 Ghz version and would very much like to use the screen of my Mac set up if possible. Firstly I like the quality of the 17" screen and also it will make having to buy a different computer set up just for the simulator aspect a little more sensible re overall cost.(who knows I might be able to afford two different sim products including "Reflex" which I must say gets a lot of mentions in these columns).
What chip is best is a P4 @2.5hz o.k..necessary re future or will a P3 always be o.k.
I have a student cable from the MC24 so does this mean I can use my radio. In fact I would prefer to use the MC20 which was wired for student use with the MC24,is this compatable. I would appreciate any help with detailed setup info re how to wire and switch my Mac screen and how to connect the MC20. (when I got all the cables from Graupner there were no instructions in English and some of the parts were redundant) but after about 3 days of trial and error I set it up and risked my turbine !! Thank ... it worked so this is why I always try to get as much detail as poss.

bluesky123

My Feedback: (2)

sky warrior,

By far the best value and impressive performance is delivered by AMD Athlon XP processor and nForce2 motherboard. Here in the US, motherboard and CPU can be purchased for about $100 together (check out www.newegg.com).
I've just sold my P3 system and assembled a new one with Biostar M7NCD Pro board and Athlon XP 1800+ overclocked to 2100+ level. Works faster than P4 2GHz at work!

Regarding the sim: RC Plane Master is a pretty good sim, which costs half as much as other serious sims (I've tried them all).

Hope this helps,
Boris

sky warrior

Boris
thanks for the info and I am also now looking at the newegg site which looks good.
You dont however mention your video card, and I would be interested in that opinion as I am completely "green' on PC kit. Do Newegg supply the bits and you assemble it? (I presume it is cheaper that way re labour and tax) or do they assemble the whole unit. Iam keen to try the assembly but have little knowledge of this or PC bits and lingo. What would you advise in my case?
P.S.
What about a ATI FIR GL 8800 128 Mg DDR Retail with no TV output (I would not require TV output) or
Radeon 9200 8XP with 333 FSB AGP card.
I am quoting from an ad on Ebay which is another option

bluesky123

My Feedback: (2)

Fire GL cards are aimed at professionals working mostly with OpenGL graphics. Computer games, like RealFlight, use a different API, DirectX, which has somewhat different requirements to video card hardware (i.e., the fastest OpenGL card may be not the best card for DirectX).

The choice of video card, besides obvious monetary considerations, is also a "religious" matter. Some people swear by ATI Radeon cards, while some other buy only nVidia GeForce cards. I've tried both and, while both deliver good performance, nVidia drivers seem more stable and troublefree.

To find the best price on PC hardware, you should read other forums, like Anandtech Hot Deals or FatWallet Hot Deals:
http://forums.anandtech.com/categories.cfm?catid=40
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/categories.cfm?catid=18

Good luck,
Boris

wsn

[link=http://www.gemma.co.uk/]Gemma[/link] in the UK is customising/testing the little barebones at 5 lst. A lovely XPC with fancy design plus a 64 MB Geforce 4 or FX card plus CPU plus memory is little more than 350 Lst. That's rather safe for the future.

Cheers - wolfgang

sky warrior

Wolfgang/Boris & anyone who might like to comment
Contacted "Gemma" here in UK and they are not far from where I live which is ironic.
I have thrashed out the following spec with them bearing in mind I want this machine,since its a now sim dedicated machine to serve my R/C sim purposes and I suspect now I am about to take this kind of plunge "In cockpit Flight simulator "programes where I am flying from a different aspect. I understand from the two mags I have bought these require heavy processing !! And differnt stlye of card and certainly a large one.
Spec so far:
Pen 4 2.8ghz @800fsb 512k
SMAB 448 PN motherboard @800fsb intel 845pe, 5pci. 2ddr 400 ram slots Audio +Lan+V+L
512 MB 400 DDR ram
Ethernet to router connection
CD/RW/DVD R
30 G HARD DRIVE @7200
PIXEL VIEW GF FX 5900 128 MB DDR 8XAGP DVI VIVO RETAIL 400/800MHZ CORE (NVG35) VIDEO CARD !!!!!
I need some advice on a TFT 17" monitor spec What is the recommended spec to get the best out of this set-up (assuming this is an OK set up ) please.
Any advice is welcome as I am learning by the minute as you can see. Two days ago I did not know a ,,, about PCs and although its parrot speak at present some of it is sticking to my brain cells as it passes through.
Heres looking forward to your replies as I am getting quite excited about building this little monster (If I get it right)

wsn

That looks like a real pro configuration. Go for it and you will have a lot of fun with a lot of nice sims ...

Regarding the TFT you can't do many mistakes. Dell.co.uk has a special promoton these days:

Technical Specifications Tube type and size / Viewable image size: Active matrix TFT LCD / Diagonal 17.0" (43.1cm)
Dot pitch (mm): .264mm
Horizontal scan range: 31 kHz-80 kHz (automatic)
Vertical Scan Range: 56 Hz-76 Hz (automatic)
Brightness (cd/m2) (typical) / Contrast ratio (typical): 250 CD/m2 typical / 350:1 typical
Viewing Angle: '+/- 60° Vertical, +/- 70° Horizontal
Optimal preset resolution / Highest preset resolution: 1280 x 1024 @ 60 Hz / 1280 x 1024 @ 75 Hz
Display Modes: 31.5 kHz Horizontal, 70.1 Hz Vertical / 31.5 kHz Horizontal, 59.9 Hz Vertical / 37.5 kHz Horizontal, 75.0 Hz Vertical / 37.9 kHz Horizontal, 60.3 Hz Vert. / 46.9 kHz H, 75.0 Hz V / 48.4 kHz H, 60.0 Hz V / 60.0 kHz H, 75.0 Hz V
Connector type: 15-pin D-subminiature analog (blue)
Dimensions H x W x D / Weight: 15.07" (383mm) x 15.92" (404mm) x 7.87" (200mm) / 14.11 lbs. (6.4 kg)

but I wld check the dual use ability of your MAC monitor first. It's already there so it won't eat much.

Cheers - wolfgang

nahumfre

Dear sky warrior
I was in the same situation few months back I am long time modeler (35 years!) and mac (15 years) mainly for your reasons I brought a PC P4 2.4 GHz 556 Ram fast 80 G HD NIVIDA GeForce FX 5200 with ACER AL922 19!QUOT! TFT (suitable for Mac too). Work fine with Realflight G2 with all 3D feature on Home XP. Still use my Mac G4 800 Mhz with apple 17!QUOT! TFT display for almost every thing else. I set up home network for transferring files from mac to PC (MS office Hebrew enable works only on windows). I do not think you can share your i Mac monitor with a PC because it is integral part of the system as in laptop. you may be able to use your PC monitor on the i Mac as a second display. As for Sim I think the both reflex and Aero fly pro are better for 3D type models and their malefactors are more familiar with your transmitter than realflight.
i wish some one will offer model airplane Sim for the Mac - Wolfgang, any comments?
Nahum

sky warrior

Thanks for the comments Nahum and as you said whilst `I have a really good screen I have to find someone willing and capable to rewire it to a switch( even a physical one so as I can use it for both. Had it been a cinema display then >>>
How did you find the card,is it fast enough for the best possible performance on these two programmes? I only want more power you see if I go to the "In cockpit sim" like "You are now flying the 747 etc" and I might get the rest of the kit at a high spec and just see if I can pick up an adequate card in the meantime.

nahumfre

I brought the computer in Israel - the card is pretty standard for Gamer PC. As for now it worked fine with any game my son tried to run on it and perfectly with realFlight. As indicated by some on other discussion treads any of the three main player should work fine on your machine (a bit of overkill if anything) reflex and Aerofly are said to be better for 3d model simulation. I do not feel I qualify to judge
Nahum

sky warrior

Hi there,
Thanks for all your advice and input, I thought I would let you know that I have finally ordered my sim/gaming rig. I think it will run just about anything I am likely to throw at it BUT on 11/9/03 when I first posted this and another few threads ( some on PC sites dedicated to squeezing the last Mhz from the god Pentium ), I knew nothing of the world of PC's at all as I am a Mac man. Its with the help of you guys and forums like these that we can all exchange our specialized info and help each others learning curve. My curve was straight up!!

Anyhow I thought I would finally settle with the following:

Shuttle SB61G2 800hz motherboard
Pent 4 @ 2.8hz 512 cache @ 800 mhz
1 G DDR Ram 400
30G Maxtor @7200
Cd /RW DVD
HIS Radeaon 9800 pro 128 mb 8xAGP ( E Bay purchase !! )
17" LG monitor

I will report in couple of weeks when I have had chance to sample the above and check the bank balance!
Thanks again

sky warrior

HI Wolfgang, Boris and all,
I can report that with all your help from this forum and one other where I had a LG L1710B screen recommended which is absolutley fantastic, the rig is great. The rest of the rig is as described. Shuttle SBG61 with 800 fsb + Pentium 4 @ 2.8GHZ with 800 fsb and HIS / ATI Radeon Pro 128 mb Samsung multi drive CD/DVD and 1 Gb of DDR ram 400. Yes its over the top but it runs EVERTHING FULL ON and with all stops out and thats what I wanted. Just see MSFS 2002 seaplane land on water in the rockies is worth it, and it even bobs about on the choppy water.
I am very grateful to you all as I had no knowledge of Pcs until I read this forum which goes to show that the speed at which you can learn things with info like this at your finger tips is astonishing. I would also add that Real Flight G2 runs like it is just there in front of you which makes for an extremely useful simulator for polishing up my flying skills. Well back to the rebuild of my turbine which prompted all of this which should be complete by Sunday. If not then its swich on the sim and turn up the heating cause winter may be here.
Bye

bluesky123

My Feedback: (2)

You should try to hoock your PC to a big screen projector, that will add quite a bit of realism!
The company, where I work, has such projectors in all our conference rooms. I once took my laptop and flew G2 on a 20x15 foot screen, standing in front of it! Too bad the sound came from dinky laptop speakers (no surrounding sound speakers in the room, what a shame).