RC Fuels Nitromethane, Castor Oil, Synthetic, heli fuel, 4 stroke, etc...Fuel Q&A is here!

MEK vs MEKP

Reply

Old 03-22-2005, 11:53 PM
  #1  
RC Wingman
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hayden, ID
Posts: 28
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default MEK vs MEKP

I can find MEK locally, but not MEKP (methel ethel ketone peroxide)...will the MEK work as well as MEKP for an ignition improver or does it need the peroxide in order to work? I have checked auto supply, body shops and boat repair shops for MEKP but no luck. Another question, I have read where some use castor, others use 10-30W (not designed for combustion)...how about 2 stroke oil (which is for combustion) mixed at 25 - 30%? Bad idea? I have castor on hand, but also have the 2 stroke for motorcycles (Yamalube). Seems the 2 stroke would be better than 10 - 30W. Don't want to start another oil war here, just curious. Thanks for your help.
RC Wingman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2005, 12:18 AM
  #2  
SGC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OAKEYQueensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,334
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Re oils, go to this site http://archive.dstc.edu.au/BDU/staff/ron/ select faq from the left index , scrol down select Q5 . this is an excellent explanation of oils , and why castor or motor oils are prefered especially in diesels.
Re MEK v MEKP im not sure but the peroxide is an oxidiser and is proberly the main excelerant in the compound the MEK the carrier and catalist .
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong .
Stewart
SGC is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2005, 12:24 AM
  #3  
Motorboy
 
Motorboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bergen, NORWAY
Posts: 2,232
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Are not sure what MEK stay for intials, MEKP are hardener for polyester resin for glassfibre. Ask the shop who sell polyesterresin hardener and read the label if it contens Methylene Ethylene Ketone Perokside. Never used 2 stroke oil because i am not sure how much are viscose in oil and will it prevent the mechanical pressure in our modelengines and keep piston/cylinder tight without leak. Viscose must be higher to prevent engine agains wear and leak. I am using between 10W40 and 20W50. 10W30 are a bit thinner oil and i can not like this oil in the engine. I can not like thinn oil since the oil can not keep tight and prevent leak. Castor oil are best oil for modelengines when the engine are running hot without oil are burned away and good lube agains wear in the engine, prevent rust, leak. I am using motoroil cause the dieselengine are not hot enough to burn away oil and good enough to smear the engineparts and prevent rust, leak. Both Castoroil and motoroil help to cooling the engine.

Jens Eirik
Motorboy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2005, 03:50 AM
  #4  
knarF
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: None, NETHERLANDS
Posts: 84
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Make sure when you check te epoxy and paint store's that you ask for the productname of the hardener they use/or sell.
Then lookup in cataloge or internet what the chemical name and supplyer is of the product.

I had no luck either, but when i knew my paintshop had "butanox 50" as hardener and the supplyer was "Akzo Chemical"
a quick search on the net revealed that this was MEKP. It just had another name.

I guess every epoxy shop get'sit products from a supplyer, go get the name of their supplyer and call their sales department.
(fyi; most sales people dont know what MEKP means.)

MEK does not work ( i tried it with noticeable effect)

Try,

[link=http://www.yellowpages.com/SearchResult.aspx?search=Paint%2c Glass %26 Wallpaper Stores&searchfor=Home %26 Garden&state=AK&city=anchorage&zipcode=&areacode=0&function=Search Category By Id&method=and&adv=6&page=tax&searchcategory=2960&mercnt=0%2b0%2b0%2b1&buscnt=0%2b0%2b0%2b15[/link]

Benjamin Moore should have what you need for example, or might be able to order it for you.
knarF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2005, 07:11 AM
  #5  
AMB
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: winter park, FL
Posts: 6,748
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Over here stateside we are lucky enough to get premade diesel fuel I use the Davis products they have a 1/2 a an oily for plain bushing and an ABC mix the letter MEK is the apreviation for methyl Ethyl Ketone know as acetone here a solvent it is NOT of any value to make diesel fuel it is not an oxidizer MEKP is of course methyl ethyl ketone PEROXIDE the use of peroxides rather than nitrates
can be very hazardous in mixing although it is used martin
AMB is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2005, 10:26 PM
  #6  
John C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Broomfield, CO
Posts: 397
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Some corrections to various posts above. I went into Wikipedia to check out some of the materials discussed in this thread.

Acetone is Dimethyl Ketone, not MEK . Best known use is nail polish remover

Methyl Ethyl Ketone is also caled Butanone. Primary use is in paints as a solvent as it evaporates quickly. It is a solvent and flammable.

MEKP - Methyl ethyl ketone peroxide is a high explosive in its pure state. It is an oily liquid at room temperature. There is also an acetone peroxide; however it is a white powder at room temperature. MEKP is used in a diluted form (ratio not identified) as a polyester resin catalyst.

Bottom line appears to be, if you want MEKP get the resin catalyst

Hope this helps,

John C
John C is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2005, 09:00 PM
  #7  
RandyRT
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lake Lotawana, MO
Posts: 26
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Hey Group,

I was at my favorite salvage store today and I found the right stuff.

It's marked BONDO Liquid Hardener MEK Peroxide No.912

It comes in a clear tube with .37 fluid oz 11ml

Should be just enough for a quart of fuel.

Randy
RandyRT is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2005, 02:12 AM
  #8  
knarF
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: None, NETHERLANDS
Posts: 84
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Bondo 912 has approx 30/40% MEKP, the rest is Dimethyil Phthalate. Dunno what it is, but I use butanox 50 wich has the same contents in same percentages. It works for me.

I use 2% butanox -> should be about 1% MEKP
knarF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2005, 08:43 AM
  #9  
ddd
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Smyrna, TN
Posts: 413
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

For all you diesel freaks out there MEK is bad stuff and no one should mess with it period. Cetane Boosters are availble in truck stops throughout most of the world to enhance cold weather starting.
ddd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2005, 05:15 PM
  #10  
jfitter
Member
 
jfitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mapleton, Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 35
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

MEKP - Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide - This is one if the most powerful carcinogenics known to man. If you play with this stuff then you WILL get a cancer and die. Even breathing the vapour will kill you (eventually). It will also cause blindness if ANY quantity gets into your eye and is not flushed out within 4 seconds.

MEK - Methyl Ethyl Ketone - This is also a powerful carcinogenic.The electronic assembly house that I use has banned the presence of MEK on their premises. Many, many manufacturing companies that I deal with have banned MEK. Make no mistake - MEK WILL kill you.

I use these products in small quantities as a modeller. My lifetime exposure rate is very low and I wear the correct protective equipment. Gloves must be of the correct type, designed for MEK - it will go straight through rubber surgical gloves. When mixing and spraying paints using MEK (polyurethanes) I use an external air fed hood (like a helmet with an air regulator). These hoods are not expensive - I paid AUD250 for mine (about USD185) - better than being dead.

jfitter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2005, 09:32 AM
  #11  
downunder
 
downunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,520
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

I second what jfitter said about MEKP (well I have to...he's an Aussie ) although I didn't know about MEK. Long long ago when I was in the air force we had a safety notice go through about the dangers of MEKP, especially the few seconds you've got to wash it out of your eyes.
downunder is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 07:08 AM
  #12  
FrancisPerson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Middletown, MD
Posts: 697
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Why not go to a truck stop and buy Cetane Booster? Its only a few bucks.

Francis
FrancisPerson is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2005, 04:50 PM
  #13  
fiery
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Hervey Bay Queensland, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 2,982
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Francis

In Australia, cetane boosters for automotive diesel use are not commonly available as there is no demand. I believe that it is because pump distillate (diesel) fuel is (supposedly) of better quality in Australia than that found in the 'States.

A product used to be sold here called 'Wynns Diesel Boost', which was an anti-knock (cetane improver). It disappeared about 10 years ago. I still have a couple of bottles though [8D]. I bought it wherever I could find it when I heard it was being withdrawn!

fiery

fiery is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 02:29 PM
  #14  
barkai
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ha\'huzat Barak, ISRAEL
Posts: 125
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Try to look for "BUTANOX 50" at Plastic or Fiber glass store
barkai is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 03:54 PM
  #15  
MOJO65-9or10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: apple valley, MN
Posts: 530
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

I used to work for nORTHWEST aIRLINES and they more or less banned it (MEK) for use everywhere except the composite shop. It IS some of the most nasty stuff around. If you are smelling it and for those of you that have used it you know it is pretty hard to use and not smell because it flashed off right now, you are hurting yourself. If you are planning to have kids DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. It is a mutagent and will cause you to have kids with genetic mistakes. I used to work with a guy that used to use it and he DOES have problems from it. The great guy that worked in our paint shop died way early and all messed up from breathing the stuff, so do your self a favor and either use something (anything) else.

I would switch hobbies before I would use it. MEK KILLS

Dave
MOJO65-9or10 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 04:54 PM
  #16  
Ross Kean
Senior Member
 
Ross Kean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Fredericton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 686
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

I won't suggest that MEK (methyl ethyl Ketone) is good for you but in many respects it is not much different in terms of toxicity than any other solvent, including materials such as acetone that we use very casually. Certainly, it is far less toxic/carcinogenic than gasoline. The following link is to an MSDS sheet for MEK

http://www.chemvip.com/ChemVIP%20Active/Products5.nsf/($All)/CD18FB9B3A7C33E486256B4C00623E72/$File/NONE-EN-CEL-NA-MSDS-061.pdf?OpenElement

Ketone peroxides, on the other hand tend to be much worse.

Ross
Ross Kean is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 08:00 PM
  #17  
MOJO65-9or10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: apple valley, MN
Posts: 530
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Wow that is not the same MSDS sheet that we all read at nORTHWEST aIRLINES at all. The sheet (MSDS) was MUCH worse. It caused everyone except a few old timers to completly stop using it. I'm not sure if you know this but something must be bad to make union guys go find something else to use. We ended up using a few different things that were a lot more work. If any one ever smelled it, the person using it got screamed at.

I thought or would of assumed that all MSDS sheets are the same but in this case I know it isn't because the sheets that were going around work were MUCH worse. Please everyone try to find something else to us. Maybe this way you will be able to enjoy this hobby a little longer. By ALL MEANS do not let your kids near it or the fumes. If you must use it, do so outside and store in in a metal case.

Take heart,
Dave

PS - I ride motorcycles like a fool when no one else is around and have smoked for years but I won't use it because I value my life that much. Sorta hypocriticl !!!!!
MOJO65-9or10 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 05:52 PM
  #18  
Ross Kean
Senior Member
 
Ross Kean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Fredericton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 686
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

I looked at a number of sources of MSDS sheets for MEK and posted that one because it gave the most detail. All of the others I saw were quite similar with regard to MEK being (not) a carcinogen. Although not particularly carcinogenic, I wouldn't advise taking a bath in the stuff. In high concentrations, it can do some significant damage to liver and other organs. It is easily ingested by inhalation and by absorption through the skin. I seriously doubt that it is worse than CA, gasoline, laquer thinner, butyrate dope, some epoxies, nitromethane, lead-based solders, soldering/brazing flux, some paints, polyester resin (and hardener/catalyst), chrome plating solutions, cadmium from NiCads or lead from lead-acid batteries - to name a few things that hobbiests are routinely exposed to.

If you find a reference to an MSDS that is very different, please post the link. Not all information sources are the same and if there is another scientifically valid document out there, you would do us all a favor by posting it. More information is always better than less!

Ross
Ross Kean is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2005, 09:03 PM
  #19  
EthanEF
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Morganton, NC
Posts: 8
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

MEK is not a carcinogen as is one of the safer solvents to work with. I've worked with MEK for over 20 years. I am a Chemist and have worked with and kept up with MSDS info on most organic solvents over the years. You can buy it at Lowes and other hardware stores in the paint section.

MEKP is much more hazardous as it is a strong oxidizer as stated. Many of the hardners have MEKP diluted with plasticizers (DOP, dioctly phthalate or others ) to make it less senstive to decomposition. The plasticizer mixes in with the resin and reduces brittleness.

I don't know why anyone would want to mix all this stuff into model airplane fuel. Just go buy you RC fuel favorite brand and fly!
EthanEF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2005, 01:16 AM
  #20  
AndyW
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Timmins, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,911
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP


ORIGINAL: EthanEF

I don't know why anyone would want to mix all this stuff into model airplane fuel. Just go buy you RC fuel favorite brand and fly!

Can't do that. No hobby shop for 200 miles. And all the shops in the big city of Toronto, (450 miles) "say diesel fuel? are you kidding?"

So, I mix my own, 40/40/20 with 2% (I thought) MEKP. Yep, it'll burn out your eyeballs when you mix up your resin but you're warned to be careful. So, when I mix my fuel, I do it outside, wear vinyl gloves and wraparound safety glasses.

Turns out, I can buy diesel fuel ingredients locally,,, can't do that with glow fuel. Been flying a LOT of diesel lately.
AndyW is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2005, 10:54 PM
  #21  
speedster 1919
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
speedster 1919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 1,486
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

MEK and MEKP are not the same . Acetone and MEK are not the same either. Most hardware stores sell acetone and MEK ...............
speedster 1919 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2008, 03:51 AM
  #22  
novelp
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: figtree, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

Hi All,
MEK and MEKP are not the devil in liquid form. They are not carcinogenic. MEK is similar Acetone, it is part of the same chemical family, aliphatic ketones. MEK is useless as an ignition improver in diesel fuel. On the other hand MEKP has the ability of lower the ignition temperature of fuel by generating of free radical in combustion camber.
MEKP is a little more hazardous to work with. If you get it in your eyes it will do a lot of damage to them. So all ways ware safety glass when handling it. MEKP can be explosive! If highly concentrated or pure it can be detonated in the right conditions. The diluted solution can be handled safely without problems. MEKP can be prepared from MEK by oxidation with hydrogen peroxide and a little sulfuric acid. I have done this may times. I don't recommend anyone try this unless they are an experienced chemist . By experienced chemist I mean 5-10 year lab experience. No Mixing your own diesel model fuel isn't lab experience and high school chemistry lab sessions don't count either .
But then why go to all that hassle you can buy it at your local hardware store for a few dollars. It is sold in usually in 30-60% solution as resin catalyst. Diggers is my favorite brand, 20ml cost about $AUS 7.00.
If you want to experiment with MEKP this is the way to go.
Hope this clears a few things up.
novelp is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2008, 06:59 PM
  #23  
Fuelman
My Feedback: (6)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Jordan, NY
Posts: 1,105
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

What exactly are you guys trying to accomplish?
MEK and MEKP are pretty nasty
Fuelman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2008, 09:54 PM
  #24  
oceansfiftyseven
Senior Member
 
oceansfiftyseven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Shoreline, WA
Posts: 196
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

I do not understand why anybody would consider keeping MEK-P around for hobby use. A drop of it on your skin and you will burn. If left there it will take your skin off. If you get it in your eyes you will be blinded. If mixed improperly it will ingnite. Sorry, just ranting...
oceansfiftyseven is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2008, 11:15 PM
  #25  
AndyW
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Timmins, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,911
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: MEK vs MEKP

I keep battery acid for doing anodizing work. Nasty stuff but useful if handled properly. In fact, there are a lot of things that are nasty right under your kitchen counter. Take drain cleaner. This can be made of sodium hydroxide. Used in copious quantities to clear clogged drains. I use it to strip old anodizing before retreating. As in anything, you just need to use common sense.

Mekp is a substitute for amyl nitrate, another nasty used as a heart stimulant. Now we know why diesel guys are so energetic.
AndyW is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service