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Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

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Old 02-19-2011, 03:26 PM
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AraTidwell
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Default Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

Ok guys I just typed a novel and internet exploder crashed on me so here is the short version. Previously I went into very much detail of how I adjusted the engine...

I prior bought fuel at Model Works in Tulsa, Wildcat 15% both synthetic and synthetic/castor. I got this fuel for $15 and some change. To save a drive I bought a gallon of Omega 15% at Hobby Town in Ft.Smith AR at $20.99 about $5 more. I didn't figure there would be much difference... Boy was I wrong...

Bottom line with Wildcat 15% I got a peak of 14,600rpm and flew backed off to 14,400rpm with a smoke trail and no sizzle w/ a spit test. Put the Omega 15% in my motor, engine ran richer with same settings to the point I had to warm the engine with the glow adapter on. With several tries (skipping the details) I could only peak to 14,100rpm with reliable running at 13,800rpm failing a spit sizzle test however the airplane still flew good in the air. I also lost a lot of throttle response and I expirmented with 1/2 turn rich to 1/2 turn lean and settled on a slightly lean low end with the new fuel which provided OK but lacking response on the ground and decent response in the air. I was able to perform all manuvers without leaning the engine, even though I felt judging by a lighter smoke trail I was running a little leaner than I do with Wildcat

Bottom line is I lost 600 usable RPM with the new fuel. I really didn't think I would notice the different? Any similar experiences?
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:30 PM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

If you knew how to tune an engine!!!!
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Old 02-19-2011, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

I do, I had a novel written up proving it.
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Old 02-19-2011, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ernie34

If you knew how to tune an engine!!!!
Did that make you feel better about yourself?
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Old 02-19-2011, 04:56 PM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

found my original post To save a trip to Tulsa where I normally buy Wildcat 15% at Model Works (for $15 and some change) I bought a gallon of Omega 15% at Hobbytown Ft.Smith AR for $20.99 about 5 bucks more. I drained all the remaining Wildcat out of my tank and proceded to fuel my Aeroworks ProX260 prfofile w/ OS 55ax APC 12x4 and Evolution/Jett performance exhaust. I then fueled with the Omega 15% and started my engine. I had a tach handy and reved to full throttle after briefly warming up. The engine seemed to run richer and required the glow adapter on to rev through the midrange. I could sense the engine running several thousand RPM low and verified with the tach. I quickly leaned up and expected to peak soon but I went right past my peak into the "flat spot" where I quickly adjusted smoky rich again to cool the engine from the brief lean setting. I wound out peaking around 13,800rpm. I quit the engine, let it cool and started again more carefully adjusting the engine where I managed to peak out at 14,100rpm settling for a run setting of around 13,800rpm.


On Wildcat engine is capable of initally peaking at 14,600rpm or reliably running a couple hundred RPM less on the ground. I can tune for 14,400rpm leaving a medium smoke trail and a engine that does not sizzle to the "spit test".

With the Omega even running at 13,800rpm the engine fails the spit test (I get sizzle) but I decided oh well and ran it anyway, but before I flew I had to take care of the low end which turned out to be a big mess. I went from 1/2 turn rich to 1/2 turn lean and could not get any lightening quick throttle response from it like I had been getting. I decided to fly with a slightly rich position which I figured was closer to dead on and this did not work well in the air so I leaned the low end a little bit and got OK but not excellent response on the ground and a better response in the air. The airplane still leaves a mild smoke trail but runs hot according to the sizzle test but no manuvers leaned out in the air... so I flew a couple tanks only varying the high end during touch and goes by +/- 1 click. 1 click too rich she drug on power or hesitated to peak in the air 1 click too lean ran fine but I didn't want to risk it so in my +/- 1 click range (-1, 0, +1) I ran in the middle leaving a mild smoke trail and good power consistant power in the air.

I ran both the Wildcat all synthetic and synthetic/castor blend with the same results. The Omega 15% is a synthetic/castor blend.

I really didn't think fuel would make so much of a different, anyone else have a similar result?
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:12 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

This happends, me and a friend once tested out alot of different fuels on a engine and prop set-up, and peaked rpms varied by several hundred rpm`s even though the carb was fine tuned for each fuel.

We actually found a15% fuel that delivered almost the same power as another 30% fuel we had, in that specific engine and prop that is.
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:59 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

Yes, I've had a similar experience...

Several years ago...around '05...just for the heck of it, I did an experiment.
I had been running Powermaster 10% Sport fuel exclusively...(18% oil, synth / castor blend )

Just to try a change, out of curiosity, (and the fact that it was a couple bucks a gal. cheaper ) I bought a case of 10% Omega...and immediately noticed that the engines ran significantly richer, with all other things remaining the same. Same basic weather conditions, and I had to lean both high and low speed needles. My engines also were down a bit on power. I didn't tach 'em, but I would estimate around a few hundred r.p.m.

After switching back to Powermaster, I had to open the needles back to where they were, and I got the r.p.m.'s back...

I'm not bad mouthing Omega...it's a good fuel...
I think fuel choice is a matter of personal preference, and availability...(not necessarily in that order )

FWIW the engines involved were a TT .46 Pro, an Evolution .46 and a Webra .50 GT.

Bottom line...I preferred the power of Powermaster...the only real advantage of the Omega was better fuel economy.
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:23 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

Another crazy thing, I tried to find the Omega fuel website and couldn't find such! I was going to email them and complain. Sounds like some Witch's brew stuff!
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:52 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more


Quote:
ORIGINAL: proptop


I'm not bad mouthing Omega...it's a good fuel...
I think fuel choice is a matter of personal preference, and availability...(not necessarily in that order )

FWIW the engines involved were a TT .46 Pro, an Evolution .46 and a Webra .50 GT.

Bottom line...I preferred the power of Powermaster...the only real advantage of the Omega was better fuel economy.

For me it isn't a good fuel, not only did I lose my power I lost my throttle response.. And Omega for me is more than $5/gal more expensive so it just isn't working out in any direction!
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:47 PM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

Just to help you find the "Witches brew" website it's at "Morgan Fuels" http://www.morganfuel.com/ and per the website they are the #1 selling fuels in the world. I have run Wildcat, CoolPower, Omega, Magnum, Powermaster, Riches Brew, Sig, Byrons, Coopers, Fox, Cox and others I can't remember at this time. I can't see a dimes worth of difference between any as long as I use fuel of comparable nitro percentage. I HAVE caught a hobby shop switching up the amount of nitro in order to make a better profit so that is a very very good reason to get to know your hobby shop and stick with him whether it be an online outfit or a brick and mortar store. The switch is pretty easy to do and at the volumes they sell quite profitable.
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Old 07-23-2011, 08:15 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Jezmo
Just to help you find the ''Witches brew'' website it's at ''Morgan Fuels'' http://www.morganfuel.com/ and per the website they are the #1 selling fuels in the world. I have run Wildcat, CoolPower, Omega, Magnum, Powermaster, Riches Brew, Sig, Byrons, Coopers, Fox, Cox and others I can't remember at this time. I can't see a dimes worth of difference between any as long as I use fuel of comparable nitro percentage. I HAVE caught a hobby shop switching up the amount of nitro in order to make a better profit so that is a very very good reason to get to know your hobby shop and stick with him whether it be an online outfit or a brick and mortar store. The switch is pretty easy to do and at the volumes they sell quite profitable.
Not much of a website, though.. just the splash page thus far.

I've been told their percentages are based on weight. 15% nitro by weight is equivalent to 11% nitro by volume. If you compare a fuel based on weight percents with a fuel based on volume percents, you're comparing apples to oranges.

I always add oil to CoolPower. And especially to Byron.

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Old 07-24-2011, 06:26 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

Contact them, you were told wrong. There is a supplier that uses weight but it isn't Morgan.
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Old 07-24-2011, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

I'd heard Byron was the other one, but then, I haven't actually contacted either. I'm just careful to add castor oil to either if I plan on using it in my F2D engines or in my Coxes or in Fox Stunts. For my "RC" sport engines (they aren't "RC" any more), anything works.

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Old 07-24-2011, 03:24 PM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

Yep, that's the one. I really like the Byron's fuels though. It seems to make great power in my machines and I have zero complaints. I guess that's not saying much because as mentioned in the previous post, all of the fuels I've used have run great except for the occasional "bad" batch. Even that's rare though. Have a good one.
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Old 07-24-2011, 08:27 PM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

I don't think Byron (or any of Omega's products, for that matter) is "bad fuel", it's just that one should be aware of what one is buying. With Byron, just buy "15%" instead of 10%, and add oil if you think there isn't enough of it.

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Old 07-25-2011, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

This can happen on the same bottle of fuel. Sounds like it might have been hotter and/or more humid when you ran the Omega. The hotter ambient air accounts for the engine running hotter, and the thinner air for the lower RPM. The oil can make a differance as well. Was both fuels fresh?
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Old 07-25-2011, 12:42 PM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

I have been running Sig Champion 10% Nitro, 20% oil, half castor, half synthetic, as my fuel of choice for some years. I have twice flown engines on another brand said to be the same mix as the Sig Champion. The needle settings (which I ordinarlly do not fiddle with) required large changes, and I thought the power was down. So I am convinced there are differences in brands of fuel said to be the same.
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:06 PM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

Any time you switch fuels and the nitro content changes, you'll need to reset the needle. Higher nitro means you have to open the needle. Also, if the viscosity of the fuel changes because of differences in the type and amount of oils used, you'll need to reset the needle. No surprise that when you switch brands of fuel or even when switching between Cool Power and Omega, you'll need to reset the needle.
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:23 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

I have run all the fuels previously mentioned and have even mixed my own. I use Wildcat for several reasons. First of all they have no problem telling you what they use for oil which makes it simple to add oil and/or castor as needed for the older engines. Morgan and some of the others told me their oils and additives were proprietary. You have to be careful when adding to these fuels as the unknown additives and/or oils may not be compatible. One of the other reasons is that Wildcat uses a head of nitrogen over the stored fuel before it is dispensed into the jugs. This occludes air and the associated moisture from getting into the fuel.

That being said I have noticed very little difference in performance between fresh fuels. Fresh being the key. I think most fuel associated concerns have to do more with fuel that has been sitting on a shelf for extended periods of time. The jugs themselves I have been told are hydroscopic and will over time allow the fuel to absorb moisture which even in small amounts can affect the performance. I always store mine in the original cardboard box as it keeps out the light and the cardboard acts like desiccant absorbing moisture. I also try and keep my fuel at the ambient temp of the outside air where I will be flying. Nothing worse then large changes in temp to cause condensation inside the fuel bottle.

Finding a supply of fresh fuel is critical if you wish to have max performance. I am not sure but I have noticed that Wildcat seems to get darker in color the older it gets. Guys at the field with fuel a year old tend to have fuel noticeably darker then my gallons of fresh fuel.

I also make my own aluminum fuel bottle caps complete with a Viton o-ring to seal the fuel bottle. Once the cap goes on it stays there until empty and looping the small piece of fuel tubing keeps the jug sealed when not being used.

Dennis
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:28 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

Prop, I use WildCat for slightly different reason than you do, in 22 years of owning and flying Saitos & Enyas I've not had to replace any Saito or Enya parts other than a Saito 1.50 cylinder I ham fisted and an Enya 1.55 rocker arm that split when I loosened the nut. Yes, when I loosened it. I can't include the YS and Lasers I owned in this because I only kept the YS about 3 years and the Lasers about one year. I had an OS .52 for about one year also.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:45 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

Glad I found this thread as I was questioning the Wildcat fuel due to it being lessor in price than other fuels.   Tower has Wildcat 15% which I need for my OS .52, and it has the 18% lube required.  Now that I have read what people have seen with it, I added it to my wish list.  The LHS stock cool power which is only 17% lube, and since I am not one to be adding things and messing around, I just want to fill up and fly.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:13 AM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

I am currently using Wildcat and am just about through with the four cases I bought back at the beginning of summer. It is the the Premium blend having both synthetic and castor oils and a blend is what has been used in all of my engines since synthetics first came on the market. Even when using a full synthetic like Morgan's CoolPower I have added a small amount castor. Like Hobbsy, I have never had engine problems using fuels with some castor in the mix. I have an OS 40FSR that is well over 30 years old and still runs as good as day one. It's one of the best engines I've ever owned. I have Saitos that are more than 12 years old running just as good as new. They have been run on fuel containing castor since first started. If I buy a jug from the LHS that doesn't contain castor I add a couple of percent to help protect the bearings from rust as well as protect against an accidental lean run. The lean runs don't happen often since I've been doing this for over 45 years (you learn where the pitfalls are) but you never know when a fuel line might develope a small pinhole causing the unexpected lean run.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: Wildcat to Omega, lost 500rpm and more

I had a similiar experience when switching from Red Max to Cool Power. The Cool Power was down on power.
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