Gisbert

just got my XTR yesterday. gosch, what a difference! helis in XTR just show a very long road to go for the G2 and AFP people. fixed wings are hard but i like it the hard way. see, i earn my money in aviation industry. that's what i call a simulator. sh... i wish i could get that 3d engine for my projects. the only difference to the real field is the missing smell, the tanning and the fly around the nose. i'll get to Toledo somehow to meet these people in person. brilliant work! thanks - gisbert

IronicRcAv8r

My Feedback: (21)

OK the heli's are great -- BUT!!! How do the 3D planes perform??? No where near as good as AFP

AFP is the cats meow -- HANDS DOWN!!!! for 3D planes

Gisbert

sorry - but no. we were sitting here over a tea with 5 local pilots watching the beamer ... there will be 5 afp's on ebay tonight! no time anymore, have to do some simulating. that will be something for jane's. gisbert

serge1

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry but I disagree.
Sege

F14

Hi all,
I'm not an expert in those simulator but I wish to buy one so today I've read lots of messages about G2, AFP and XTR... I noticed that the most of people talk about 3D and helis but what about other kind of planes ?
I don't want to start a flame but is seems people buy simulators just for 3D and helis... I haven't read nothing, or very few, about DF, turbines, trainers, bipes and so on, can I think that those simulators works in the same way for that kind of models ?
Regards

Angelo

IronicRcAv8r

My Feedback: (21)

Lets see some video --- the proof is in the pudding !!!!!

Lets see new member 5 posts all bashing AFP -- looks like another miffed supplier/programmer

Gisbert

So what? It's a free world out there (in most cases). my advantage is that I can compare both. But I won't fight oppinions here. gisbert

IronicRcAv8r

My Feedback: (21)

Afp also works great for trainers -- and bipe's let me tell you this -- download the chip hyde bipe for AFP and you will really see AFP and how GREAT it is!!!!!

Gisbert

@IronicRcAv8r: still working for that lousy company? is that all you can do throwing mud when another oppinion shows up? grow up, finish high school. i was just telling my oppinion - that's all. i like it - period.

F14

Ironic,
IMHO the main problem about Afp is the serial port... ok about the protection but today most new laptop models are without that port and both G2 and Xtr are on usb, could be very interesting to see a Afp usb version available soon!

Gisbert

so if someone has another oppinion from the experience he is building up, he is "another miffed supplier/programmer"? Where do you live to be that arrogant? Iran? Iraque? Syria?

mupchu

Can you get a little more specific Gisbert? No offense, but you sound just like all the people who over hype AFP as the second coming, with very little if any real content. If XTR is better . . . how and why? There are also a whole bunch of people who are NOT into helo's so what exactly was fixed wing flight like? If 3d was hard, fine but was it similar to your experiences and how do you rate yourself as a pilot? This thread is just as lame as the AFP is the best period thread, and at least some people in that thread could explain themselves why they liked it better (though that is debatable).

If you are going to post in a like manner then please enlighten us as to why you think it is the best, or else don't post. I can believe that XTR is better, but to be honest i am a bit apprehensive. The video's I watched didn;t seem to have a great frame rate, while the scenery was nice i don't see the most extreme maneuvers being performed either (Not that a video would prove a thing). Be a little more specific about fixed wing being hard . . . some people find that torque rolls are hard yet others find just landing hard.

serge1

My Feedback: (1)

Gisbert,

You're free to give your opinion but in no way I will sell my AFP on e-bay for reflex...How much time you spent on AFP before throwing your final verdict? Perhaps the heli mode is great but
I doubt it top AFP for IMAC and 3D. Show me some video and perhaps I will review my tought

Serge

F14

about my previuos post:
1) I've a laptop as I need it so the simulator must run on it;
2) I told you about the Afp usb version because I'm used to compare the same kind of software with the same characteristics: a simulator that use the usb port and a simulator that use serial port, IHMO, cannot be fully compared.

mupchu

He's just giving you flak because your opinion has no content other than (to paraphrase) "It roxxors hard dude". People (myself included) were giving a bunch of people who treat AFP like the second coming a hard time in a similar fashion, and one person did accuse someone of buying people to brag about a certain sim *cough* AFP *cough* on this board. So take it with a grain of salt, and you have to admitt it's not like your post was doing anything other than saying "it roxxors" would be nice to actually get some content with people's opinions not just fluff.

Gisbert

@F14: XTR runs fine on my Toshiba Satelite with a P4 Centrino 1.6 and a 32 Geforce Go. It also works an 2 Dells with 32 or 64 MB. i got it to run on a 128 MB geforce 5600 dell that feeds my beamer. gisbert

Gisbert

strange place over here to "proof" oppinions ... anyhow, let me put it this way. i operate my own company in the aviation industry. when i talk about simulation, i have a more technical aspect of approaching the subject. my daily biz is mass movement, handling of cg and controlling all that stuff. i had afp for 12-15 month to suit my hobby. my flying skills are ways behind wc level but i did a lot of work in the field of AFO - and that's where my technical expertise steps in. afp had been nice for a while and it surely is great. if my target is more on the gaming side i wld still go for the afp. but i'm an engineer, my brain is tech, high tech. and that brain is highly satisfied with the reflex. let me give you a very simple example. prop hanging. in the afp i always had the feeling that the aircraft really "hangs". that didn't disturb much at that time, it was fun anyway ... unitl I got my xtr. at the beginng i was puzzled because the it was so much different. so i started to work on the parameters. a friend in england passed a parameter file to me which was edited by one of his club mates, some uk big shot. if you compare these results with a similar model in afp, you will feel a difference that is closer to the technical aspects of what is happening on the field. i'm sure you won't like it becuase it's a little more difficult in xtr and that will frustrate the typical afp user who was pleased with the way it was. now comming back to the example. in afp the cg seems to be moving upwards while prop hanging. it xtr it seems to stay where it was and that's what suits my tech brain because that's something i can understand and recalculate. now it's obvious how easy it was in afp and in my tech brain that's the difference between a simulation and a video game. gisbert

serge1

My Feedback: (1)

I respect your opinion but I don't care about your background. What I care is that I fly since 17 years and I know some stuff about RC planes..... Saying that AFP is a video game to me is totally absurd...And now what, G2 is a gameboy title?

Serge

F14

Gisbert,
thanks for your reply!
I like the way you write your last post but there're are two things that I don't understand, even because my english is not so good.
First, the parameters file: what do you mean when you say "if you compare these results with a similar model in afp, you will feel a difference that is closer to the technical aspects of what is happening on the field" ?
Second, your example: you're talking about the cg but what is easy in afp ?
Thanks again!

Angelo

mupchu

No Serge,

G2 is an Atari2600 cartrige

mupchu

I am at a loss as to what you are talking about here Gisbert. What is a parameter file? Is it some adjustments to the XTR model? I've wondered if hovering (etc) was too easy in AFP, but I am not sure that just because it's hard in XTR doesn;t make it better. What I am interested in here is if the model in XTR handles more like the real thing than AFP, not is it more difficult. Are we talking about differences in how someone tweaked their settings or are what?

Gisbert

serge, don't loose track here. i don't want to change minds, ist just my oppinion. it's no brainwashing action, just telling my impression. you don't like it? fine! furtunately there are plenty of products out there and anybody can select what suits his purpose. just explaining what changed my mind. that may not have any effect on yours. i have a little advantage though, i can switch from one program to the other in seconds. there arn't too many people here being able to do something similar. i sold G2 3 month ago. no, it's not a gameboy title but it just doesn't suit my expectation of a simulation. from my afo biz i'm a little heavy on helicopters and that's nothing the G2 is especially good in. gisbert

Gisbert

the model in xtr consist of 2 files. the mod file contains what you see on the screen, the par file is what contains lots of tech date that tells the program how if behaves aerodynamically. so if you want to share models with anybody else you just mail the 2 kb par file. i got the par file from that uk guy together with 8 very interesting helicopter files. there is a 5-blade feft turning rotor file i was looking for which is just perfect. gisbert

F14

ok, so the more the par file is well-configured the more the model is near to reality, is this right ?
But I'm still trying to understand what do you mean about the cg...

Gisbert

cg is a terme nicely defined in known phisycs. if ya watch prop hanging in afp, you tend to believe that the cg is moving upwards, close to the prop axis. if you do the same in xtr, the cg remains where it was and movements are relative to the cg. at first sight i felt a little uneasy with that setting but the longer i tried the more it became obvious that there is something wrong in afp. i don't judge here, at least not from 17 years experience - really i´don't care if you like it or not. i don't have to sell it, but it seems i'm the only one over here beeing able to verify my impression from direct comparison plus 20 years professional aviation experience plus 25 years model aviation experience. want a video? ask the reflex people, not me. even if i wanted to do a video, it seems you have no idea about that tremendous display quality that makes afp and g2 look like 1989 atari games. no video can give you an impression of what will really happen on your screen. gisbert