Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
#1
Thread Starter
Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
Besides klotz, what other synthetic oils available in the US will mix with methanol and are of good quality? I've entertained the idea of testing some different fuel mixes for my RC cars and my ringed aero engines.
#2
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RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
Motul Micro should be available in the U.S., other than that I guess you have to order from Europe. There are several brands available over here.
#3
Senior Member
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
Synthetic jet turbine oils such as BP2380 and Aeroshell are miscible (capable of being mixed; specifically : capable of mixing in any ratio without separation of two phases)...and are widely available at airports. These are not cheap however. If you can find any Poly-Alkylated glycols such as used to be available from Union Carbide...these were excellent oils for glow engines. Klotz has been used successfully for many years in glow fuels and work well. Several of the popular glow fuels use Klotz as the main lubricant. Years ago I tried several synthetic car and motorcycle oils such as Mobil 1 and Amsoil. These will not mix with methanol. From the standpoint of cost and availability, my advice is to use Klotz.
Best Regards
JC (FASSTFLIER)
Best Regards
JC (FASSTFLIER)
#5
Thread Starter
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
I've been using all castor for a little over a year and I've had my engines running far better than ever before. They tune like a dream and the exhaust smells nicer. I was merely looking to experiment a little, but probably not a lot since klotz is 2-3 times the cost of my SIG castor.
If it costs more than $7-8/quart it isn't cost effective for me to use much of it. I would probably use 85% castor and 15% synthetic only for carbon control.
If it costs more than $7-8/quart it isn't cost effective for me to use much of it. I would probably use 85% castor and 15% synthetic only for carbon control.
#7
Thread Starter
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
ORIGINAL: JCINTEXAS
What quantity of Sig castor do you purchase?
What is the price?
JC
What quantity of Sig castor do you purchase?
What is the price?
JC
I think I paid $23 + $11 shipping.
#8
Senior Member
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
Unless you are getting your methanol and nitro for free...seems like it would be cheaper to buy regular commercial brand fuel rather than brew your own.
JC
JC
#9
Thread Starter
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
ORIGINAL: JCINTEXAS
Unless you are getting your methanol and nitro for free...seems like it would be cheaper to buy regular commercial brand fuel rather than brew your own.
JC
Unless you are getting your methanol and nitro for free...seems like it would be cheaper to buy regular commercial brand fuel rather than brew your own.
JC
Adding synthetic oil to the mix and my cost jumps $2-3 a gallon. For me it's a huge cost savings. I burn 3-5 gallons a season in my cars and airboats.
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RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
There are 2 Ester based synthetics that mix with Methanol.
I use SPL avenger in my glow engines (http://www.splube.com).
There is also Redline Alcohol Pre-Mix 2-stroke oil (http://www.redlineoil.com). I have a gallon of it but have not yet tried it.
Then there are the more common PAG based oils such as coolpower and klotz.
I use SPL avenger in my glow engines (http://www.splube.com).
There is also Redline Alcohol Pre-Mix 2-stroke oil (http://www.redlineoil.com). I have a gallon of it but have not yet tried it.
Then there are the more common PAG based oils such as coolpower and klotz.
#11
Thread Starter
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
So for a layman like myself, what's the difference between ester and pag based oils? Wouldn't you want ester based over pag?
#12
Senior Member
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
For those looking for a source of PAG oil try the friendly neighborhood auto parts. They sell PAG oil for A/C systems in several grades of viscosity.
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RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
http://www.robertskartshop.com/p/oil_engine/Thor-L.html , i use this, i would not call it "high quality" but the engines run fine on a 50/50% synthetic/castor mix, costs me about 7 bucks a gallon for 0% nitro
it mixes with metho and stays mixed for months, my only complaint is it smells weird/bad
it mixes with metho and stays mixed for months, my only complaint is it smells weird/bad
#14
Thread Starter
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
ORIGINAL: Jezmo
For those looking for a source of PAG oil try the friendly neighborhood auto parts. They sell PAG oil for A/C systems in several grades of viscosity.
For those looking for a source of PAG oil try the friendly neighborhood auto parts. They sell PAG oil for A/C systems in several grades of viscosity.
I'm curious to experiment, but I dont want to use the wrong oil and burn my engine up.
#15
Senior Member
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
Do I order 4 gallons at a time for $25 a gallon, add standard shipping, and add hazmat fees. Now I'm at $35 a gallon which is what I would pay for a gallon of 5/20 sig fuel at the LHS. Adding synthetic oil to the mix and my cost jumps $2-3 a gallon. For me it's a huge cost savings. I burn 3-5 gallons a season in my cars and airboats.
ORIGINAL: JCINTEXAS
Unless you are getting your methanol and nitro for free...seems like it would be cheaper to buy regular commercial brand fuel rather than brew your own.
JC
Unless you are getting your methanol and nitro for free...seems like it would be cheaper to buy regular commercial brand fuel rather than brew your own.
JC
I just got off the phone W/SIG. There is NO HAZMAT fee for gallons of KLOTZ!
I checked because I am experimenting W/E85 in my Saito 4 strokes & want to use KLOTZ.
I would not think that castor or other oils would differ.
BTW: Order 6 gallons & a few other items to total $150 & get free shipping.
Then your castor oil will only cost you $22.99 a gallon.
#16
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
Here in the USA they use some of the various Poly-Alkylated glycols synthetic oils in the model airplane fuel. Union Carbide and someone else made or make it. They never really tried to improve on the oil formula as its primary purpose is for commercial refridgeration systems. I assume one can get the oil from many sources that repair or cater to the commercial refridgeration systems and repair.
Someone many years ago discovered it mixed with methanol and that started the interested and its use in glow fuel. But the synthetic oil has a lower temperature than castor oil at which it breaks down into other substances that actually burn and provide more power. Thus when you lean out the engine, it suddenly gets a quick boost in power and then promptly destroys itself as the oil stops lubricating it.
Now in Europe they did develop some better synthetic oils, but no one really imports them into the USA, as the existing oils work fine in the air conditioning systems, and are lower in cost. So they have no interest in importing the oil. Our model airplane fuel interests and amounts used barely interest the suppliers.
Is it cheaper to buy from Klotz or Sig to get Klotz oils?
Someone many years ago discovered it mixed with methanol and that started the interested and its use in glow fuel. But the synthetic oil has a lower temperature than castor oil at which it breaks down into other substances that actually burn and provide more power. Thus when you lean out the engine, it suddenly gets a quick boost in power and then promptly destroys itself as the oil stops lubricating it.
Now in Europe they did develop some better synthetic oils, but no one really imports them into the USA, as the existing oils work fine in the air conditioning systems, and are lower in cost. So they have no interest in importing the oil. Our model airplane fuel interests and amounts used barely interest the suppliers.
Is it cheaper to buy from Klotz or Sig to get Klotz oils?
#17
Thread Starter
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150
I just got off the phone W/SIG. There is NO HAZMAT fee for gallons of KLOTZ!
I checked because I am experimenting W/E85 in my Saito 4 strokes & want to use KLOTZ.
I would not think that castor or other oils would differ.
BTW: Order 6 gallons & a few other items to total $150 & get free shipping.
Then your castor oil will only cost you $22.99 a gallon.
ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r
Do I order 4 gallons at a time for $25 a gallon, add standard shipping, and add hazmat fees. Now I'm at $35 a gallon which is what I would pay for a gallon of 5/20 sig fuel at the LHS. Adding synthetic oil to the mix and my cost jumps $2-3 a gallon. For me it's a huge cost savings. I burn 3-5 gallons a season in my cars and airboats.
ORIGINAL: JCINTEXAS
Unless you are getting your methanol and nitro for free...seems like it would be cheaper to buy regular commercial brand fuel rather than brew your own.
JC
Unless you are getting your methanol and nitro for free...seems like it would be cheaper to buy regular commercial brand fuel rather than brew your own.
JC
I just got off the phone W/SIG. There is NO HAZMAT fee for gallons of KLOTZ!
I checked because I am experimenting W/E85 in my Saito 4 strokes & want to use KLOTZ.
I would not think that castor or other oils would differ.
BTW: Order 6 gallons & a few other items to total $150 & get free shipping.
Then your castor oil will only cost you $22.99 a gallon.
My engines seem to like the castor diet, though my cars might run a little faster with a 50/50 mix of castor/synthetic. I'm not going to jump into this right now as I have a few jugs of fuel mixed up already.
1 Gallon of castor lasts me all season and then some.
#18
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
Many of the RC car specific glow fuels have a lot less oil in them. Sometimes as little as 8% oil in the fuel. So they get the extra power by having more methanol and nitromethane in the fuel as compared to model airplane glow fuel with 16% to 25% oil in it.
I think the RC car fuels evolved like that over time as the RC car people kept wanting more power and speed out of the engines. Plus RC car engines usually have a very short life anyway.
Anyway, it is why I always tell people to not use car fuel in a model airplane engine. When you think about it, a RC car engine doesn't go full throttle for every long, they usually run in the midrange throttle range a lot with short WOT bursts for the straightaway. So the engine tends to load up with extra oil at low throttle settings and blows it all out on the WOT burst, then repeats the cycle around the track. Someone a long time ago figured out how low they could go on the oil content in the fuel and still have the car engine work.
But with a airplane engine, most people tend to fly WOT or full throttle all the time. So then there isn't enough oil in the car fuel to support the engine properly.
I think the RC car fuels evolved like that over time as the RC car people kept wanting more power and speed out of the engines. Plus RC car engines usually have a very short life anyway.
Anyway, it is why I always tell people to not use car fuel in a model airplane engine. When you think about it, a RC car engine doesn't go full throttle for every long, they usually run in the midrange throttle range a lot with short WOT bursts for the straightaway. So the engine tends to load up with extra oil at low throttle settings and blows it all out on the WOT burst, then repeats the cycle around the track. Someone a long time ago figured out how low they could go on the oil content in the fuel and still have the car engine work.
But with a airplane engine, most people tend to fly WOT or full throttle all the time. So then there isn't enough oil in the car fuel to support the engine properly.
#19
Thread Starter
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
ORIGINAL: earlwb
Many of the RC car specific glow fuels have a lot less oil in them. Sometimes as little as 8% oil in the fuel. So they get the extra power by having more methanol and nitromethane in the fuel as compared to model airplane glow fuel with 16% to 25% oil in it.
I think the RC car fuels evolved like that over time as the RC car people kept wanting more power and speed out of the engines. Plus RC car engines usually have a very short life anyway.
Anyway, it is why I always tell people to not use car fuel in a model airplane engine. When you think about it, a RC car engine doesn't go full throttle for every long, they usually run in the midrange throttle range a lot with short WOT bursts for the straightaway. So the engine tends to load up with extra oil at low throttle settings and blows it all out on the WOT burst, then repeats the cycle around the track. Someone a long time ago figured out how low they could go on the oil content in the fuel and still have the car engine work.
But with a airplane engine, most people tend to fly WOT or full throttle all the time. So then there isn't enough oil in the car fuel to support the engine properly.
Many of the RC car specific glow fuels have a lot less oil in them. Sometimes as little as 8% oil in the fuel. So they get the extra power by having more methanol and nitromethane in the fuel as compared to model airplane glow fuel with 16% to 25% oil in it.
I think the RC car fuels evolved like that over time as the RC car people kept wanting more power and speed out of the engines. Plus RC car engines usually have a very short life anyway.
Anyway, it is why I always tell people to not use car fuel in a model airplane engine. When you think about it, a RC car engine doesn't go full throttle for every long, they usually run in the midrange throttle range a lot with short WOT bursts for the straightaway. So the engine tends to load up with extra oil at low throttle settings and blows it all out on the WOT burst, then repeats the cycle around the track. Someone a long time ago figured out how low they could go on the oil content in the fuel and still have the car engine work.
But with a airplane engine, most people tend to fly WOT or full throttle all the time. So then there isn't enough oil in the car fuel to support the engine properly.
There was something written in a magazine earlier this year that in car engines, more than 8% oil is a waste as it does not promote longer engine life like one would expect. I am on the fence about that, as I've never worn out an engine to date. I have a 65mph 2wd 1/10th scale stadium truck with a 3-port .20ci engine that runs very well on 15%nitro/18%oil byrons airplane fuel (still breaking in), but it really runs fast on 20/10 fuel. More oil slows them down some, it seems.. but they run fine on more oil. Most guys want the instant cleanout and transition, of course at the expense of lubrication. I'm not a believer of synthetic oils being better in the car engines, only because they run hotter and in some cases, heavily loaded down.
So on the subject of oils.. Do Ester oils burn at that much of a a higher temp than Pag oils or are they about the same? Aren't Ester oils derived from natural non-synthetic base stock?
#20
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
1QwkSport2.5r
Check out this site Tommy's Karts 'N Parts Inc.
Here is the websitehttp://www.tommyskarts.com/Cat.Oils.htm
CP 2075 CASTOR - QUART 3.99
CP 0080 CASTOR GAL 11.00
Ido beleive that is a heck of a good price for castor oil.
They also list some synthitics, but I have no idea which 1 might be ok in our engines.
Check out this site Tommy's Karts 'N Parts Inc.
Here is the websitehttp://www.tommyskarts.com/Cat.Oils.htm
CP 2075 CASTOR - QUART 3.99
CP 0080 CASTOR GAL 11.00
Ido beleive that is a heck of a good price for castor oil.
They also list some synthitics, but I have no idea which 1 might be ok in our engines.
#21
Thread Starter
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
ORIGINAL: flyingagin
1QwkSport2.5r
Check out this site Tommy's Karts 'N Parts Inc.
Here is the website http://www.tommyskarts.com/Cat.Oils.htm
CP 2075 CASTOR - QUART 3.99
CP 0080 CASTOR GAL 11.00
I do beleive that is a heck of a good price for castor oil.
They also list some synthitics, but I have no idea which 1 might be ok in our engines.
1QwkSport2.5r
Check out this site Tommy's Karts 'N Parts Inc.
Here is the website http://www.tommyskarts.com/Cat.Oils.htm
CP 2075 CASTOR - QUART 3.99
CP 0080 CASTOR GAL 11.00
I do beleive that is a heck of a good price for castor oil.
They also list some synthitics, but I have no idea which 1 might be ok in our engines.
#22
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
You are most welcome 1QwkSport2.5r
I have been looking for a descent synthitic that does not break the bank. No joy. At this point I think I will just go with methanol and castor in my bigger engines.
Use on board glow assist on my K2B sportster.65. And on my bigger Super Tigers (.90 and 3000). That will also keep my hands futher away from that meat grinder up front. (I got the scars on both hands from prop bites).
On the 3000 I might try an electronic ignition to get a really low idle. The wight don't matter the slightest bit to that bird
I can get Methanol for $4.25 a gallon here and then add the above castor. Heck that is some cheap fuel.
I have been looking for a descent synthitic that does not break the bank. No joy. At this point I think I will just go with methanol and castor in my bigger engines.
Use on board glow assist on my K2B sportster.65. And on my bigger Super Tigers (.90 and 3000). That will also keep my hands futher away from that meat grinder up front. (I got the scars on both hands from prop bites).
On the 3000 I might try an electronic ignition to get a really low idle. The wight don't matter the slightest bit to that bird
I can get Methanol for $4.25 a gallon here and then add the above castor. Heck that is some cheap fuel.
#23
Thread Starter
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
ORIGINAL: flyingagin
You are most welcome 1QwkSport2.5r
I have been looking for a descent synthitic that does not break the bank. No joy. At this point I think I will just go with methanol and castor in my bigger engines.
Use on board glow assist on my K2B sportster.65. And on my bigger Super Tigers (.90 and 3000). That will also keep my hands futher away from that meat grinder up front. (I got the scars on both hands from prop bites).
On the 3000 I might try an electronic ignition to get a really low idle. The wight don't matter the slightest bit to that bird
I can get Methanol for $4.25 a gallon here and then add the above castor. Heck that is some cheap fuel.
You are most welcome 1QwkSport2.5r
I have been looking for a descent synthitic that does not break the bank. No joy. At this point I think I will just go with methanol and castor in my bigger engines.
Use on board glow assist on my K2B sportster.65. And on my bigger Super Tigers (.90 and 3000). That will also keep my hands futher away from that meat grinder up front. (I got the scars on both hands from prop bites).
On the 3000 I might try an electronic ignition to get a really low idle. The wight don't matter the slightest bit to that bird
I can get Methanol for $4.25 a gallon here and then add the above castor. Heck that is some cheap fuel.
Lately, thats all I have been using in my fuel, though a 50/50 blend of castor/synthetic made my cars run a good bit faster than my standard all castor brew,
#24
Senior Member
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
Gentlemen.........When you use green Cool Power and also Thor lubricants(both of them are methanol compatible)........do you use the light green Cool Power or the medium green Cool Power or the heavy green Cool Power???........and also for those who use Thor oil do you use the light Thor oil or do you use the heavy Thor oil?????? Both green Cool Power oil and Thor oil are available at Roberts Kart Shop as posted by jimmyjames213 in post no.13. Thank you in advance for your kind reply.
#25
RE: Synthetic oils soluble in methanol besides klotz?
ORIGINAL: larrysogla
Gentlemen.........When you use green Cool Power and also Thor lubricants(both of them are methanol compatible)........do you use the light green Cool Power or the medium green Cool Power or the heavy green Cool Power???........and also for those who use Thor oil do you use the light Thor oil or do you use the heavy Thor oil?????? Both green Cool Power oil and Thor oil are available at Roberts Kart Shop as posted by jimmyjames213 in post no.13. Thank you in advance for your kind reply.
Gentlemen.........When you use green Cool Power and also Thor lubricants(both of them are methanol compatible)........do you use the light green Cool Power or the medium green Cool Power or the heavy green Cool Power???........and also for those who use Thor oil do you use the light Thor oil or do you use the heavy Thor oil?????? Both green Cool Power oil and Thor oil are available at Roberts Kart Shop as posted by jimmyjames213 in post no.13. Thank you in advance for your kind reply.
jimmyjames213 link in post 13 goes straight to the light oil (Thor Oil Light).Code: Thor-L.
Maybe jimmyjames213will chime in again, but I think if you clicked on add to basket that is what he is useing.
That is not bad for a gallon of synthitic. $23
Some one else jump in and check my numbers. Not sure I trust them.
For 18% total oil in a gallon of fuel you would need 23 ounces of oil. That is only $4.13 for the synthiticThor-L. The rest methanol or methanol/nitro.
For the castor fromTommy's Karts(gal) you would only add $1.97 to your methanol
If you used a 50/50 mix of sythitic ( Thor-L.)and castor oil fromTommy's Karts 'N Parts Inc I think the oil cost is $3.05
None of that counts shipping