RC Fuels Nitromethane, Castor Oil, Synthetic, heli fuel, 4 stroke, etc...Fuel Q&A is here!

canola oil

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Old 03-22-2011, 11:42 AM
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moe7404
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Default canola oil

has anyone used canola oil with methanol in a nitro engine? iam going to guess it might not work with nitro.
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:55 PM
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Default RE: canola oil

Even if it will mix with methanol and nitromethane, Canola oil cannot handle the heat. From what I've read, it burns somewhere between 450 and 550 F.
Castor oil supposedly does not burn until it is over 800 degrees.
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:23 PM
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Use it on your salad if you can't find olive oil.
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Old 03-22-2011, 05:46 PM
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Default RE: canola oil

thanks carrellh i know someone had the right info. see there i saved burning up an engine. thanks
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:45 PM
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Default RE: canola oil

As carrellh indicated, just because they're both vegetable oils doesn't mean that any vegetable oil acts the same as castor. Castor is totally unique in that as it gets hotter it begins to form into new types of lubricant so still gives some protection to the engine even under extreme conditions. It's also the very best ARO you can get although after long term storage (+6 months?) it needs to be softened with a strong solvent like acetone to free up the engine.
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Old 03-24-2011, 12:02 PM
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Default RE: canola oil

yep as all ways you cats are right. i looked up all the diff veg oils most "but castor"
smoke at about 400-600. the castor oil at 800-900. but i did learn how to fry chicken. thanks guys
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: canola oil

Aside from the polymerization of castor oil being a huge benefit, I think a huge part has to do with the oil's viscosity. Castor oil is about as thick as 40wt. Any of your cooking oils are more like water. Not good for a model engine.

Sometimes, you just gotta stick with what works. If something else worked, we'd know about it.
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:30 AM
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Default RE: canola oil

A good grade of olive oil works as a substitute for castor oil. You want light or clear color extra virgin first press olive oil. The best is all pure and not a blend of various olive oils from around the world.  Olive oil has similar traits to castor oil. It works in diesel and glow engines. Several people have run it in diesel engines, and a number of people have used it in model RC car glow engines.

The reason you don't see more people using olive oil in their engines is that we have way too many crooks who mislabel poor grades as being higher quality, lie about its origins, and doing other nefarious things with olive oil to boost their profits. Especially here in the USA, you just don't know what you get for olive oil. Too many companies are cheating with it.

Medicinal castor oil is the same as engine grade castor oil. But you have to be sure they didn't add sugar or flavoring to it first, you want the plain pure kind. Sometimes the cost at the pharmacy for castor oil is less than from the hobby shop, but sometimes it costs more though.


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Old 03-25-2011, 10:08 AM
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Peanut oil is thicker than most other vegetable oils.  Often used so thay you can fry at higher temperatures.  Has anyone tried peanut oil?

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Old 03-25-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: earlwb

A good grade of olive oil works as a substitute for castor oil. You want light or clear color extra virgin first press olive oil. The best is all pure and not a blend of various olive oils from around the world. Olive oil has similar traits to castor oil. It works in diesel and glow engines. Several people have run it in diesel engines, and a number of people have used it in model RC car glow engines.

The reason you don't see more people using olive oil in their engines is that we have way too many crooks who mislabel poor grades as being higher quality, lie about its origins, and doing other nefarious things with olive oil to boost their profits. Especially here in the USA, you just don't know what you get for olive oil. Too many companies are cheating with it.

Medicinal castor oil is the same as engine grade castor oil. But you have to be sure they didn't add sugar or flavoring to it first, you want the plain pure kind. Sometimes the cost at the pharmacy for castor oil is less than from the hobby shop, but sometimes it costs more though.


I've used castor oil from walgreens. It was pure with nothing added but was $5 for 4oz.

Evidently, the castor bean crop in India was not good this year, so the oil is more expensive according to the guy at FHS Oils. They sell castor for $30 a gallon. Regardless, I won't chance my engine investment to any other oil, personally.
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:10 PM
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Default RE: canola oil

bacon grease works in emergencies, and smells good too just dont use it when its cold outside
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:40 AM
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Not sure if that is a good reason as they are also grown in Brazil and the USA.

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Old 05-04-2011, 10:33 PM
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Default RE: canola oil

a gallon of castor at sigmfg.com is 23 bucks, a gallon of oilve or canola is about that...why not just use what is designed for our engines
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:53 AM
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Canola at $23 a gallon??
You need to change grocery stores
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Old 06-11-2011, 06:54 AM
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Default RE: canola oil

If you can get good quality real extra virgin olive oil i have found it to be just as good as castor oil especially when making diesel fuel.
I have never made glow fuel but i have added olive oil to it for higher oil content in my 1/2a engines.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:49 AM
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Default RE: canola oil

Canola and Olive oil do not mix methanol, ethanol, or a combination of the two which is a shame because I'd be willing to do some testing.

However Olive oil and Canola will mix with kerosene. I have also used it to make model diesel fuel before I bought a gallon of castor from Fox Manufacturing.com. Worked fine.
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Old 06-11-2011, 05:39 PM
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At the moment I am all out of vegie and olive oil, however I have two gallon jugs of SIG AA castor. Can use it to make dinner? I need to fry some chicken and make a salad tonight will I be okay?
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:04 PM
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Default RE: canola oil

Quote:
I need to fry some chicken and make a salad tonight will I be okay?
did you add the kerosene yet?
Cause that can lead to a funky taste in your chicken and possibly death... but definitely a funky taste [:'(]
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcdude7



At the moment I am all out of vegie and olive oil, however I have two gallon jugs of SIG AA castor. Can use it to make dinner? I need to fry some chicken and make a salad tonight will I be okay?
I'm sure you could use it, but its a laxative so you might need a Immodium dessert.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:03 PM
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Default RE: canola oil

What makes castor oil unique is the ability to dissolve in methanol. The reason is that ricinoleic acid (there's three in each castor oil molecule, attached to a glycerine molecule) has a hydroxyl (OH) group halfway down the chain. This makes it soluble in alcohols.

I remember some combat fliers trying out soybean oil in fuel for their Nelson .15s years ago. Didn't work. Kept quitting, taters on the plug elements.

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Old 07-23-2011, 06:41 AM
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Some years ago a speed flier told me Wesson brand oil would dissolve in alcohol and that it burned like synthetics do. I don't have any idea what Wesson oil was at the time, back in the 1970's.
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Old 08-06-2011, 07:16 PM
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Default RE: canola oil

Just noticed this thread.  Wesson oil looks like it was cottonseed oil up until 2009.  Now it is canola/corn/sunflower/whatever is cheaper.  Maybe cottonseed is the ticket but is unobtainable now?  I wonder  if someone else sells the cottonseed oil.  Maybe it is better than synthetic or could even be what is being used as synthetic by oil manufacturers? :-)  I don't know the burning /boiling temp. of it.  Maybe it could be mixed with peanut oil or synthetic or caster to keep the price down and use ether or acetone to help idle and acceleration a bit as a nitro substitute.  (not more power though) Some commercial brands used soybean oil in the 1970's.  I never liked it because it ran hotter than Klotz and caster, and left an ugly stain on the motors and smelled like something was burning. I still have a Cox Conquest and a VA .049 with a nasty stain from this oil.. I may have forgotten but I think Ucon or Ukon was the brand.    I often wondered if mixing gasoline or some other mineral based fuel with methanol in just enough quantity to mix with a two stroke motor oil in maybe a 40:1 mixture would mix and lubricate sufficiently without rod bearings.  The motors wouldn't have to be called slimers then.  Any ideas  or experimenter/rocket scientists want to try? Or know the smoking temp. of cottonseed oil and a manufacturer of it?  Wesson had a process of refining it so it wouldn't smell.  Maybe that is the same as degummed castor oil as an end product.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: aspeed

Just noticed this thread. Wesson oil looks like it was cottonseed oil up until 2009. Now it is canola/corn/sunflower/whatever is cheaper. Maybe cottonseed is the ticket but is unobtainable now? I wonder if someone else sells the cottonseed oil. Maybe it is better than synthetic or could even be what is being used as synthetic by oil manufacturers? :-) I don't know the burning /boiling temp. of it. Maybe it could be mixed with peanut oil or synthetic or caster to keep the price down and use ether or acetone to help idle and acceleration a bit as a nitro substitute. (not more power though) Some commercial brands used soybean oil in the 1970's. I never liked it because it ran hotter than Klotz and caster, and left an ugly stain on the motors and smelled like something was burning. I still have a Cox Conquest and a VA .049 with a nasty stain from this oil.. I may have forgotten but I think Ucon or Ukon was the brand. I often wondered if mixing gasoline or some other mineral based fuel with methanol in just enough quantity to mix with a two stroke motor oil in maybe a 40:1 mixture would mix and lubricate sufficiently without rod bearings. The motors wouldn't have to be called slimers then. Any ideas or experimenter/rocket scientists want to try? Or know the smoking temp. of cottonseed oil and a manufacturer of it? Wesson had a process of refining it so it wouldn't smell. Maybe that is the same as degummed castor oil as an end product.
I'm doubtful any vegetable oil other than castor oil will dissolve readily in methanol in appreciable amounts - the reason was, as I stated earlier, castor oil is the only one that contains ricinoleic acid. This is the only vegetable fatty acid that has a -OH group in the middle of the carbon chain. This gives it an affinity to alcohols (which, incidentally, are defined as molecules with one or more -OH groups). That said, I suppose I should actually try the experiment rather than be dogmatic about it. I have heard of people experimenting (and using) soybean oil in racing fuels where mileage was important, but I've heard the results were less than stellar. Never heard of it ever being used in a commercial brand, though, but of course I haven't heard everything, either.

UCON oils are something else altogether - they are synthetic "oils" which belong to a group of chemicals called polyalkylene glycols (usually abbreviated as PAG). They are good for use in glow fuels mainly because they dissolve readily in methanol. The UCON oils are PAGs originally sold by Union Carbide, but now by DOW chemicals. The one mostly used by home brewers was LB-625, but there is a whole range of them, with different viscosities. They are used in a huge number of applications - some are water soluble and used in the food industry, for instance, and some are used as compressor fluid in airconditioners (I know of a airconditioner repairman in Chicago who uses the stuff - it's got fluorescent dye in it, by the way - to mix fuel). And I'm willing to bet a sawbuck for a donut that most "synthetic oils" used in commercial model fuels - and this will include Klotz - use PAGs (and most likely one of the UCON LB fluids) as a base. PAGs have a couple of big drawbacks, which have been discussed ad infinitum here - they absorb water (and were thus deemed undesirable as automotive lubricants back when they were tested in trucks in Alaska in WWII), and they don't protect your engine from a lean run like castor oil does.

Iskandar

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Old 08-07-2011, 09:53 AM
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Hey iskandar - if any of the available plant derived oils would mix with methanol, do you think it would smell like French fries comin out of the muffler?
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:35 PM
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The biodiesel I have seen used in a diesel VW Rabbit smells like french fries.  It is burning it though, I think it is because it is a 4 stroke.  A two stroke spits it out before it burns. (hopefully)  I have seen biodiesel (vegetable oil) used on youtube with a model diesel, but they mixed it with castor oil or synthetic too I think. I would guess it smelled like french fries. MMM french fries.
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