opjose

Nvidia's nomenclature exposes the chipset used on by the SECOND number of the model ( e.g. 6X00 where the "X" is the significant digit. )

Thus a 6200 is a more powerful card than the 6150, and an 6800 is more powerful than a 7600 card, etc.

That said the 6150's and the 6200 cards use DX7/DX8 compliant hardware.

You may have DX9 installed, but that does NOT make the cards DX7/DX8 compatible.

These cards are sold to recycle older technology video chipsets to consumers who are looking for the lowest price point, without a care for being compliant with latest standards.

The upside is that you can obtain fairly powerful DX10 compatible cards now with a lot of dedicated video memory for under $100.00.

It would be well worth it for you to do so, if your computer is less than 3-4 years old.

johndou

Thanks for clarifying that. Nothing wrong with improving the software when the opportunity presents itself. Then again we all know that KnifeEdge had a deadline to meet for the release of G5.0 and with any deadline there comes sacrifices.

Can I then assume that KE didn't know it was possible to reduce the internet packet load requirements before they released the initial offering of G5.0 to the public? Or is it more likely that they simply didn't have time to make the necassary changes to the software prior to release? After all they advertise that as many as 31 pilots can join in on the online action at one time. Something that even the software general manager himself said was unrealistic with the initial release.

Why do you automatically assume that a comment about a software update is a negative that needs to be defended? If KnifeEdge wasn't able to meet it's commitments with the initial release of G5.0 they've proven in the past that they're more then capable of making the needed changes in a timely manner. Which apparently is what they've done in this case.

da Rock

The lead time for production of the discs for software releases usually causes all developers problems. They've usually got to set a deadline with the disc producers and meet it to keep costs in line. So the discs are produced quite a bit before the advertised release date. Doing that insures that even if the disc producer doesn't meet HIS deadline there will be wiggle room. AND THEN..........

Good developers don't turn off the lights and go home the minute the release version is frozen for production. Almost always bugs show up too late in the testing to make the freeze date. With pc's hardware constantly changing and the almost infinite combinations of hardware/software in PC's possible, it's to be expected there will be little crap that shows up too late for the freeze.

Take a look at all the updates that come with disclosure of contents. You'll see the ones immediately after a version release will have the most fixes in them. They're always minor stuff, but usually a fair number. Then look at all the following updates. They'll have just a few additional ones. Those following updates will have all the ones from the preceeding update plus a couple. To the uninformed, all of the updates look big and get bigger, but in fact, it's standard practice for each update to include all previous to make it easier for the user.

The updates following 4.5 show exactly that. A number of little cleanups on the first update following the release, and then timely updates that include all changes preceeding. It's really nice of a developer to make updates available as they are done.

da Rock

You know, none of us know their motives at all. Experience in software development does suggest their actions are a benefit to their customers, whatever their motives. They produce new stuff and make their advertised deadlines, and offer updates as soon as available, and give continuing support in a timely manner.

We're lucky to have more than one sim that's doing their best to continue providing good products and support to back 'em. [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

opjose

Yet prior to the release we had well over 20+ players in multiplayer games, and this with some players coming in via slower connections.

31 seemed like a lot, but over fast connections it was entirely possible.

Let me answer that by asking why do "some" people automatically take a a POSITIVE ( such as an enhancement or upgrade ) and resort to putting a negative spin on it?

E.g. the insinuation that there was something "wrong" to begin with, and then the update followed as a result of this.


The above is a "case in point".

Which "commitments" were not met?


Again there's that negative insinuation.

Why "needed changes" as opposed to "additional enhancements" for instance?

Such things help to formulate opinions but others who may not be well informed.

dbcisco

I have to agree that making corrections in a timely matter is correct. They issued around a dozen patches in about six months trying to fix G4.5. My question is why didn't they wait six months and release the fixed version. Seems like they always make the Xmas season for release regardless of the completeness of the program. I am not trying to be negative but it sure looks like they have a habit of putting sales deadlines above quality. Just my perception you may see an eagle where I see a vulture. I still think G4 is better than G4.5 even when I finally got G4.5 running I went back to G4. Then I sold it because I used AFPD more. We don't all have to love Realflight.

johndou

Possible? Maybe ... Probable? Maybe not. Who cares? When the software developer advises against it where's the point in discussing it?
KE came up with a "change" to their software to reduce the internet packet load requirements the day after the software was released. A change that they felt was needed and one that you felt needed to be defended. They either just discovered this new ability and decided to incorporate it into their software or they didn't have time to incorporate it before their deadline and missed a commitment.


There are always at least two different ways to see an issue. You prefer to see the glass half full when it comes to RealFlight and KnifeEdge Software. I see the glass half empty ... I don't see fifteen version changes in six months as something positive. RealFlights issues with G4.5 did not give me a positive feeling.



As I stated earlier, depending on whether or not this was something new that was recently discovered (which is highly unlikely) or something that was left off because of deadline issues (as I suspect) then they missed a commitment.



"Needed changes" as opposed to ''additional enhancements'' simply because I don't see this version change as something that was recently found. Instead I believe that it was left off because of schedule and as such becomes a "needed change". Of course that's just my opinion based on KnifeEdges past history, the timing of this version change and what was advertised as part of the software package.

rcdude-K

I think everyone is missing the whole picture. Newer versions or updates usually do one of a couple of things FIX or ENHANCE. The problem is that when something does not work properly, that is when everyone gets told about it on forums such as this.
Therefore the product is percieved to be broken and needs to be "FIXED". Hence any updates are considered to be a FIX rather than an ENHANCEMENT, Enhancements may also be includedin the update.
Those enhancements have a tendency to go unoticed due to the problem with the broken software theat needs to be fixed.
You can do all the beta testing you want.

You will never have a product work 100% all of the time. Remember, These products were designed by imperfect beings in an imperfect world to work on imperfect hardware.
ARE YOU PERFECT 100% OF THE TIME?
Or do you make mistakes and have to make adjustments? er updates!

dbcisco

Updates, yes. Version change, not always.
The only reason companies release "New and Improved" is a marketing tool to get you to buy. The only reason a software company puts out a new version is to stay in business.
A great example is Microsoft. They issue a new operating system every three years because their business model is such that they have to get everyone in the world to buy a new OS from them every three years (wther they need it or not). So far MS has failed that two OSes in a row. My prediction (and many others in the industry) believe that if Win7 doesn't take off, they have one more shot and then they will go belly-up.
Back to RF. They have to keep getting money from existing customers or they to will fail.
No mystery, just simple business. Been that way in several industries for hundreds (if not thousands) of years.

jzrf6c

dbciso,
I totally disagree with you. Some people are just plane negative and uninformed. Have you ever heard of New Math, Space travel, new medical break thoughts? These are all the “like� reasons we "Software" developers make new releases. Additionally, I could go on and on talking about such things as the internet improvements due to technological brake through or other hardware advances and how we want to take advantage of that advance. But, I don't believe I alone can change another person’s perception be it negative or otherwise.

johndou

Good point. In the case of RealFlight's G4.5 15 version changes in six months, you can see yourself from the KnifeEdge News and Announcements page that 90% of the changes made to G4.5 were done to "fix" issues or to fulfill the advertised features of the product.

So, is G5.0 a FIX or an ENHANCEMENT to the existing RealFlight G4.5? Let's take a look at what RealFlight is advertising as their "features" for RF G.0;

Fly with other RealFlight pilots using Multiplayer.
RealFlight G5: Now with Online Combat!
Pilot’s License
Targeting System
Easier editing with more options!
On-Board Cameras
Moveable Camera Angles
First Person Video (FPV)
Improved Cockpit Effects

RealFlight doesn't mention that these new "Events" replaced the existing "Events" already in the program. R/C events such as Autorotation/Deadstick; Freestyle; Limbo; Pylon Racing and Spot Landing were replaced with the "combat" events. R/C events that test your R/C skills and help improve your flying ability were replaced by "in cockpit" video game events - with "Improved Cockpit Effects".

No mention of any improvements to their physics programming or to the actual R/C flying features. Although, to be fair, according to jbourke on the KnifeEdge site both the heli and airplane flying physics were tweaked a bit.

We can debate all day the FIX vs ENHANCEMENT issue. But, in this case the new RealFlight G5.0 is not what I would call a "big" improvement or even something worth a complete new product. Having said that I do believe that for those people who own G3.X the $80.00 upgrade cost is well worth it - assuming that your computer has the system requirements to handle the new program.

opjose

Yes what is the point indeed, except that YOU brought it up!

And if you read this properly you would KNOW that he is talking about the lowest bandwidth users.

We had 20 people running over a standard cable connection prior to release and there was easily enough bandwidth for the rest. At least three were using slower DSL connections.

Some people were coming in via high latency connections ( e.g. Hawaii & Australia ! ).

There you go again. No "commitment" was missed that you have named.

Yes, which should be duly noted by anyone reading the posts.

You should.

Better that than "abandoned" developement ( as in FSOne ) or VERY LONG delays between updates and fixes as in AFDP.

A company that can adapt and make changes quickly tends to be healthy.


"Depending" or "Something", that is highly unsubstantive.

You said it, it's your "opinion".

opjose

I would sure hope so!

If they did it for free, they would be out of work and we would see no further upgrades, patches, releases or enhancements.


And new customers as well.

Yes. Nothing nefarious about all of this.

I guess Aerofly is also going to "keep getting money" from me too, as they have just come out with a new version.

johndou

Yep, my opinion.

We're to assume that the General Manager of KnifeEdge Software, Jim Bourke, was talking about "lowest bandwidth users" when he states "typical DSL users"? If, as you say, there was no issue getting 20 people on one session of "multiplayer" in G4.5 and now G5 has been improved in that area then why the need for a new version change to reduce the internet packet load requirements?

I notice that you don't mention that any of your comments are opinion. Your defense of a new version change released the day after product goes out to the public is based on facts only?

The version change, according to you, was an "enhancement" or "upgrade" and not some sort of "fix". You say that as if you have some sort of insider information ... you wouldn't happen to be a shill for RealFlight and/or KnifeEdge software would you? Given your past association with KnifeEdge as a Moderator wouldn't have any impact on your comments here ... ?

opjose

You're equating an improvement with a "need". That is a non-sequitor.


As far as I know I have not given an opinion, rather what we actually saw and experienced.


I would ask if you work for one of their competitors, since you seem active in finding ways to cast a bad light on their product?

A "bathroom sink" response?

Sheez.

da Rock

OK, accusing each other of being shills..........................


Let's stick to the subject and leave stuff like that untyped.

A suggestion: when your next sentence is going to contain your opponents name, don't type the sentence. It's most certainly not about RC models or simulators, is it.

rc_sportpilot

I just received my G5 upgrade (from 3.5) from Tower Hobbies this week. I cannot install this on my CPU. Searching the real flight discussion boards I found the following CPU compatibility issue posted by Ryan Douglas:

The following CPUs are affected:
Intel Pentium III or older
AMD Athlon (650 MHz – 1400 MHz)
AMD Athlon XP (1500+ – 3200+)
AMD Duron (600 MHz – 1800 MHz)
AMD Sempron (2000+ – 3300+)
AMD Athlon MP (1000 MHz – 3000+)
AMD Geode NX (667 MHz – 2200 MHz)

If you have these CPUs, G5 will not install. They are working the issue, but there is no work around. Buyer beware.

opjose

There should be a fix for the installer problem within the next week.

The SETUP.EXE launcher is to blame.

dbcisco

If Chevy made a car and it had been recalled a dozen times in six months, also it wouldn't run on the gas from several gas stations. Would you say that is a good car and would you buy one or recommend it? I think I would be telling everyone to avoid it like the plague. Even if they told me this years model is "new and improved", esp. if within a week of its release they already had a recall or two in the works.

Raylon

I had G3.5. Just purchased the full version G5, just because I respect KE and all the hard work they put into RealFlight. I am not sure what the whole argument about all the patches are. I am a dedicated PC gamer, and when a company doesn't put out patches for it's software, people get angry. And let's face it, there isn't a single piece of software out there that doesn't have some bugs. Saying that there is a perfect piece of software out there is ridiculous. Everything needs a patch or two. And KE is simply awesome because they have fixes and "enhancements" or whatever your refer to them as, on a regular basis. To me, this represents KE as a success as a software company.

I love G5 and it is a great upgrade from G3.5. When G6 comes out, I will gladly hand my money over to KE. Somebody stated earlier that KE released new software a year later and were charging for it. Oh my lord, a company charging for new software? What madness! Yet somehow people hand over money for the new version of Madden for years on end, or for the latest OS from Microsoft. Silly world.

dbcisco

I have lots of software that has been working fine on several different computer models without any patches.
Do you know how many software companies there are who refuse to release software until it has been tested on thousands of machines by thousands of users before the final release instead of letting the new buyers find all the bugs? (BTW, all those beta testers do it for free)
The only reason RF and others get away with it is because they have little competition.
Not everyone puts unfinished products on the "Black Friday" shelves.

rc_sportpilot

Many thanks KE for the quick response and fix. I look forward to the patch.

dbcisco

How do you knows this? Is this info on the KE's site or forum?
Searched their sites and came up with nothing.

jessiej

Don't you just hate it that non business owners have to depend on business owners to give them jobs.

dbcisco

No mention of "a few weeks".

From KE:
" Compatibility issue with older CPUs
We have just discovered a compatibility issue between G5 and older CPU models. It manifests as a crash in setup.exe (not setup2.exe/Installer2) as soon as the G5 disk is inserted into the drive. Note that it appears similar to the DEP-related issue where Installer2 crashes immediately after inserting the G5 disk, but it is a completely different problem.

We are working on a fix. In the meantime there is no workaround except installing on a different computer.

The following CPUs are affected:
Intel Pentium III or older
AMD Athlon (650 MHz – 1400 MHz)
AMD Athlon XP (1500+ – 3200+)
AMD Duron (600 MHz – 1800 MHz)
AMD Sempron (2000+ – 3300+)
AMD Athlon MP (1000 MHz – 3000+)
AMD Geode NX (667 MHz – 2200 MHz)"