canardlover

Is there a good easily available nitromethane substitute to improve idle and transition of certain engines..? Have seen an ad using "....a nitromethane substitute..." in their Expert Mix and I wonder what that could be..?
http://www.alansmodels.com/engines/fuel.htm
Have tried acetone, unleaded gas, diesel fuel and some other stuff but none can compare to nitro in my hands and for this particular engine. Other suggestions for me to try..??
Maybe I have missed some relevant threads in my RCU searches - if so please direct me....Thank you.

downunder

It sounds like advertising hype to me and some of the other stuff they say doesn't add up either.
"Synthetic oil based fuels tend to be more engine friendly and perform better at high temperatures than the traditional the castor based ranges." Yeah...right

I don't know how low you need to idle but I use zero nitro and none of my models will move unless I open the throttle (OK, maybe I have a problem with a 40 trainer that's got a 1.08 in it ).

canardlover

Thanks downunder I think you are right about the ad hype. I never use nitro in any of my 2s and not even in my Saito 4s engines where I employ the IGS on-board glow with excellent result.
However my RCV.60 4s is very touchy about nitro content and will not run well below 10% nitro even with on-board glow connected(unless constantly engaged of course). To my surprise it did not run well on 5%nitro+IGS+OS F plug combo but at 10% nitro it runs beautifully without any glow assistance.
So I´m stuck with some sort of additive to my RCV fuel and since nitro is expensive, poisonous and corrosive after combustion I would like to find a substitute - if there is one.
Castor? - sure thing - my standard homebrew which I use across the board of engines contains 6% castor and 12% ML70 but fails with the RCV.60 so far. Any further input much appreciated.......Cheers/Harald

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

Nitropropane has been used instead of nitromethane in some cases, but it will tend to run hotter than nitromethane and not give as much power enhancement. We tested fuels with nitropropane a number of years ago when a large nitromethane plant in the US had a fire that put it out of commission for several years. One of very few nitromethane production facilities in the world. Nitro was very expensive for several years after that, and the supply of higher-nitro fuels became scarce.

canardlover

Bill, many thanks for your reply and in fact I did e-mail Alans Models to ask them to disclose to me what the "substitute" is and guess what they answered...?.....yep, it is nitropropane..!
Well, to me nitropropane appears to be about as exotic as nitromethane but I will certainly check about its supply and price level here in Sweden. Again - thanks for your reply.........Cheers/Harald

estradajae

Hi guys!

How about using ETBE (etil tributil eter I think) that is an aditive for the gasoline in cars, to raise the octane index... it mixes with metanol and with castor oil... I plan to give it a try, starting with 5%. I've read that the ETBE is an oxigenated compund, that would liberate oxigen during the combustion, just as nitro does... Has anyone tried this?

JOrge

B.L.E.

Methanol is already an oxygenated fuel, it's about 50% oxygen by weight. Ethyl tertiary butyl ether is only about 16% oxygen by weight.
Nitromethane, about 52% oxygen by weight would seem to be no better an oxygenated fuel than methanol but it's oxygen is bonded to a nitrogen atom, something it would just as soon be divorced from to bond with something much more attractive, like carbon or hydrogen. Alcohols, ketones, aldehydes, ethers all have oxygen that is already bonded to carbon or hydrogen so it is already taken and thus not really available for combustion of fuel, it's already been combusted.
The ultimate oxygenated compound would be water, 89% oxygen by weight. See what happens when you mix water with your fuel though.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Back in the 50's there was this cheap fuel we came across that was reddish. It was supposed to be the O&R brand. It smelled like shoe polish and had NITRO BENZENE in it.

Enjoy,

Jim

estradajae

Jim

Nitro Benzene is available in my country, and you can find it easily and its pretty cheap, I mixed a gallon of fuel like 4 years ago (but i think it was older) and I mixed with nitro benzene on it, at 15% or so, and last week I decided to use it on my Magnum 46 and it ran outstanding on this fuel, even if it was all that long. But the thing is that i stored the fuel because of the carcinogenus thing about it, and I didn't want to have any problems with it, but I didn't wanted to throw it away just like that, and then I decided to burn it. I have read also that maybe all of the components used for making fuel (nitromethane and methanol) can be poisonus and carcinogen, but it depends also in the way that is used etc... would be nitro benzene so much more harmfull than the others?? Guys at the field screamed when I opened my jug of fuel (specially the experienced ones, that it remmembered COX engines in their childhood, I'm not so experienced becouse I'm 21, but Had a cox once too) but then they didn't said anything more when they saw my plane flying... it become a screamer!!..... The thing is that here in my country, it cost for about 5 dollars a gallon of methanol, 3 dollars a liter of castor oil, it means that I can mix about 5 liters of FAI fuel (1 gallon and a quart) with only 8 dollars (very cheap for me), and maybe a pint of nitro benzene could cost about 2 dollars or something, but if I'm going to buy a gallon of 5% nitro fuel, it would cost me 20 dollars... does it make sense mixing with nitro benzene fuel....but not sure about its safety...any thoughts?

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

As said by others in this forum. Most any petrocarbon is poisonous when burned. I don't think Nitrobenzene is anymore poisonous than gasoline?

That nitrobenzene does have a magic smell?

I'll try to find the MSDS on nitro benzene and see what it says?

Enjoy,

Jim

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

MSDS toxic info on Nitrobenzene:


MSDS toxic info for Nitromethane:

As a matter of comparison, gasoline in this country the best I can find because of variations has a TWA of 10 ppm

Methyl Alcohol: 200 ppm TWA; 260 mg/m3 TWA

Castor oil has no value set... May cause eye irritation. May act as an allergen.

So this means to me that nitrobenzene is 100 times more toxic than nitromethane? But all this also says that nitromethane is twice as toxic as methyl alcohol and so on.

Enjoy,

Jim

estradajae

SO what do you say...better non using it?? I'm too young for uncle!!!! hehe


it has a strong almond smell....and my engine screamss

cheers..
Jorge

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

I used several gallons of the nitrobenzene in my model engines back then when I was young. I don't guess it hurt me? I'm in my 60's now.

It smells better than some of the fuel available now.

I remember reading something about it 3 or 4 years ago. Maybe its not domestically available in the US? I'll try to find it?

Do a SEARCH for BENZENE in just the FUELS FORUM. There's some reading in the results. Some of the statements are a lot stronger than the MSDS results I found on the official US site. They even talk bad about nitromethane. Here's a link to one thread started by a guy from Bogota, Columbia.....

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_13...tm.htm#1376937

Here's link to Morgan Fuel's MSDS sheet. http://www.morganfuel.com/msds_fuels.htm

Enjoy,

Jim

estradajae

Thanks Jim

well, I just don't know what to do!!...

maybe I'll mix some and fly when nobody is at the field, and fly happy!!

Jorge

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Well, I wouldn't be washing my hands in pure nitrobenzene? Heh heh.

As long as you try not to get any on your hands and don't stand behind a running engine a lot, your actual exposure should be minimal?

As I was doing more reading by entering nitrobenzene in Google and appartently people working with it day in and out get a problem with their blood where it is unable to carry as much oxygen as it originally did.

I worked with Mercury for 20 years. I have layed in small puddles of it. I was always checked for Mercury-urine. I was never at any dangerous level.

Enjoy,

Jim

The_Pipefather

canardlover,

This is in response to your original question: " Is there a good easily available nitromethane substitute to improve idle and transition of certain engines..?".

I have used ether (diethyl ether- the same one used in diesel fuel) in percentages of 5%. This was in a Kyosho .21 car engine for which I think they recommend 20% nitro. It seemed to run slightly hotter but the idle & transition was excellent. Much, much better than 0% nitro fuel in fact, but I cannot tell you how it compares with nitro fuel cause nitro is very expensive here ($20 for 500 ml).

It runs the same as 0% nitro and exhibits no sign of rough running or detonation. The oil used was 20% pure castor.

After running the head was removed to see if there was any visible damage to the piston crown or head. None whatsoever.

I dont think its advisable to go above 5% ether.

canardlover

Many thanks for suggestions above, will try diethyl ether and - if I can get it - also nitrobenzene. Worked with nitrobenzene as a chemistry student and remember the nice smell, think we called it mirban oil........Cheers/Harald