RC Fuels Nitromethane, Castor Oil, Synthetic, heli fuel, 4 stroke, etc...Fuel Q&A is here!

Substitute nitromethane

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Old 11-14-2007, 08:49 AM
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Default Substitute nitromethane

Hi!

I'm thinking to make my own fuel for my old TRX2.5R... say something like 20% nitro and 12-16% oil... I was looking where to buy the ingredients but i can't find the nitromethane... There's another substitute to the nitromethane? What should be the right amounts for doing something equivalent to fuel with 20% nitro and 12-16% oil?

Till now this are the ingredients that i am thinking and that i can find:

Methanol
Ethanol
Benzene
Acetone
Ricin(o) Oil
Synthetic oil (for 2-stroke engines)

_ it lacks an additive to me to substitute the nitromethane...

What should i use? Which is the best mixture?

Thanks for all help!!!
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Old 11-15-2007, 05:25 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

Any Suggestion?
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Old 11-15-2007, 05:38 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

SIR

KLOTS, THE SAME THAT MAKES THE OIL FOR OUR FUELS HAS NITROMETHANE FOR SALE, WHY DONT YOU CHECK ITS WEBSITE

GOOD LUCK
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:01 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

I saw some threads on this subject and there did exist replacements for nitromethane
they were of the nitro fasmily something like nitro ethelelene or something alonmg those names

They did a similar job but had other issues possibly more or less flamable and dont supply as much oxegen as nitromethane but were often cheaper

Realy most motors can funcion well on no nitro and if the compression is increased will give the same performance as nitro fuel

The issue is zero nitro and high compression motors are not for the novice
reducing compression and using nitro give you the esier starting from low compression and nitro gives back the power lost from low compression


Nitro methane is a brain dead way to get more power and bigger motor with tuned pie on no nitro is probably better solution and can clean you out of money real fast on a 50% nitro combo for a 90 sized 3d heli as fuel consumpion increases four fold at 50% nitro

as nitiro isnt realy a fuel but more like liquid oxegen so 30% nito will realy mean your 5 litres is more like 4 litres fuel and one litre liguid oxegen and the air is full of free oxegen

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Old 11-22-2007, 02:00 PM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

Nitro is a fuel. They run race cars with 100% nitro.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:28 PM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

ORIGINAL: balsaeater
The issue is zero nitro and high compression motors are not for the novice
It's not quite as bad as you might think. I've never used nitro in any engine because I've got no use for it but I've modded engines to raise the compression considerably to get the benefit of zero nitro. Starting was just as easy (one flick), idling was considerably improved (much lower and smoother) and power increased quite a lot. My son and I did the same thing to his car engine and with our normal 80/20 plane fuel he has the same performance as identical car/engines using 25% nitro.
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Old 11-23-2007, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

So! What should i use? Which is the best mixture?

Methanol or Ethanol?
Benzene or Acetone?

Give me your blends formula! Pay attention that i dont want to explode my engine/car... and also i dont want to diminish the time of life of my engine...

And what should i do to raise the compression of my TRX2.5R?

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Old 11-24-2007, 08:37 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

Its MUCH more easier & just as cheap to go and buy a ready mix morgan,byron, or any other brand fuel of 5% nitro with 16%oil. It WILL be more reliable.

That small engine already has high compression. Its not as easy to "make" a fuel and modify the compression ratio for that blend as you think..
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Old 11-24-2007, 09:37 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

Mixing fuel is pretty d#m# easy. If you are not using nitro mixing fuel is usually a lot cheaper. Even with nitro it can be cheaper, if you find a good reasonable source of nitro. Changing the compression is also easy, at least with two strokes and if you have the equipment.
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:58 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

In some ways, it is easier to buy fuel instead of making your own. I would like to make my own too, but the fact is that we just don't have some of the additives that make manufactured fuel as good as it is. From what I've read here, those who are brewing their own fuels are doing a good job with what they have available.

Either way, using nitro or not using it, is fine. I disagree about using nitro as being 'brain dead'. Nitro has its place. So does fuel without it. Please keep the comments friendly and non judgemental. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion forum and I don't want to start editing posts to keep it that way, but I will if warranted.
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:35 PM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

ORIGINAL: HARC_PT
So! What should i use? Which is the best mixture?
The best and simplest mixture is 80% methanol and 20% castor. Adding about 3% acetone is supposed to be similar to having around 5% nitro as far as starting and idling go but it's not necessary. Your standard car engine will run quite well on this simple mixture. Seeing you're in Portugal you should be able to get Castrol M castor, it's absolutely the best you can buy. Here's a start.

Name: Castrol Portuguesa
Address: Lagoa's Park - Edificio 3 2740-244 Porto Salvo Oeiras, Portugal
Phone: 00 351( 21) 389 1000
Fax: 00 351( 21) 389 1600

Raising the compression enough to get the most out of straight methanol isn't all that simple though because it requires some machining of the cylinder head and accurate measuring equipment. Most engines (including cars) are around 9.5:1 and you need to get it up to about 13:1 for best performance with zero nitro.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:05 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane


ORIGINAL: downunder

ORIGINAL: HARC_PT
So! What should i use? Which is the best mixture?
you should be able to get Castrol M castor, it's absolutely the best you can buy.
How can you get away with telling such lies...?

There are many superior alternatives, such as klotz benol, bakers AA, and even BP first press castor, these are true first pressing castor oils, and as such are of the highest quality. I still have 1/2 tin castrol m in my shed that I will not touch, it definitely is not first press, and it leaves blackish brown deposits in every motor I’ve run it in, for it's price it's a rip-off!

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Old 11-25-2007, 11:04 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

ORIGINAL: Luna_Rendezvous
How can you get away with telling such lies...?
I'll leave it up to the mods as to what they want to do with that statement.

Everyone has an opinion, some get it from hands on experience and others from reading magazine ads.

Castrol M is also first pressing and doesn't have any of the chemically extracted castor that some other brands have. It's the only brand of castor I know of that's automatically accepted as suitable for FAI fuel in competitions. Admittedly I'm new at this but it's served me extremely well for the last 50 years and uncounted engines. And at $8 a litre it's hardly a rip-off.
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:07 PM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane


ORIGINAL: downunder

ORIGINAL: Luna_Rendezvous
How can you get away with telling such lies...?
I'll leave it up to the mods as to what they want to do with that statement.

Everyone has an opinion, some get it from hands on experience and others from reading magazine ads.

Castrol M is also first pressing and doesn't have any of the chemically extracted castor that some other brands have. It's the only brand of castor I know of that's automatically accepted as suitable for FAI fuel in competitions. Admittedly I'm new at this but it's served me extremely well for the last 50 years and uncounted engines. And at $8 a litre it's hardly a rip-off.
I agree that was pretty inflammatory.

On the issue of Castrol M I've never had problems either. It has always worked great and while I run my oil blended these days it wasn't always that way. I used to run straight castor long ago and resisted the synth as long as I could. It does have it's good points though especially if you use the good stuff like Coopers has. As far as castor stains on my engine I just drop it in my trusty old crock pot with antifreeze set it on low heat come back 8 or 10 hrs later rinse and viola clean as brand new. No work at all. Maybe the other fella had a bad can of Castrol M.

Have a wonderful day and happy flying in the land downunder.
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Old 11-25-2007, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

In some ways, it is easier to buy fuel instead of making your own.
Unless the fuel is 0% nitro, or 100% castor, then its easier to mix it than to find a place that will sell it or pay more for EPA fees to ship it. All you need is methanol, oil, and sometimes nitro. Other additives are not required. When I mix it I at least know it has a good oil of the proper amount.

Please keep the comments friendly and non judgemental.
When was saying it was D%m% easy unfriendly? OK its darn easy, but I don't know why the latter is friendlier or more non judgemental.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

Your obviously biased downunder, if you have been using a product for 50 years, and not recognised innovation when it happens... well that speaks volumes. Castrol M is a lot darker in colour, with a more pungent smell, if your were familiar with first pressing castor you would have noted how light coloured and neutral in smell it is in caparison. No where on Castrol’s web site or on the product it’s self does Castrol mention that it is first press. I've even tried writing to Castrol to get this information and have received no response... I used to use it regularly last century, and held the same opinion as you, but having tried more recent products, can clearly recognise a better oil when I use it. Since Castrol M is as old as Methuselah, I'm not surprised that it's recognised by FAI

If you have evidence of it being first press castor, please be so kind as to share it, for us all to see, otherwise stop miss leading people.
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Old 11-25-2007, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

ORIGINAL: downunder
get Castrol M castor, it's absolutely the best you can buy. Here's a start.
I've just finished filming my oil tests which represent an objective analysis between the major model oils.

Some *very* interesting stuff was uncovered during this testing.

I'm currently editing the video and writing the corresponding text.

I think lots of folks will be rather surprised by some aspects of what I found -- suffice to say that *none* of the current folklaw in respect to the castor versus synth is 100% accurate.

I don't think anyone's done and documented an actual test of these oils like this before so I hope it will make riveting and eye-opening reading and viewing.
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:26 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

As you live in Europe I suggest you use some of the really good synthetic oils available such as Aersosave/Aerosynth (distributed by Graupner). There is no need for castor oil unless you are addicted to the smell of burnt castor :-)
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:10 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane


ORIGINAL: Luna_Rendezvous


ORIGINAL: downunder

ORIGINAL: HARC_PT
So! What should i use? Which is the best mixture?
you should be able to get Castrol M castor, it's absolutely the best you can buy.
How can you get away with telling such lies...?

There are many superior alternatives, such as klotz benol, bakers AA, and even BP first press castor, these are true first pressing castor oils, and as such are of the highest quality. I still have 1/2 tin castrol m in my shed that I will not touch, it definitely is not first press, and it leaves blackish brown deposits in every motor I’ve run it in, for it's price it's a rip-off!


I think that is going out on a limb. Unless you have some information that the rest of us don't have access. to. Many of the castor oils out there today have additives to prevent carbon build up. But since this additive is derived from castor oil itself, maybe nobody feels the need to list it as an ingredient. Baker's AA is the only thing I would believe to be pure castor oil. They (Vertellus) actually press it. Anything else that is marketed for use in engine I simply do not believe that they run pure castor any more. It is well known that Maxima uses additives in their Castor 927, and it runs extremely well. The F2C guys use it.

Xjet, I'm looking forward to your tests. It would be interesting to see which tests were used. I read many of the engine oil tests and some of them just don't make any sense. Especially the ones where some dude uses the bearing tests simply by using his arm to apply the force to the machine.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:32 AM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

ORIGINAL: Luna_Rendezvous
Your obviously biased downunder, if you have been using a product for 50 years, and not recognised innovation when it happens... well that speaks volumes.
Mobil Jet Oil II (second generation, not the third generation) is a very good synthetic and BP 2380 is almost as good. Turbine oils are the only synthetics I've ever trusted in my engines. Oops, must be my old fogey bias showing again . But at over 3 times the price of castor.......
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:15 PM
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ORIGINAL: downunder

Mobil Jet Oil II (second generation, not the third generation) is a very good synthetic and BP 2380 is almost as good. Turbine oils are the only synthetics I've ever trusted in my engines. Oops, must be my old fogey bias showing again . But at over 3 times the price of castor.......

Those turbine oils are 5cSt at 100°C. Is that enough? That's less than SAE 20 viscosity where castor is typically between SAE40-50.
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:58 PM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

A few things I need to make clear….

My comments are NOT a personal attack on downunder; he stated two things that I believe are incorrect. Firstly that “Castrol M castor oil is the best you can buy” and secondly that “Castrol M castor oil is first press”

I’ve asked downunder to show some evidence that Castrol M is first press castor oil, and he is yet to do so….

I have used that oil extensively and done a bit of research and have found no documentation to state it is first press. In fact all my personal experience with it suggests its a low quality second pressing oil.

Below you will see some photos of what I’m talking about, these are 4 Cox .049 glow heads, 2 new and 2 well used. “A”, and “A1” are high compression Tee Dee heads, “A” has been used exclusively with Castrol M and has roughly seen about ¾ of a gallon of 20,20,60 NOM home brew. Plug “A1” is brand new.
Next to them are 2 Cox .049 standard glow heads, “B” has been used exclusively with SIG Bakers AA castor oil, and is one of longest serving Cox plugs I have, It’s seen nearly 2 gallons of 20, 20, 60 home brew. In fact I ran this plug last Sunday, I gave two 13 year olds there first flight of a 1/2A control line aircraft, and we did nearly 15 tanks of gas in that session. Head “B1” is new.


Finally to the original poster…

There is no substitute for Nitro Methane; it provides the following benefits…

1# Provides more power to high performance engines like the Nova Rossi, but has less effect on cheaper engines.

2# Easier starting

3# Smoother Idling

4# Improves the transition from Idle to WOT (more responsive, and smoother)

5# Because Nitro provides oxygen for the combustion process, it requires a richer needle setting and as a result puts more oil through the engine which makes the engine run much cooler.


The negatives for running Nitro Methane are…

1# Higher fuel consumption.

2# Higher cost of fuel.



Please remember, if you intend to try a home brew with no nitro, make sure you use a little extra oil, fuels without nitro run hotter, and need higher compression, it’s much harder on your motor.


... Oils aint Oils,
regards Mike.

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Old 11-26-2007, 06:11 PM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane


oops double post..? mods please delete
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: Substitute nitromethane

ORIGINAL: Luna_Rendezvous
I’ve asked downunder to show some evidence that Castrol M is first press castor oil, and he is yet to do so….
http://129.35.64.91/bpglis/lubtds.ns...8?OpenDocument
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:32 PM
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Well thats what I was after, now do you mind explaining how you found it? because if you go here --> here and type in CASTOR in the search index, that page of yours is no where to be found? yet it is the same web site....?
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