50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

Well, I was able to fly FSone at my LHS earlier today. Thanks to www.linvillehobbies.com for the time on it! So, I'll attempt to share what I know with ya'll.

First off, I do have G3.5 installed on my computer. I'm not paid, bribed, an employee of, a beta tester, or anything else related to G3 or Great Planes. I've been flying G3 for maybe a year. It, like most "real" sims, has helped my flying skills tremendously. But, how does it stack up to FSone? Second, I do have a bias against the Horizon group. I'm sick of the "You're the first person to have this problem" lines and many other things. So, naturally I don't like FSone. However, my perception of FSone changed by Michael Selig's willingness to answer my tough(at least I thought so) line of questioning. So, I can guarantee you that the kind of people behing FSone are decent people and I would consider buying FSone if I needed a new sim.

So, how does it stack up?

To start off, FSone has doen a great job! It is a pretty realistic sim. There are problems, however, it's a first offering and it just came out, so give it a break. I'm sure it will be fixed very soon. When G3 came out, there were more significant problems, so all's fair there.

In my limited time on FSone, I quickly saw how great of a sim it is. It rivals or surpasses G3.448. I only flew the Edge, so that's all I can speak on. I look at the flight characteristics of planes the most. That's what I'm gifted at and what I like to do.

The Edge flew very well according to my standards. However, the ploblems with it, IMO, is that the spins aren't quite what I like them to be. Maybe it's because I like to fly my real planes without the rate switches, expo, mixing, etc.(yes, I'm a freak)
The rates weren't quite what I like as well. Maybe some IMAC only pilot set the plane up I don't know. The plane seemed to be out of trim though, so probably not.
The CG was too far forward, so it didn't allow for spectacular 3D performance.(3D was good though) Other problems that I found are that in G3.5, you can rip a wing off. In FSone, I tried, but I could only crash the plane. Sometimes, the plane would just cartwheel in one piece.
FSone has this nice feature where the gear flexes, but when I pancaked the plane, those CF gear should have broken off. So, the moral of this story? FSone doesn't crash a plane realistically! (who wants to crash anyways........) Not a major problem there, but the "accurate flexing" isn't so accurate. Realflight will be bringing this out in the next update I believe(post G3.5), so time will tell if they can one up FSone there or not.

One quirky thing about FSone is that the motor doesn't run until you put the throttle up. I found that to feel weird.(could be that I'm just used to G3)

From what little I know about the editor features of FSone, G3 seems to be much more user friendly. However, I can't say this for a fact as I didn't mess in the editor.

The view that I used seemed to be nice, but I like to see the ground.

G3 has a nice multiplayer function where I literally fly with folks from all over the world every day I want. Many top rated pilots fly online with G3 as well, and I can pull up their sticks in real time to see how they fly.(I've learned a lot) From what I can see about FSone, only two people can "play" at one time. I thought FSone had a similar setup to G3, but I guess not. Maybe I missed something. Since I did not experiment with this on FSone, I cannot say for sure what the deal is.

One thing that I didn't like about FSone is the limited selecton of models. All the planes are, I believe, Horizon's. I like 3D and warbirds, but I don't fly that exclusively.

Another thing that I didn't like was the controller. It was really fat and I could not get a good feel on it. Also, the sticks were rounded off on the top. I love the little grips on my G3 transmitter as it replicates the grips on my real transmitter.


So, here's the breakdown as best as I can think about it from my limited trial:

I have thousands of hours on G3
10 hours on G3.5
and 30 minutes on FSone
(just so you know my perspectives)


Spins:
G3 and FSone are about the same
G3.5 is much better

Knife edge:
all the sims are pretty accurate, however G3/G3.5 seems to need more correction.
(this could be because I only flew the FSone Edge)

Fields:
G3.5 has many good fields. G3 has fewer. and FSone has about the same as G3.
The FSone field that I flew at was really good, so I'd say that all the sims seem to be good in this area.

Computer use:
G3 uses a heck of a lot of computer. My vid card is pretty bad, so in G3, I'd get from 15-20 FPS. In G3.5 I get 20-30.
The LHS get's 60-70 normally on G3(occasionally 100) and 90 on FSone.

G3.5 wins the ground handeling issue.
FSone didn't really replicate the grass in the photofield that I flew at. This is much like in G3. G3.5 is a little better as far as rolling on the ground.

Crashes:
FSone's Edge didn't break unless you hit hard enough.
G3, would break a little bit better, but it wasn't realistic.
G3.5 had additional pieces that get scattered on the ground when you crash.

"games"
G3 has more events that you can do and this is really fun in multiplayer.
FSone only has two according to the hickeydo that I'm reading.

Controllers:
G3/G3.5 feels much better to me than the FSone controller does.

planes:
FSone has a limited selection, but that is to be expected with a new sim. Good grief folks! It's only been out for a few days.
G3.5 has more planes with plenty of types of planes.



So, how would I rate FSone? I'd give it an 9.25 out of 10.
I'd rate G3 an 9 and G3.5 a 9.5
Either way you look at it, you can't lose with any of these fine products.
FSone has been out for only a few days, so don't be holding it to G3's standard. It took G3 a while to be a decent sim.
If you want a new sim, I prefer G3 because of all the aformentioned reasons, but give FSone a try. FSone is a pretty darn good sim. Since you're probably not as much of a freak as I am, you'll love FSone a lot. No matter which product you buy, you'll be thrilled with it.(I hope) I hope this sheds some light.

Sincerely,
Chris Todd

Raylon

Nice review 50%. Nice to see an honest opinion. I just can't wait for G3.5 to get out so I can also try it out. According to you FSOne seems to be a pretty decent sim. I'm sure it will only improve over time.

da Rock

G3 has lessons.

Does FSOne have lessons? If so, what're they like.

FSOneDev

Chris,

Nice review. Thanks for posting your opinions and being objective.

Here are a few notes (for more info):

1) You *can* rip a wing off in FS One as a result of aerodynamic loads. Go to Options/Physics and reduce the "strength factor" to a lower value, perhaps something like 0.2. Then, as you fly, if you pull some Gs, you'll be able to break your wings off due to aero loads.

2) If the aircraft cartwheeled without breaking, it is possible that some other user may have selected indestructable aircraft (in Options/General). This prevents crashes from breaking your aircraft.

3) For gear breaking off, the Edge 540 has rather strong landing gear and we currently modeled it to remain intact in crashes. The Funtana 90, however, includes breakable gear. We can make some adjustments after getting user feedback from the customer base. Basically, the technology is in place to support it, but most of our beta testers preferred that gear would stay on the aircraft, so that's what we implemented, with the exception of the F90.

4) As far as having a view that shows the ground is concerned, FS One does include a "ground-biased" view. Go to Options/General and you can change the Primary and Secondary Views (which are controlled with the F1 and F2 keys). Try one of the "Shifted" views.

5) You are correct that many of the aircraft are Horizon models, but not all. Try the Bobcat and MiG-15 jets. The MiG includes polished chrome and you can see reflections.

6) Spins -- It's actually a bit surprising to hear that you felt the spins were lacking in FS One. There is some really advanced aerodynamics going on in FS One and we actually have video of real models flying and doing spins that we compared to the models in FS One. There was excellent match in flight behavior as we did side by side video comparison between the sim and video of actual aircraft.

7) 3D Aerobatics -- What were your thoughts about high-alpha aerobatics, torque rolls, etc.? Most people at the Toledo show felt that FS One was better than other sims in this flight regime.

8) Frame rates -- It's interesting to see 60-70 FPS for G3 and 90 FPS for FS One. Also, keep in mind that you can adjust video/graphics parameters (Options/Graphics2) to adjust performance and model graphical quality to meet your computer's capabilities. FS One will work on a wide range of computers as a result -- for example, users with slower computers can "dial down" their graphics settings so they can still get high frame rates.

9) Ground handling -- Some fields in FS One have more pronounced "bumpy" ground. It's possible that the field you flew at was relatively smooth. The accurate ground handling is very apparent in FS One. For some fields, you can see a very significant difference between grass and pavement, for example, including a bump as the aircraft crosses the grass/pavement edge.

10) Games -- You might want to try some of the games that FS One has to offer and see what you think. The "Bomb Drop" game is a lot of fun. You can drop plastic bombs and fire bottle rockets.

11) Lessons -- FS One does have lessons. Go to Flight Training (under the Single Player listing of the Main Menu). There are some very interesting lessons that are performed by (and narrated by) Mike McConville and Quique Somenzini.

I hope this extra info is helpful.

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks for the compliment and the info!

#2 It depended on how hard I crashed. I was trying to do the Bill Hempel flight with the Edge, and I was trying to rip the wing off on the runway. So I was in knife edge flight. Sometimes it would break, sometimes it wouldn't.

#3 I've seen pics of the real H9 540's gear delaminating. with the kind of hits that I was giving it, it wouldn't break. This, IMO, is not realistic.

#4 That's good! I didn't really play around with that.

#5 Pretty cool! However, I would like to see some more designs that are more than H9's typical offerings. Sport planes are always a favorite of mine. I guess I like to pust their limits.(like torq rolling a Kaos) yes, I'm crazy

#6 Like I said, it's probably because I didn't set the model to fly the way I do. Like I said, I'm a freak.

#7 The "Z" CG was off on the Edge. When I do flight models for G3, that's the key issue that I look at. When I put together a real model airplane, that's what I ajust the most. It will improve the flight characteristics of the plane. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening that much. As far as the 3D moves go, I wasn't able to see the plane well enough from my vantage point. If I was able to see the ground in the sim, that might have helped, but I was also not standing near the screen when I was flying. As far as what I tried, it seemed ok. Just not my setup. The biggest problem for me was the expo. I personally can't handle any. There must have been like 60-80% in the setup.(20% is almost unfliable for me. I like to "feel" the plane)

#8. G3 can be a "pig" when it comes to your computer. G3.5 is a little better though. However, on my personal setup, my vid card is NOT near enough for G3.5, however it runs it anyway.(and pretty good at that)

#9 I was flying at a photofield. G3 has these problems as well. G3.5 has corrected it a little bit though. My concern is that when you drag the wing on pavement, you can drag it.(50grit pass) When you attempt that on grass, you WILL cartwheel. This is an issue that I would like to see fixed in all sims.

#10 I didn't get a chance to try them, and I doubt that I will get to fly FSone for a while. However they do look fun. G3, however, has more games. I suggest that ya'll invent more for the next patch.[8D]

#11 That sounds great! G3 has prerecorded "sessions" as well, or you could ask a top rated pilot on multiplayer how to do something and they will, often times, help you with it. However QQ and Mike Mc doing these "sessions" is a sure winner!



Again I haven't gone over FSone with my fine tooth comb and likely won't until it's old news, so my opinions may not portray the reality of FSone. Thanks you FSOneDev for your helpful info! I really appreciate it!

50%.

dubd

50%plane, how did you get G3 3.5 so soon?

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks Zelatio! You will love G3.5. FSone was pretty good(from my very limited perspective) Not a bad first offering at all as far as flight characteristics and reality are. However, the real issue for me is the editor. If I am able to get the plane to fly exactly the way I want, easily, then it would be a good sim to have. G3.5's editor is really good though and would be very hard to beat.

And for ya'll FSone folks, I'm sure it's great to you, but the real test is if I, a novice to your sim, can do it.


50%

edited to modify comments

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

I have a 100% legal copy

L0stS0ul

They must have made a lot of changes to the G3.5 airplane editor for it to be "user friendly" because looking at the current G3 airplane editor it's not and it's awful.

MSelig

I can comment on a couple of these (edits made to thin out the list)

#7 Here's some info on the airplane editor. Others might find this handy too. In the aircraft selection window, pick an airplane and click "Copy" to make a copy of the airplane. At this point click "Edit" and this will put you into the Aircraft Editor window. You can do a lot here, but I'll fast forward to the Scaling Wizard - the two last items on the page. The two pages look like the first two below.

In this setup you can take a baseline airplane and scale it to any size, say, 120% of the original. Then there are options for the weight, motor and propeller. Auto-scaling can be used and the sim will figure out the new weight, motor, and propeller.

Alternatively, a new wingspan can be given and the weight can be given (not using the auto-scaling on weight). I mention this because people are used to their own airplanes and the main drivers are wing span and weight (or better wing loading that can be given instead of the weight).

At that point click back, and fly. The new plane will be scaled up or down per specs and the physics will be scaled accordingly.

Beyond this quick approach, things can be customized a lot.

The sim includes about 30 baseline airplanes, and from these originals about 70 more airplanes have been created in the Scaling Wizard (as described above). Any of these scaled/resized airplanes can be copied and viewed in the editor to see how things were setup for each. These ~70 scaled airplanes are included in the category: "Scaled: All Airplanes" (see 3rd image below). Based on the forums posts so far, I'm not sure if people have discovered this group.

#2 We have included an airplane like Bill Hempel's Edge. It's in the airplane selection category "Special Interest". We've made one wing pretty weak, so it breaks off in a hurry and then it's fun trying to fly like Bill Hempel did w/ his, all say, famous broken wing landing! (The breakage loads can be changed to stiffen up the wing.)

Michael

mjonson

any heli flyers tried this? - is it as shocking as other posts have mentioned

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks for the info Mselig! Like I said, I will only know if it's good when I try it.

L0stS0ul, if you have any questions on how to do something in G3 please feel free to ask.


Folks, upon reading my opening post this morning, I realized that I may have sold G3.5 short. The fact is, I did not post much information about it. If you have any questions about G3.5, I'd be glad to answer them, but I'm not going to volunteer information. G3.5 is way better than I have implied in my post.


50%

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

From your First post:


From post #7


How can you say it is an issue if you didn't use it????

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

You need to read the rest of my Post #7:


I thought I made it clear that the real test is the editor, and that since I hadn't used FSone's editor, I could not say for sure that it is "a good sim to have."


50%

Paul Grubich

My Feedback: (1)

This will be the third time I have asked this question.

Can you get user made planes for this sim?

Can you edit the planes with as many variables as G3?

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

you can NOT get user created models for FSone yet. I read somewhere that they would be bringing that technology out soon.

From what little I know of the editor, I don't think you have many variables, but again, I don't know.

moorman

You have me a little confused here between your postings. I am one who feels physics should come before all else in a sim and so naturally I focus on feedback regarding physics and 'feel' primarily. I was happy to read this thread and discover such a staunch G3 supporter would give a positive report of fsone....but then I saw the other thread.


...yet in the other thread you reported:

I'm really not trying to be an ass, but what is your *actual* take on the flight modelling? The only LHS here I've seen running fsone here was doing so on a sys that's far from optimal to say the least, and so I'm unable to create my own fair judgement.

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

Moorman,

Very good question!(you're not an *****) When I posted in this thread, I was referring to how accurately FSone depicts a plane flying. In the other thread, I was referring to the poor flight model on the Edge. That's because the Edge was made from more of an IMAC perspective instead of 3D. It flew great for IMAC, but was very poor in 3D flight. from what I saw of FSone, a lot of time was put into it, and they've done an excellent job, but they need help on flight models. That's why I rated FSone a 9.25. It was very accurate. Spins and tailslides weren't all that I hoped to be though which is why I rated G3.5 a 9.5.(those maneuvers are very accurate in G3.5)

In the overall scheme of things, I've heard reports of many problems with FSone. However I think that they'll get it all straightened out. From people that own FSone that I've talked to, FSone will rate a 2-3 out of 5. I would rate G3.5 a 4.5 out of 5. However, FSone does a great job depicting the way a model should fly and will be a great tool for anyone wanting to learn, which is all that matters.(it might even help NightOne )


50%

*EDIT=spelling*

NightOne

and here I resisted joining in and mentioning all of your comments based on only a little bit of time with FSOne

I like the jab though. Gave me a big smile.

I actually have spent zero time on any sim since our last exchanges. I have been flying for real at the field though. Last time out I got some good experience with cross wind landings as we had a very stiff breeze the other day.

Just waiting for FSOne to get out on the Bit Torrents and I will give you my take. I just noticed that they have the 430 version of G3 up now, so I may have to look at that again. (my eval was on 336 I believe)

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

lol I was just teasing. Seriously, I hope that you can find a good sim. I've learned a whole lot on G3 and I wish you every bit of success that I've had and more on whatever sim you get, if you get one.

I'm glad you had a good experience with cross wind landings!

No wonder you didn't like G3! .336 was terrible IMO. The latest is .448 and in a week or so, G3.5 will be out. I highly reccommend G3.5 as it is pretty accurate IMO.(not perfect though)

All the best!
50%

NightOne

50%,

I watched the new video for 3.5 on the RF website and a lot of that stuff is gimmicky, but it does look neat.

They showed off a feature that will let you learn a maneuver one axis at a time and add more as you get better. Is that new to 3.5 or was that in 3.0 also?

Seems like the 3.5 release timing is a swing at FSOne. I wonder if we will see a new AFPD release this week?

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

NightOne,
I haven't seen the video, or played with that feature, but I do know that G3.448 didn't have that. I don't have any idea if we will see a new AFPD any time soon. I've been told that it does exist and this was not confirmed by an AFPD rep. IMO, a lot of the stuff in G3.5 isn't "gimmicky", but is in relation to FSone. FSone does have many features that G3 doesn't have until 3.5 comes out. However, G3.5 is an overall better sim. I seriously want to see FSone succeed. It is a great sim, but it's still in diapers. G3 never really got out of diapers until this last year. Give FSone a year and I'm sure G3(whatever the latest is at the time) and FSone(with all it's update patches) will be fairly even. This compitition is great for you, me, and the rest of the world. However, I don't think I'm ever going to switch to FSone.(Multiplayer is just worth so much more)


50%

NightOne

You'll have to watch the video to see what I was talking about when it came to gimmicky. They show the night flying over the amusement park and make a bunch out of the rollercoaster and ferris wheel moving.

I like the idea of a "burnt" product and there is definitely something to be said for a large support base. I know a lot of the guys at our field have never if heard of a sim outside of G2/G3.

I totally understand the need for a developer of an RC flight sim to be supported by a major distributor but I am still not crazy about the fact that FSOne is exclusive to Horizon/H9 and G3 is exclusive to Hobbico/GP. I'm guessing we'll never see GP planes in FS1 or H9 planes in G3 unless they are user made.

FSOneDev

BTW -- The second FS One patch (which corrects the CG limitation issue reported in another thread) is currently in QA/Test. Pending acceptance by QA, it should be deployed to the FS One web site sometime on 13-OCT-2006.

50%plane

My Feedback: (5)

That's great FSOneDev! In no time FSone will be a very viable sim.

Since I posted my limited review, I've heard from several folks who have the sim and they all had similar thoughts, so this is kindda their review:

1) My controller was broken right out of the box. One of the wires had come loose.
2) It took way too long to load the software- 40+ minutes from start to finish!
3) The things that you can crash into weren't consistent from one field to the next. One that looked really odd was their site on the upper deck of the parking garage. You can take off and fly from this deck, when the aircraft descends to a lower area and comes up, it will crash on the garage floor- from below.

4) The voice-overs on the flight lessons continuously loop -even after the aircraft has landed...it's a
little 'weird' to hear Quique say watch this roll when the airplane isn't moving


I hope this helps ya'll at FSone fix these problems!


All the best!
50%