RC Fuels Nitromethane, Castor Oil, Synthetic, heli fuel, 4 stroke, etc...Fuel Q&A is here!

Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

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Old 11-16-2004, 03:04 AM
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Default Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

Hi,
I wonder if Castrol M made by Castrol company is degummed racing castor oil.
Are there any additives in this oil? Could not find anything about that on the product sheet. Thanks, Amir
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Old 11-17-2004, 09:26 PM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

In a word...yes. It's probably the very best castor oil you can find and has no additives in it. Castrol have been making it for about 100 years now and in fact that's where the name of the company comes from, CASToR OiL. If you can find it in Sweden (it's not available in Australia but it is in New Zealand) you might have a look at Castrol MSSR which is a synthetic gear lube and the Castrol tech reps say it's even better for model engines than M.
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Old 11-18-2004, 04:24 AM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

Hi,
Thanks for your input. Unfortunatly the MSSR is not made anymore, since 2-3 years ago. I know the MSSR was very popular for 10-15 years ago here in Sweden. I hope the M is still available as I have been looking for degummed racing castor for sometime now. I use the standard castor now mixed with synthetics and have no problems but maybe the M gives better performance for the racing engines?.
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Old 11-18-2004, 04:59 AM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

ORIGINAL: Flyer95
I wonder if Castrol M made by Castrol company is degummed racing castor oil.
Don't say this merely to be disagreeable for its own sake downunder, but in a word ....NO.

Where did you get the idea Castrol M is degummed? IME it makes an ungodly gummy mess inside and outside. If you want a baked blackened head, just use Castrol M. I started using used it upon returning to aeromodelling in '89, and have since used it on and off at times due to difficulty obtaining true first grade degummed castor, but have moved on to better quality truly degummed product. Whilst an OK lubricant for sport flying, it is undeniably goo city! There are far superior Castor alternatives around today.

Castrol's racing castor is a very good (& expensive product) called Castrol 747. It is synthetic fortified. The (C/L) Goodyear racing guys use it in their diesels.

If you want degummed racing castor, Klotz make a superb fortified castor product called BeNOL.

Locally we have a company which distributes first (pressing) grade degummed castor and a modified version thereof fortified with a protein dispersant, slickner, wetting agent, etc. More expensive than the crap your club or LHS will be selling as Castor, but less carbon and importantly, no gum.
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Old 11-22-2004, 01:33 AM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

Hi,
Following this with great interest..

Ok for what it is worth !!

Castrol 747 will KILL your Engine this is from the castrol Tech here in NZ

Castrol MSSR is the Best but is now very hard to get

ML 70 will do also

Penrite Synthetic castor race 40 GREAT !! If you can get it !!!

Gulf Petroleum have a Castor that is for Glow engines !!!

Beware of Mixes that don't tell you what is in them !!! Yes the flavour of the MONTH is not doing your engine any good.. i will not name brands as they have been named here in several posts.

Need to know more do as I did ask the Major Oil companys not the half baked suppliers that
say that X brand is the best and don't go out and buy the stuff that 99% of the others are using unless the blend is known and printed on the bottle..

Some of the Known blends on todays markets cause chemical reactions and these cause corrosion and produce acids that eat out your engine.

Here is a good starting Mix


17 % Synthetic castor can be less

2 % Pressed degummed castor oil purely for lubrication can be left out if you use after run oil

5 % Nitro can be from 0 % to 15 % but would recommend 5 to 10%

3 % Acetone for 2 strokes and 5 % for 4 strokes stops kick back in 4 strokes

73 % Methanol

Your Methanol and Nitro supplier should be able to supply this with a purity of 99.98%

get winheli calculator this will do all the hard work in percentages
http://www.birdgagesoft.com

Hope this helps

Phil
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Old 11-22-2004, 04:20 AM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

Hi,
Thank you guys for all your inputs and effort.
I am intrested to buy 100% pure degummed racing castor oil and mixing it with my favorit synthetic oil.

I have read about the BeNol (degummed racing castor oil) made by Klotz company, and they clame that it has double film strenght compared to ordinarie castor oil? How comes? Does degummed oil protect the engine better than ordinary castor oil? I thought the difference between degummed and ordinary castor oil was only cleaner burning and cleaner engine and airplane for the degummed? Is it more to it? Thanks for your experiences.

Amir
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Old 11-22-2004, 10:08 AM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

ORIGINAL: Flyer95
I have read about the BeNol (degummed racing castor oil) made by Klotz company, and they clame that it has double film strenght compared to ordinarie castor oil? How comes?
I've found you have to be very careful when reading advertising hype. BeNol may have double the film strength of medicinal castor (this goes through a second refining process which removes most of its lubricating properties) but Klotz don't specify what castor they're comparing it with, they know everyone will assume it's the type we use.

sigrun...Nowadays first pressing is synonymous with degummed. I can only speak from 45 odd years of using Castrol M exclusively. A baked and blackened head? My ST G51, for instance, is run on 25% all castor and after 30 hours the head is spotless and I don't clean it. Admittedly I use an air filter (doesn't everyone?) and this traps any fuel that may spit out the inlet.
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Old 11-22-2004, 11:03 AM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

Hi Downunder,
I have never used medicinal castor oil as it is very expensive in Sweden and comes in very small bottles 1/3 liter. But I want the best possible, first pressing, castor oil for use. I buy my castor from a company that sells chemical stuff like methanol, nitro, castor oil and synthetics.
Do you have any good or bad experiences with Klotz BeNol?.
Thanks/Amir
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Old 11-22-2004, 01:07 PM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

Hi,
Gentleman .. My main comcern with Companies that produce blended oils is that they don;t tell you what the contents are.

Also be ware that there are NOT that many oils that readly mix with Methanol

Many Blended mixes are according to Major oil companies just pure hype.. and the additives and claims are rubbish.

I have just spoken to the head chemist at Gulf Petroleum and i am sure if you speak to similar you will be surprized at what you are told.

Many blended oil mixes when burnt leave behind harmful acids etc that attack the inside of the engine, Formac Acid is just 1.

Medical castor oil ( BP ) is not degummed

Also you want Pressed degummed castor and not chemically extracted castor as this has esters
and hydrocarbons that will cause engine failure

BeNol is another name for castor but again you want pressed oil
KLOTZ is motorcycle racing oil as per there website


Coolpower by Morgan doen't list the contents

Omega By Morgan lists some contents and appears to be along the standard Glow Fuel mix

Any mix that will not list the contents of their products are best left on the suppliers selves.

If you are in doubt use the following

15 to 20 % oil this can be a Synthetic or pure castor mix
0 to 15 % Nitro for aircraft
3 % Acetone you can leave this out it just helps mix and burn the pure castor
Menthanol to make up your total to 100 %

get hold of winheli from
http://www.birdgagesoft.com

this is a fuel blend / mix calculator that will work out percentages and volumes of your mix.

Rule of thumb fuel is the FAI approved its been around for many years and it doen't have
all the Flash xxxx brand this and that yet it is a world standard fuel and is used in FAI events


Oil up to 20 % pure pressed castor for running in use 22 %
Methanol 80 % for running in 78 %


You can add Nitro and decrease the methanol by the same amount but I would not use a Nitro based mix for running in unless it is stated by the manufacturer


To invoke some real heat as 1 Major oil company stated if the blended oils are so great how come we are not making them !!!!!!!!!!!!! and supply them to the model world.


I hope to have a report from an oil chemist in the next few days and i am sure that many will be very surprised..


Phil
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Old 11-22-2004, 06:33 PM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

Hi downunder

Re BeNOL. Klotz publish an info spec. sheet listing the claimed properties of the product. They do state its lubricating properties and its flashpoint in qualitatively comparitive as well as quantitive terms. The ultimate test is of course the empirical. In two words, BeNOL does what they say it does. For us down under, its an expensive castor, though no dearer than synthetics. It is also difficult to source with any reliability locally.

Re Castrol M. I can honestly only say I've been using it off and on for less than 15 years. I don't know what the castor was that I was buying as a teenager in the late 60's. As for Castrol M being degummed? The stuff coagulates everywhere, gumming internally and externally if an engine is left to sit unused for any time, and turns black when carb or bearing overspray is burnt onto the head or manifold leakage the exhaust.

First press synonymous with degummed? I don't think so - or I'm surely victim to slick advertising? Possible? I'm not an industrial chemist so I'll double-check as is my wont. I did, perhaps mistakenly, think the degumming was achieved through a secondary separation process. Even the term "first press" is possibly misleading as the process itself is probably no longer mechanical but one of chemical and/or heat extraction? One thing I've discovered is for sure. Not only all oils, but all castors aren't equal. As for Castrol M? No thanks. A decent enough lubicant, but over-rated with no price advantage over synthetics any more and what a mess! Without getting into the trite old castor vs synthetic argument, for those of us who can tune an engine and prefer ringless tapered P&Ls, synthetics have been a boon.

As for the use of intake air filters on aero engines, though understandably it's a pretty standard practice on RC cars, I only know of one(now two) of the several hundred aeromodellers I know who do fit them. Though not suggesting there's anything necessarily silly with the practice if you don't mind the decrease in power from the restriction of the mesh required for the filter to represent other than a rock strainer, numerically it makes you somewhat the oddity rather than as you infer, the other way around.

I saw your post ref the Enya ring replacement in another post. Any problem getting the genuine spare? From Michael? Reasonable pricing?
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Old 11-22-2004, 08:01 PM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

Hi ,
To replace Castrol MSSR see if you can obtain Penrite Synthetic Castor Race 40

http://www.penrite.com.au/nextpage.p...t_10tenths.php

Just for the record MSSR is Castor Oil and according to castrol New Zealand there is a world shortage of Castor oil ( pure ) so any castor will be hard to get.

Phil
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Old 11-22-2004, 08:23 PM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

sigrun
I was just being a bit cheeky when I said don't all modellers use an air filter but I meant the Bru Line fine filter. It only costs a few dollars and has no noticeable affect on power even on 60's. I said "noticeable" because there is of course some loss of power. In CL stunt they're sometimes used as a fine tuning aid in that adding a filter has a similar affect to reducing the venturi size by .010" which gives slightly better fuel draw.

I didn't get the Enya rings from Mike because that was back in the late 70's and I was in Melbourne at the time but next time I go past Model Flight I might drop in and ask what he's got.

PhilNZ
FAI fuel is specified as 80% methanol and 20% castor with NO extra ingredients for two or three events where HP is the ultimate aim (CL speed, RC Pylon). This gives a level playing field and the fuel must be provided by the event organisers. Klotz BeNol would be illegal because it has additives. But I know what you're getting at. These engines have a specific output of around 1000HP/litre (better than any supercharged, nitro burning drag car) and run at 40+K revs yet castor is more than adequate for the job. BTW, the main use of acetone at 3% is that it reduces the ability of methanol to absorb water from the air.
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Old 11-23-2004, 05:19 PM
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Default RE: Is Castrol M the same as degummed racing castor oil.???

Hi sigrun,
I have found a dealer for Klotz products in Sweden so I am gonna buy some BeNol and try it out. This oil seems to be among the best when high quality castor oil is wanted. I run many different brands of engines and they are twostrokes, fourstrokes, ABC, ABN, AAC, ringed . Thank you so much for your help / Amir
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