RC Fuels Nitromethane, Castor Oil, Synthetic, heli fuel, 4 stroke, etc...Fuel Q&A is here!

E85 might be E70 ???

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Old 05-22-2011, 09:42 AM
  #1
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Default E85 might be E70 ???

Just put some "E85" in a can to experiment with,
and the pump had a sticker that said the minimum ethanol content was 70%.
What the heck is that?
I was hoping to blend some E85 with castor, and maybe a some glow fuel to help catalyst action,
but now I got no idea what % of alcohol(eth) I got in my E85 can before I even mess with it
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Just put some ''E85'' in a can to experiment with,
and the pump had a sticker that said the minimum ethanol content was 70%.
What the heck is that?
I was hoping to blend some E85 with castor, and maybe a some glow fuel to help catalyst action,
but now I got no idea what % of alcohol(eth) I got in my E85 can before I even mess with it
Its gonna be a crapshoot when buying E85 as like you said its posted "minimum 70%". I'm sure the blend will change some with each refill of the station's tanks. One can might have 89% and the next may be 72%. I think you're just going to have to experiment some and know that each time you buy E85 that your ratios may have to change some.
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

My black rubber stoppers are not going to be happy to hear that.

Its one thing to use wishful thinking
to figure by the time the 15% Gasoline was cut with oil and glow, it'd be more like just 5-8% gas.
But with it starting as 30% gas,
them lil rubber stoppers will voice their resentment in the form of swelling, gunking, & disintegration
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:36 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

My black rubber stoppers are not going to be happy to hear that.

Its one thing to use wishful thinking
to figure by the time the 15% Gasoline was cut with oil and glow, it'd be more like just 5-8% gas.
But with it starting as 30% gas,
them lil rubber stoppers will voice their resentment in the form of swelling, gunking, & disintegration
I think thats the risk you have to take when doing a gas/glow mix. Not much different than the o-rings, diaphragms, and gaskets used in gas engines wont stand up to alchol and vice vera. I've never ran gas/glow yet, but now that I have a ringed engine I may try it. I was going to try some other alcohols too.
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:45 PM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

Well, using E85 in a glow engine seems to have varying results for folks.
Some cant run it without keeping the plug "lit",
but last fall I ran a new TT GS40 on E85 + 16% walmart castor.
I only got to play with like 3 runs with it before packing it up for the winter, and now I got soem Kart castor and want to get back to experimenting to figure out what how to run it good... like how to set the carb (like NOT using WOT, best run was at 70% throttle)

I was hoping to dilute down the gas content of the E85 with some glow,
which would also help with the 'glow' catalyst ignition situation.

sheesh,
I'm trying to drop the gas content
and the station might be increasing the gas content twofold[:@]
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:49 PM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

Here was my E85 adventure. Worked fine. I think a gallon glow fuel combined with a gallon of E85 (with 20% castor oil or some other oil) would work best. Or maybe add some bottles of HEET to the E85, then ya wouldn't need a battery for the glow plug. HEET is pretty cheap at Wal-Mart.

Did you know that Klean-Strip SLX denatured alcohol is half methanol half ethanol? Works great in all of my two stroke glows with a hot glow plug. That is what I have been using for a while now. I bought a gallon of castor from FOX and mix it at 25% with the denatured alcohol. Price per gallon with the castoris still like $17, but now all I have to is go to hardware store.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZX99SOzij4[/youtube]
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:57 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/ethanol/e85_specs.html

In cold climates, E85 contains 30% gasoline to improve starting during winter months.

No big deal and common knowledge.
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:32 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

San Antonio is a far cry from Fargo in regards to gettin cold.
Its late May in TExas, just how hot does it have to get before I can get the full 85% eth?

You say its no big deal,
but my black rubber parts disagree... they didnt like the amount of gas in the E85 I had last fall,
and the plan is to mix it down to end up with a little gas left in it as we can get away with.
So starting with twice as much is a pain.

Like Kero said,
I plan to mix up some E85 16% castor, which ran the engine last fall,
and blend that with regular glow fuel at 1:1 or maybe 2 (E85/16oil) + 1 (Glow10/18).
The less gas content I start with, the less gas my rubber parts have to put up with
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:42 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

Ask your fuel station. Some of them actually know what they sell. Some have no clue.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:57 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

Make your own e-85 with methanol. Buy pure gasoline and mixwith denatured alcohol.The various brands of denatured alcohol must show how much entanol and methanol they have. The problem is finding pure gas, but I bet pump gas doesn't vary from 10% ethanol much during the summer and cannot vary as widely as E85 anyway.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

but I am not trying to get Ethanol With Gas in it

I am trying to get Ethanol,
and I am willing to put up with a bit of gas in my Ethanol
if that means I can get if for $3.30 at a local pump,
rather than paying $7-10 at a hardware store for gasless ethanol (that may or maynot have other junk in it)

while there are many ways to get Ethanol,
none are as easy on the purse as getting E85 (but there is that pesky gasoline lurking in it)

I looked at getting actual Methanol instead of Ethanol first,
but while racing methanol itself wasnt too expensive
it was the charge for the nice blue 5gal can that sent the price north of $7/gal
... so again we see E85 coming in at half the price


Having a little gasoline in the final mix is not the end of the world,but
the littler the betterer
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:58 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???



Check this out:

http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html

E85 is never E85

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Old 05-23-2011, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

Neat link Kero

Quote:
Summer Blend: Class 1 (min 79% ethanol)
Spring/Fall Blend: Class 2 (min 74% ethanol)
Winter Blend: Class 3 (min 70% ethanol)
I stopped by the station and asked what was actually in the tank, 70 or 85 or what.
We all expect the twinkie at the counter to not know, thats ok,
and she took the correct action when I asked
... she yelled over her shoulder to get somebody that might know.

When we explained that the E85 has different seasonal blends
the manager type person tried to figure it out
but quickly realized she had no idea what I was talking about.
So she then did the reasonable thing, and called a hard workin guy over.

That is where the story heads south.

The workin guy didnt know,
but he wasnt going to let that stop him from making me accept his BS on the matter.
He just kept repeating that E85 is 70% or better,
and depleted his vocabulary finding new ways to say 70% or better,
regardless of me mentioning the summer and winter blends.

So in the end, I had to leave the station being told that E85 is ALWAYS "70% Or Better",
and nobody in Texas gets anything different.
[:@]


note:
the link Kero gave lists south Texas as NEVER should get the winter 70% blend [&:]
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:11 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

but I am not trying to get Ethanol With Gas in it

I am trying to get Ethanol,
and I am willing to put up with a bit of gas in my Ethanol
if that means I can get if for $3.30 at a local pump,
rather than paying $7-10 at a hardware store for gasless ethanol (that may or maynot have other junk in it)

while there are many ways to get Ethanol,
none are as easy on the purse as getting E85 (but there is that pesky gasoline lurking in it)

I looked at getting actual Methanol instead of Ethanol first,
but while racing methanol itself wasnt too expensive
it was the charge for the nice blue 5gal can that sent the price north of $7/gal
... so again we see E85 coming in at half the price


Having a little gasoline in the final mix is not the end of the world,but
the littler the betterer
Will they refill the blue can for less?
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Old 05-28-2011, 06:00 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

My black rubber stoppers are not going to be happy to hear that.

Its one thing to use wishful thinking
to figure by the time the 15% Gasoline was cut with oil and glow, it'd be more like just 5-8% gas.
But with it starting as 30% gas,
them lil rubber stoppers will voice their resentment in the form of swelling, gunking, & disintegration


switch over to stopperless tanks
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:23 PM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

Egad, why didnt I think of that.
I use a film canister tank for my 049,
I cant believe I didnt think to ditch the standard tank and make a bottle myself.

Looks like I need to buy a soda in a bottle smaller than 2ltr for a change .
Wonder if the soldering-iron-hole trick works on them like it does on the film canister tank.



Finally got to mix up some E85 Castor20 (4part E85 +1part Castor),
strapped a gasproof tank ontop of my plane with some rubberbands,
and ran the ST gs40 on it.
Warmed up on 10% glow regular tank, 13k on 11x5mas without really trying to hard,
then switched the lines to top tank, riched some, and fired up the E85o20:
Top was ok but mid was funky, had to work its way up the rpms,
and even when tuned for a good run high end it was still making like a garden hose of oil out the pipe,
but it hit mid 12k, so that wasnt too bad at all.

It seemed to run better in the air than on the ground,
uhhh, easier to spool up the 11x5 prop???
Should I drop to a smaller prop (back to 10x6) and see if that helps the mid range?

Gonna try less oil next, like 5:1 for a batch of E85o16.
After that will come blending it with some regular glow
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

Egad, why didnt I think of that.
I use a film canister tank for my 049,
I cant believe I didnt think to ditch the standard tank and make a bottle myself.

Looks like I need to buy a soda in a bottle smaller than 2ltr for a change .
Wonder if the soldering-iron-hole trick works on them like it does on the film canister tank.
lol thats what happens when you get too wrapped up in AMA politics [8D]
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:25 AM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

DANG , i knew there was someone out there using denatured alk . what do you mix for oil in it?
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Old 05-29-2011, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

wow
I thought I was doing the engine a favor by running a lil rich with the E85o20,
DONT DO THAT.
I bough a quality 4oz measuring cup, and tried the 20% castor again-
This time I really tuned the top end, and gave it 2 clicks lean from where it stopped increasing RPM,
and the mid cleaned right up.
Same top end, the mid transitioned smooth & quick, and the idle could run lower. Its leaner than what I would set glow to, but with 20% all castor it was handling it no problem. Oddly, those 2 'too-lean' clicks did practically nothing to the top rpm. If it wasnt gusting to 40 today I would have flown it. Oh, btw, I strapped the test tank to the side of the plane even with the regular tank, like some kind of really thick profile plane [8D], and that probably helped too.

I mixed a few more 5oz runs to be sure it was a repeatable set of data, no problems.

I tried switching from 11x5 to 10x6, but that REALLY didnt tolerate any richness in the midrange at all. I had to tune the mid and work up a few clicks of throttle at a time, tuning it as I went. Eventually it spooled up, but ran really hot and then became surgey... Forget the 10x6, tried 11x6: Ran almost the same rpm as the 11x5 and clean like the 11x5.

So,
1 part Castor + 4part E85, dont run rich, swing above average prop.


I ordered a few different glow plugs, will check them out and report by plug name next time.
The 20% oil is running fine so I dont know if I will even try the 15%. I kinda like having the high oil in there if I am tuning lean-ish.


Oh, on a side note,
our club break-in bench is probably weatherproofed for the next 20 years
with all the oil I sprayed on it with these tests [8D]
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:06 PM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KeroPower

Here was my E85 adventure. Worked fine. I think a gallon glow fuel combined with a gallon of E85 (with 20% castor oil or some other oil) would work best. Or maybe add some bottles of HEET to the E85, then ya wouldn't need a battery for the glow plug. HEET is pretty cheap at Wal-Mart.

Did you know that Klean-Strip SLX denatured alcohol is half methanol half ethanol? Works great in all of my two stroke glows with a hot glow plug. That is what I have been using for a while now. I bought a gallon of castor from FOX and mix it at 25% with the denatured alcohol. Price per gallon with the castor is still like $17, but now all I have to is go to hardware store.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZX99SOzij4[/youtube]

do you have any video running on kleanstrip?
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???



I have not made any videos running the Klean Strip and castor. But I will be happy to make one.

I have two planes currently that I have been running on denatured alcohol. One is powered by a Fox .40 bushed R/C and the other is powered by an OS .25 LA R/C. Which one would you like to see running/flying?

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Old 05-30-2011, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

Went ahead and made a video of the Fox with a hat cam:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCaqCVEd-YA[/youtube]
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:33 PM
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Yes the mid range is a bit rich. The Fox really needs a HOT LONG plug and a tweak or two on the low speed needle. I was using an OS #6.

I think it needs a HOT LONG plug because I tried a Fox Miracle plug a while ago (which is a long medium heat plug) and the mid range improved greatly, but it did not idle as well and the top end was less than when I used the OS plug.

So the combination of long and hot should fix everything.

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Old 05-30-2011, 04:36 PM
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Note that ONLY KLEAN STRIP S-L-K DENATURED ALCOHOL works since it is HALF METHANOL. Sunny Side Denatured Alcohol is 86% ETHANOL and does NOT work without adding a few bottles of HEET which is methanol.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:12 PM
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Default RE: E85 might be E70 ???

Quote:
Sunny Side Denatured Alcohol is 86% ETHANOL and does NOT work without adding
Thats the part that has me scratchin my head,
why MY E85 tests are running fine with no methanol
while most folks know/experienced ethanol not firing a glow plug.

About the only thing I can figure is the gasoline is the only difference.
Maybe the 15%gas dont DIRECTLY help the glowplug fire,
but we know gas will run hotter than alcohol, and my engine was indeed running hotter.
Maybe the hotter runs give the lil extra oomph the plug needs to fire on Ethanol decently


It looks like we used the same engine for our E85 tests, ST gs40 right?
So why does mine run while yours needed the plug constantly lit / added methanol
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