RiffRaff

My Feedback: (16)

Group,

I am starting this thread as a place where we can log Realflight G3 bugs and or enhancements that you would like to see fixed or added to an update/patch.

A couple of things that I have noticed right away are:

Invisible bolders on runways?

I mean the ground physics are just not right. I am used to the ground hadling in Reflex XTR and Aerofly Pro and they felt right. With G3 some planes just bounce violently all over the place as if they just ran over a bolder or something. The rate of bounce and damping is just way off too.

Collision detection too sensitive

Sometimes I will hit a tree or object when visually I am not even close to it. Almost like invisible walls exist.

Snap stall is too sensitive

The planes seem to snap way too easily. Even on airplanes that do tend to snap like the Extra 300. I mean. I will be coming in for a landing perfectly and I add just a touch of up elevator and the damned plane snaps onto the runway.

In general the planes just feel a little too twitchy or sensitive.

Am I alone here?

I am sure there are a lot of other things that people are noticing and being a new peice of code we cannot expect it to be perfect. However, hopefully Knife Edge will read these posts and look into them. Maybe if we are lucky, KE will even join in the discussion?

RiffRaff

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

Good List... fortunately, for all there is a good fix, albeit one all you G3 users don't want to here...


* Aerofly Pro *

I have used G2 for a long time - it was OK and served its purpose for beginning training and general practice. Now that I am an experienced flyer, 2G has lousy physics for anything but simple aerobatics. I tried 3G - hated it. Too snappy. Since Realflight would only offer me $50 for my old software, I decided to sell G2 and go with AFP.. best decision I have even made.

AFP (old version =$109) is better than G3 for $199. I also have the new AFP deluxe on order.. should be a real good package - I test flew it in Germany and IT sold me immediately.

DP

BigD

My Feedback: (179)

I feel your pain and frustration. See my post one up from yours in the forum.

Some of the planes operate in the supernatural. I have heard enough people rave about G3 that I wonder what planet we're on here since my experience is anything but positive when it comes to realism or the real thing. The gliders seem to fly great but I'm not a glider pilot. At least they are stable and don't snap at the slightest provocation. The 300 and Yak are ridiculous. My LHS owner who can hover and torque roll like crazy on G2 can't get any aerobatic plane on G3 to behave properly without snapping on him. So far, a big disapointment for a much anticipated release. Inadequate testing and released too soon to make the Christmas list IMHO...

r1derbike

Big D:

Let 'em know how ya' feel with their contact us links (RealFlight and Great Planes)!

Here's my short list:

Cheap controller (had to repair, defective from factory).
Controller must have authorized serial number/registration. G3 inoperational with other USB interfaces if interlink controller goes TU.
Collision detection points beyond physical objects' boundaries.
Break-away physics comical. Parts may spin, flop, fly around and gyrate for quite some time after plane disintegrates. Same for fuse/engine assembly.
Gross gyrations if aircraft rolls over rough ground (this is intermittent/conditional).
Many planes require time-consuming parameter testing/changing to cure tendency to snap.
Very hard to fly 3D. I can hover/torque roll other sims, but G3 gets out-of-shape easily (Other sims too easy? G3 too hard?).
Pass-through effects. Parts or fuse/engine assembly slowly pass-through elevated objects they rest on, after a crash (picnic tables, canopies, etc.)

Personal ratings:

Graphics: 8 out of 10 (active scenery breath-taking on a fast machine and video card.
Flight Physics (including collision/break-away physics): 5 out of 10 (needs work).
Hardware (controller): 2 out of 10, very cheaply made, defective out-of-the-box.

Charles

Torqueroll-Joe

My Feedback: (5)

I have the same feelings as both of you...

After extensive modifying, the Extra 330s 3d will somewhat 3d like a 35 to 40 percent....still needs a lot of more work.

I like the phantom potholes or boulders in the runways!!!???

Most planes are overly snappy...even at base settings!!!

Hovering and torquerolling is very difficult...believe me..I know how to hover and torqueroll...

Harriers are non existent at the stock settings..

I love the invisible object boundries...maybe they have a cloaking device!!!!

Overall, it does not feel anything like the real thing...far from it...and as others have said, my g2 seemed better!!!

It does have some awesome graphics if you computer can handle them.

Just my two cents...

Joseph

RiffRaff

My Feedback: (16)

I feel the same way about the premature release. I suppose it had to do with the Christmas buying season but I wonder if AeroFly Pro Deluxe and Reflex XTR didn't push their hand a little bit? I would bet that some stuffed suit at GP corporate who has never flown an R/C aircraft decided that they needed the product out there to try and head off the migration of G2 owners to AFP and/or XTR?

Heck, I sold my XTR and AFP for this upgrade (check my seller account here at RCU)! Yes, slap me now! What a bonehead move that was. Two days after I loaded G3 I put my pre-order in for AFP deluxe. I am hoping Knife Edge can make good on this sim with some significant updates.

I have to agree, even the original AeroFly Pro is better than G3 not even mentioning Deluxe. The only saving grace this thing has at all is the ability to still use my add-on's 1-5.

What I want to know is who the heck beta tested this thing? Anyone?

I have a feeling that the premature release and all the bad user comments may have just killed this product, Christmas or not. I suppose though there are many folks that will walk into the LHS and buy it without reading any of the user comments. Not everyone is an internet junkie I guess. Half the people I fly with have never heard of AFP or XTR. Humph!

RiffRaff

BigD

My Feedback: (179)

I and others have posted our feelings about the problems on the Knifeedge user board on their site. I assume that the folks at Knifeedge will read them and include fixes to the physics problems in a new downloadable release. All in all, pretty sad in that it doesnt represent a leap forward in flight sim, it's just prettier.

r1derbike

Riff-Raff:

What do you think of the Edge 540 in add-ons 4? That's my favorite plane, but had to modify it extensively, still not done with it.

Charles

RiffRaff

My Feedback: (16)

Never flown an edge before so I really can't comment too much on it.

I increased all the throws to 60 degress in G3 and I really like it. This seems to be one of the better flying planes. I would take this over the Yak based on the G3 representaion, but that doesn't say too much does it? It is still plagued with this incredible snapping problem in G3 though. Man I hope KnifeEdge gets this sorted out and fast!

What an oversight. This software should not have went gold. I guess we get to be the beta testers?


RiffRaff

r1derbike

I would hope all the negative comments don't kill the product, it SHOULD light a fire under KnifeEdge/Great Planes to address problems in the simulator. I have to agree with lack of Beta testing this product, though. I'm sure the 3D capabilities of this sim are easily used and manipulated by TOC class pilots. Perhaps some of them had input into the development of the 3D parameters? Practice makes perfect, I'm getting better at hovering and torque-rolling the Yak and Edge 540, but I've got a long row-to-hoe to get anywhere near competent with the 3D in this sim, compared to others.

It takes time to refine software...this sim should have had a little more "time" under its belt before it was kicked out of the nest.

Charles

RobT

My Feedback: (17)

How are the "Lessons" from Frank Noll? What does he teach are these lessons at least worth anything?

Rob

r1derbike

There's extensive tutoring geared for the beginner. Frank's instruction is helpful for 3D flying. Showing exactly how he enters and performs the maneuvers, and he narrates while he is doing it. A well-rounded instruction set, showing me just how far I have to go yet to become proficient with 3D.

Charles

RobT

My Feedback: (17)

Charles

Specifically what maneuvers does he show you how to do?

Thanks again

Rob

r1derbike

Frank Noll:

Avalanche
Cuban 8
Elevator
Half-Reverse Cuban 8
Harrier
Humpty-Bump
Inverted Spin
Knife-Edge
Lomcevak
Point Rolls
Rolling Circle
Snap Rolls - Full & Half
The Wall
Torque Roll
Waterfall

Jim Bourke:

Basic Aerobatics & Slope Soaring Primer

Jason Schulman:

Basic Instruction & Elementary Aerobatics

******************

I can give Jim's and Jason's specific instruction set, if needed.

Charles

r1derbike

Jason Schulman:

180-Degree Turn
360-Degree Turn
4 Point Roll
Figure 8
Immelman Turn
Landing
Split-S
Straight Flight
Takeoff
Takeoff 2
Touch & Go

Jim Bourke:

Basic Flying Wing Aerobatics:

Straight & Level Flight
The Oval Track
The Loop
The Roll
Inverted Flight
Knife Edge Flight
The 4-Point Roll
The 8-Point Roll
The Snap Roll
Hover Prep
Hovering
A Simple Routine

*************

I hope this helps...conspicuously absent are the rolling harrier and other moves.

Charles

jhimmel

Go to the KnifeEdge discussion page and post your issues.

http://www.gpsoftware.com/discussionboard.htm

(Hit "Enter Main Discussion Board" and look for the three G3 forums)

They already have released two public betas to address certain hardware and software issues (relating to Win98 and certain graphic card problems). The new versions are .327 and .329. These betas are available to all. Look for the "New Public Beta update available" thread in the "G3 Support" discussion group. There is no harm in trying them, because you can easily revert back to your version .313 at any time.

If you go there and post specifics about physics issues, maybe we can see them address those issues sooner rather than later. You could then offer feedback and help guide the beta process.

Jim H.

r1derbike

Thanks Jim...going there now...

Charles

sirrom

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks to everyone in this post for putting their honest feelings about G3 on this board. I was contemplating ordering the G3 but now I think I will go with XTR instead. I just hate the fact that I won't be able to use my G2 add-ons but that is a small price to pay over getting a piece of Crap software.

Patrick.

jaafit

G3 supports all five G2 add-ons. Once installed, the aircraft from your add-ons disks will be converted to use the new G3 physics system.

We are aware of this problem and are working on a fix. You can expect an update for this soon.

Yes, we did in fact involve several world-class pilots in the development of G3. They played an instrumental role both in fine-tuning the physics and improving general usability.

My own impression, after hearing feedback and comparisons, is that it is noticibly harder to fly 3D in G3 than in other sims. Some say that this is not realistic, while others are grateful for the challenge. We did not release this product without carefully considering this balance and making sure that any challenges presented to the pilot were realistic.

We do read these posts and are grateful for the feedback. We are continuously working to make the sim better based on user input. Any improvements and/or fixes will be available through an online update.

aviti

My Feedback: (54)

It's good that Knife Edge is listening to the users. However, I disagree that making planes difficult to 3D will help people learn 3D. Obviously 2 schools of thought here. For example, when you are learning torque rolls, you need a plane that pulls into the correct attitude easily without snapping out. It's annoying to have to gradually go into a full throttle climb and get up super high to avoid snapping. A good 3D plane (real or simulated) can harrier or wall into a low hover and then be ready for torque roll practice. Also, if the plane falls out too easily, you don't have time to learn the proper corrections. On G2, some of the modified planes were lightened up so that they were much easier to practice (example the Cap 2X). But that plane was so floaty that it didn't do other moves correctly.

This isn't to bash, but rather to try and explain what a lot of customers want...hopefully this is welcome criticism.

famousdave

My Feedback: (61)

My 2 cents worth is that KE should have had better beta testing with average fliers like us IN ADDITION to the TOC masters.. perhaps these problems would have been ironed out earlier on. After all, TOC guys are not using this stuff to learn what they already know, they can do this stuff in their sleep.

3D should not be simple to fly on a SIM, it is not simple on the real thing, even with a perfectly set up plane. That said snaps on uplines or entries are unaccaptable because on a well set up plane, they do not occcur.

Another drawback on having the TOC guys doing the testing - with all the combined talent they literally could fly anything and make it look good. I am sure Shulman could 3D a pig if you strapped an engine to its back and gave it some rudimentary wings!

As a former sr exec in a fortune 50 software company, I have seen this mistake all too many times. The "build it and they will come attitude" is DONE and its deadly. KE really needs to add an active "beta" test team - consisting of a mix of a few TOC flyers and large contingent of people like us.. the average flier looking to improve skills. Supply us with hardware, software, and access to their bug website and WE help accelerate the beta process. The only way you learn with software is to get it out there in beta. Of course this costs money and time, but the payment is going to be made one way or another...

So congrats G3 buyers ... you are the beta team, you are paying for their beta process.


My honest opinion is KE knew of the shortcomings, but decided to release anyway as a preemptive strike to AFP's release and to capitalize on the Christmas buying season. This is an all-too common mistake of juniors in the software industry. People are fickle and the remember this crap. It's too bad, as I think the tactic backfired big time. I won't be buying G3.. not now, not ever as I have already moved to AFP. G3 might be a good product eventually, but who is willing to wait? Many are NOT buying G3 now due to all the bugs and the crappy communication regarding upgrades and support and are moving over to AFP in droves, which is exactly what they did not want.

The smartest thing the G3 folks could have done was to NOT announce anything, but wait until it was ready. AFP has a much smaller market share and many did not even know about AFP until all the feces hit the fan here on RCU.

Very narrow minded company in my opinion.

DP

NE0

My Feedback: (9)

I just bought this piece of crap software for my Dad for Christmas, and boy do I regret it. I read of all the issues on these forums and decided I better test it myself before giving it to him... Glad I did!

First off, I now also have to go out and spend at least $250 on a graphics card for him so he can use it. The published system requirements aren't even close to what it really takes!!!!!!! [:@]

Next, after years of flying both the G2 and real RC planes, I find this G3 to be rediculously difficult. Gliders and trainers are OK, but beyond that, all other planes are useless. They all stall and snap 10 times easier than real RC planes, so much so that you are lucky to just get the damn planes to do a single circuit around the field.

This is especially an issue for my Dad. He just learned to fly last year (on the G2 no less) and has a ways to go. He loved flying the G2, but I'm sure he would become frustrated beyond belief with the lousy physics of the G3.

Next, on the G2, he could fly gliders via e-power up to altitude... cut the motor and glide. So far, I've found no way to fly the gliders except slope gliding. This is a big issue cause that's what my Dad flys... gliders. But, he doesn't slope, he flies thermals with a hi-start. Many of the gliders on the G3 (like the Bird of Time) are NOT slope gliders... they are thermal gliders. Yet, there is no way to fly them other than tossing them off a cliff in high wind. Why didn't they add a "hi-start" option, or a "start at x-altitude" option so you can fly thermals with no wind?

Lastly, the manual is an absolute joke. There is NOTHING in the manual on gliders, as well as many other things. But the worst part is that it's an e-manual with no linking options from the Table of Contents. It gives you page numbers but opens in a web browser where the pages aren't numbered!!! Use your head KE... make things more user friendly.

PS: I emailed RealFlight about these issues over a week ago and surprise, surprise... no response!!! Take my advice and don't waste your money on this trash. They got their money and are laughing all the way to the bank. [&o]

NE0

My Feedback: (9)

Oh yeah, another problem. I got the G2 add-ons and they won't install. Installation asks for your RF serial number... there is none on the add-on disks, so I use my G3 S# and it won't take it. What a bite in the *** [:@]

r1derbike

Ne0:

Use this serial number provided by RealFlight for add-ons 1 and 2.



15737246-RF-1842326951

It is okay to use, and pass this around according to RealFlight.

NE0

My Feedback: (9)

Yeah I finally found that and it worked. Unfortunately I found that the planes I bought the Add-ons for were already installed with G3, so I really wasted my money on the Add-ons. Besides, this software has SO MANY bugs, that it's totally useless...

Epileptic planes that go into seizures for no reason
3D planes that snap and/or stall for no reason
Planes exploding into invisible obstacles 100 feet off the ground
All planes feel very heavy and underpowered (feels like excessive gravity in the physics)
Gliders won't float well at all... sink like a rock
Adding powerplants to gliders makes them very unstable and still won't get them to altitude... many just freak out with power added.
Editing planes is way too complicated now... way more settings than a normal person knows how to set up. Simple edits aren't simple any more
No user-friendly way to fly gliders except for sloping
Takes way too much graphics card to get it to run (I'm using a $400+ card / Radeon X800 / and it still isn't smooth).
No indoor flight
EVERYTHING is just too dang difficult compared to G2
Locks up every 20 minutes or so

Obviously rushed to market for the Christmas revenue stream! [:'(]