Register

If this is your first visit, please click the Sign Up now button to begin the process of creating your account so you can begin posting on our forums! The Sign Up process will only take up about a minute of two of your time.

Results 1 to 19 of 19

  1. #1
    jimmyjames213's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    L
    Posts
    1,655
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    I am mixing my fuel and was curious if coleman camp fuel (white gas) would improve cold weather starting? Normally white gas is used as a starter fluid for glows but I am curious if anyone has tried a white gas mix. That being said if no one has would anyone like results posted?
    Anything worth doing.............is worth overdoing

  2. #2

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    , MD
    Posts
    154
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    I once ran an OS .25 LA with an OS #6 plug on Coleman Fuel and 20% Klotz Super Techniplate. No methanol what so ever. The glow plug stayed lit when the power was taken away and the little OS ran pretty well. Throttled nicely. The idle was kind of squirrely though.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    p, ANDORRA
    Posts
    283
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    Colemans fuel is a type of gasoline fuel. For stove for cooking its burn cleanly leaving no soot
    However compared to modern gasoline fuels it turns into vapor gas very quickly so it can create a explosion similar to a gas explosion from a naked flame in closed space like your garage .
    In the early automobile days the gasoline fuels they used were primitive compared today mostly a type of Colmans white gas fuel and due to its volatility to create explosions in closed spaces like garages means the word GAS was the logical it was sorta more like GAS than a safer liquid fuel like diesel or paraffin.

    Modern gasoline take fuels like Colmans and change the molecules into more complex molecules and that raises the octane and reduces it ability to turn into vapor gas so quickly.
    They also add Toulene a type of paint stripper to the modern gasoline fuels (sub note Modern cars can run on 100% Toulene ).
    The Toulene agent has a very high Octane eg it it is more reluctant to ignite from compression allowing the engines in automobiles have higher compression ratios typically 10:1
    Original old fashioned cars like the model T Ford using Colemans type fuels with low octane as low as 70 had to use very low compression ratios as low as 6:1
    model T cars 3000 CC motor could only make ~20 BHP~.
    A modern engine 3000cc could easily make more than 100BHP but it needs fuels that have high octane . Low compression equals low power.
    With model glow engines there are several issues to consider .The first issue is that gasoline fuels burn very hot compared to methanol fuels ( Methanol fuel consumption is often twice as much as gasoline fuels and the extra volume of fuel helps cools the engines) .
    Gasoline motor often have large cooling fins . Colemans fuels burn even hotter again than gasoline fuels so there is more risks to over heat model engines
    The other issues to consider is that Colemans fuels could risk pre detonation (ping )as most model glow engine are compression ratios of about 10:1 or higher . This ping in time can burn holes in the top of pistons.
    Other issues is that model fuels contain lubricating oil.these oils come in two types such as a type suitable to mix with gasoline and another type suitable to mix with methanol. Gasoline type oils don't generally mix well with methanol fuels but some methanol oils can mix ok with gasoline. However methanol oils are not cheap compared to gasoline suitable lubrication oils.
    The addition of extra lubrication oils can change the octane of the model fuels and that shows up with the fuel less prone to ping .
    I suspect that well worn sports glow motors with a unusaul high oil content lubricating oil in a Colmans fuel mix in cool weather could operate
    however some glow engines with this mix might require a glow driver to keep the glow going.
    However I suspect that gas throttle control issues would show up as the glow fuel jet needle is be made for twice as much fuel flow . This could make controlling a reduced fuel flow a sensitive to air fuel ratios problem.
    Changing the jet to gasoline types might cure that problem
    There is one model pane that crossed the Atlantic ocean using ~2.5 Kgs of Colemans fuel and a very modified 10cc four stroke glow motor . The engine had a spark ignition retro fitted to it
    The result was the plane doing a average speed of 55MPH was using about 2 onze of fuel per hour as compared to typical glow sports engine of the same type could use more than 20 onze per hour . This engine also used a large 14 inch prop and the engine was run at low RPM speeds
    It rather looks like the only real advantage to using Colemans fuel is for long duration duration flying events with highly modified engines big props where steady state engine running at low speeds is the requirements.
    Hopefully that explains where the issues are
    Balsaeater

  4. #4
    Sport_Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Acworth, GA
    Posts
    13,443
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    Gasoline is not made from naptha.  They are both processed from the same batch of crude at the same time.  Naptha is simply heavier than fuel oil, diesel, turbine fuel, kerosene, but heavier than avgas and mogas.  Naptha for thinners and possiblty Colemans is further refined for various reasons, but not mde from gasoline.
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  5. #5
    jimmyjames213's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    L
    Posts
    1,655
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    im not talking about running the thing on 100% coleman fuel....i was just thinking about useing 5% or so (useing the volity of the fuel to get my engines going in cold weather) the compression ratio should not drop and hopefully 5% will not cause the oil to fall out of solution.
    Anything worth doing.............is worth overdoing

  6. #6
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Shelby, OH
    Posts
    37,030
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    The vapor pressure of Colman fuel must be greater than gasoline because if you try to run gasoline in a lantern not made for gasoline, you will have a hard time keeping it going. The fire will keep going out.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sperry, OK
    Posts
    529
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting


    ORIGINAL: jimmyjames213

    im not talking about running the thing on 100% coleman fuel....i was just thinking about useing 5% or so (useing the volity of the fuel to get my engines going in cold weather) the compression ratio should not drop and hopefully 5% will not cause the oil to fall out of solution.
    Jimmy.....just add about 1oz of acetone per gallon of regular glow fuel and that will help with the cold starting and idle.
    Forget the Coleman fuel or any petro in a glow engine.
    Forget Mixing Your Own Fuel....It's Easy But No Longer Needed!

  8. #8

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    p, ANDORRA
    Posts
    283
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    There is always the ether ( dimythalether i think ) solution for cold starting .This ether fuel is often used with automobiles comes in spray can .In cold weather the pressurized can delivers the ether fuel into the air intake of the car. Once the car starts there is no need for any extra ether fuel.A can of this sprayed into the air intake should kick start any cold engine .However expect the odd backfire as ether is very gaseous fuel. Ether mixed into fuel would be expensive and it evaporates quickly . Ask the old hands who control line diesel engines in the past .
    Adding small amounts of Colmans or acetone or ether to glow fuel might not hurt the engine but may not improve the cold engine start .
    I know that ether mixes with castor oil mixed with paraffin but have no information on how it would mix with synthetic oil.
    Castor oil makes cold starting difficult as it gets gummy at low temperatures and can fall out of suspension in the fuel cans at low temperatures .

    Hope that helps

    Balaseater

  9. #9
    Moderator w8ye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Shelby, OH
    Posts
    37,030
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    Until I was up in my 20's and more than 40 yrs ago, I was crazy enough to fly in weather well below freezing. We had to start the engines by hand flipping.

    We used a Zippo lighter fluid squirt can for a primer. The engines would hit off first flip with the lighter fluid.

    We used regular 25% castor oil glow fuel back then.

    I did discover that flying control line planes in a snow storm was not the wisest thing I ever tried. The snow flakes hitting on the steel wires creates static electricity. I mean like a spark plug. Remember Ben Franklin and his kite?

    In more recent times, I discovered that when flying R/C in the rain that you need to keep your transmitter covered so water doesn't get in the gimbals and cause a uncontrollable crash. You can hear the rain drops hitting on the Monokote while the plane is up in the air over the sound of the engine.
    Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....
    Recipient, Mangledhand award August 2008
    Club Saito Member #7
    Original AMA #31261

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    wichita, KS
    Posts
    541
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    iam not a fuel expert. but for starting easily l look at the flash point. nitromethane 95F, methyl alcohol 52F, acetone 0F, naptha 100-107 F, gasoline -45F. thats why top fuel cars use gasoline to start nitro fuel engines. so which would you want to use for daily driving? methyl alcohol, or gasoline?

  11. #11
    Sport_Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Acworth, GA
    Posts
    13,443
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting



    Petroleam Naptha flash point is well below 0 degrees F. But above that of gasoline. So it would be a good primer fuel in cold weather.

    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    london, UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    10
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    test

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    lake in the Hills, IL
    Posts
    356
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    In the winter the guys at our field all use a squirt of lighter fluid to start our glow engines. No need to put any in the fuel itself as you can easily limit air flow over the engine to keep it running at peak operating temp.

    Poor fuels and high power = ugly piston top damage!
    Oops!

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Capron, IL
    Posts
    3,366
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    Lighter Fliud = Colemans. Pretty much the same thing, both are made from Naptha.
    SIG Brotherhood # 3
    Mustang Brotherhood # 6
    Corsair Brotherhood # 86
    Kadet Brotherhood # 24
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/B-17e-...18159428244374

  15. #15
    BJ64's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    1,200
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    Interesting reading.

    "Colemans" down here is Propane, or Propane+Butane "power mix".

    I've used it to start gas (Propane) start jet Turbines. The "gas" is used for it's fast light-off and to get things nice and glowing - then the Kerosene (paraffin, JetFuel...whatever) ramps in until the Turbine is finally running on 'Kero'.

    The more modern engines these days are Kero start i.e. the glow section has a Kero heater to vapourize the fuel and initiate/sustain combustion in the burner can. Commercial RC Turbine technology has come a long way in the last 10 years or so

    BJ
    Ahhhh...I love the smell Kero in the mornings....

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    no city, AL
    Posts
    2,613
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting


    ORIGINAL: w8ye



    I did discover that flying control line planes in a snow storm was not the wisest thing I ever tried.* The snow flakes hitting on the steel wires creates static electricity. I mean like a spark plug. Remember Ben Franklin and his kite?
    Long ago, I was flying a C/L combat match at a contest as a thunderstorm approached. Suddenly my opponent and I began to get jolts of electricity through the handles. It didn't take us long to declare a draw and belly the planes in.

    Jess


  17. #17
    Sport_Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Acworth, GA
    Posts
    13,443
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    I prefer Karo for cooking candy and deserts!
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur| Malaysia, MALAYSIA
    Posts
    579
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    Umm.. we're talking glow engines, right? Not ignition?

    If so, a squirt of Ronson lighter fluid in the intake does wonders for cold weather starting. We used this for the Frozen Finger Flying Festival - the annual first-weekend-of-the-year Combat contest they hold annualy in Chicago.

    Iskandar

  19. #19
    Sport_Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Acworth, GA
    Posts
    13,443
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: coleman camp fuel (white gas) to help winter starting

    Umm.. we're talking glow engines, right? Not ignition?
    We arn't talking about camp site cooking? Sorry!
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:32 PM.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.