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-   -   Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-fuels-161/11081170-mobil-jet-oil-ii-mixing-methanol.html)

mobiljetoil 05-15-2012 12:48 AM

Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Hi friends, I've been using Castor Oil mixing with Methanol. but the Castor Oil Price is now more and more expensive.

I'm switching to Mobile Jet Oil II mxing with Methanol now, because I can get Jet Oil at good prices.

Could anyone confirm this ratio will work?4%Castor + 16% Mobil Jet II + 80%Methanol

I'd love to hear your comments and experiences on these mix.

Thanks so much friends,

Cheers!



JCINTEXAS 05-15-2012 05:47 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Yes the oil ratio is good. I had a fuel business many years ago and tested and blended fuels with jet turbine oils. The Mobil Jet II is excellent. You can safely reduce your total oil content to 15% (4% castor 11% Jet II). This will produce more power and longer engine runs per tank. Jet turbine oils work very well so long as you keep the nitromethane content below 25%. Apparently you are not using any nitro in your fuel so this would not be a problem. You mention you are getting a "good price on the Mobil Jet II. What is the price there?
Best Regards
JC

downunder 05-15-2012 07:46 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
I've used Mobil Jet Oil II by itself at 17% in one engine and it worked just fine. I've also used it blended with castor to 20% total but don't remember now how much of each I used but most was castor. Be aware though that only second generation will mix with methanol, third generation won't. I got that information from a guy in (I think) Malaysia who was experimenting with Jet Oil II. It's only problem is the rather heavy brown dye which can stain some model finishes. BP 2380 is a good alternative as is Shell 500, neither of which use that heavy dye.

mobiljetoil 05-15-2012 07:53 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Hi JCINTEXAS,

Thanks so much for your reply, great, it's fantastic!!! so I'm starting to use it now!

acually, I was wrong to say that I can get a good price, because I've got a friend who can give me a few bottles, he works in aviation. I don't know how much they sell it here, I'll find out and let you know, should be more expensive than your country.

I won't be using any nitro in my mixing ratio.
I'll test it soon and let you know the result

have a nice day,
Cheers


JPMacG 05-15-2012 07:59 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Sounds like jet oils should be used with caution:

http://www.aerotoxic.org/download/do...Jet%20Oils.pdf

mobiljetoil 05-15-2012 08:01 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
hi downunder,

Thanks for your reply, have you got a photo of BP 2380 or Shell 500 , so I can show it to my friends here, hopefully they have it too.

I'm glad to hear that Jet Oil works with Methanol, so I can use this fuel for my glow engines.

Castor Oil here is 11 USD/ liter , quite expensive! and hard to find.

Thanks guys,

Cheers!



DadsToysBG 05-15-2012 08:21 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
I remember your home town as Saigon. Glad to have your here. Dennis

mobiljetoil 05-15-2012 08:33 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: DadsToysBG

I remember your home town as Saigon. Glad to have your here. Dennis
likewise, Dennis, I'm glad to be here.

Thanks!


DadsToysBG 05-15-2012 09:17 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
I know this is off topic. I wish things would have been different when I was in your country, but I really loved your country and thought how beautiful it was.
It does prove that our hobby transcends all politics and for that I am grateful. Dennis

JCINTEXAS 05-15-2012 09:25 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Notice the good information from "Downunder" in the post above. I agree... BP 2380 is a good alternative. I hope you can also get the BP oil for free. I conducted extensive tests with 10 percent BP Turbine Oil and no additional oil. (The total oil content was 10 percent.) We ran several gallons through an Enya engine mounted on a test stand with the needle valve set for max RPMs. Then we tore the engine down and inspected it for any signs of wear or heat problems. The engine was very clean internally....no carbon buildup...no discoloration from heating...no signs of unusual wear in the piston or sleeve. We halted the testing at 10 percent oil as the taper of the needle valve was too coarse for the thin viscosity of the fuel. Needle settings were becoming too difficult...but the lubrication was fine. Since most glow engines have needlevalve taper designed for rather thick fuel viscosity (fuels with high oil content), we decided that an ideal blend would be 5% jet turbine oil and 10% Klotz or castor oil, for a total oil content of 15 percent. We found that 15 percent oil produced excellent results in piped engines. The reduced oil changed the density of the exhaust gas and thus actually changed the "sonic velocity" within the tuned pipe. The pipe needed to be adjusted slightly with a result of a noticeable power increase. This was especially helpful with fuels used in R/C powerboat racing.
Best Regards
JC

Fuel Dinosaur 05-15-2012 09:58 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Mobil Jet II is not a very safe oil to use on a regular basis and I do not recommend it. There are other, better and safer oils to use. I have used dozens of different oils over the years and it is kind of ironic. Good old AA grade castor or Benol racing castor oil still work fine. The Klotz oils, developed and used by this responder in the King Orange Internationals way back when, still work great. I see the tendency in the fuel business to use many lesser oils, some sold with snake-oil additives, too little oil in many cases, and on balance, too much nitromethane, only in America. :-) Have been the propylene oxide, nitrobenzene, acetone, ethanol and about every other route you can take to make a fuel. Another way to get a less expensive fuel is to buy a club fuel. They often buy in 55-gal drums and can provide a better base cost for the fuel. Unless you use more than a dozen or two gallons it year, it is hard to save money on fuel. I personally buy my methanol in 55-gal drums from VP Racing, 5-gal pails or 30 gal drums of nitromethane and barrels of Techniplate or Techniplate with 20% Benol castor by volume. SIG Mfg still makes some very good fuels, but hazmat fees are extremely high, and added to regular shipping costs. Consider a different oil other than Mobil Jet II, please. I think FHS Supply still ships nitromethane, and methanol and also has pick up.

JCINTEXAS 05-15-2012 10:32 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Here is the MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET on Mobil Jet II. [link=http://mobiljet2.com/msds.pdf]Mobil Jet II[/link]http://mobiljet2.com/msds.pdf Doesn't look as if Mobil Jet II is any more hazardous than other synthetic oils. However due to coloration (dye), I think BP 2380 is a better choice. Under any circumstances we shouldn't be breathing model engine exhaust (or any IC engine exhaust) in areas where there is not plenty of fresh air good ventilation. Nitrobenzene should definitely be avoided as it is a known carcinogen. Ditto with propylene oxide which used to be used as a fuel ingredient to help with cold weather engine starting. Nitromethane is much less volatile and generally safer than gasoline. VP Racing is a very good source of model engine fuel.
Best Regards
JC

pe reivers 05-15-2012 12:37 PM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
propylene oxide also adds oiliness to the fuel. hence it's use in low oil content fuels.

JCINTEXAS 05-15-2012 01:58 PM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Propylene oxide is extremely volatile and flammable...hence it was used as an "ignitor" to improve starting in cold weather. It is completely unnecessary in warm weather...and can cause pre-ignition problems. Even if your fuel contains "Prop"...it won't for long if you leave the lid off your fuel can for a few minutes. If Nitromethane CH3NO2 is available in your country, the addition of 3 to 5 percent "nitro" will improve starting and idle on your engine...and it will add some RPMs on the top end. For general sport fuel no more than 5 percent is needed as most engines will run OK on straight FAI fuel (20% oil 80% methanol). In spite of it's ominous sounding name, Nitromethane is actually much safer than gasoline.
Best Regards
JC

PS: I run Moki/MARK engines on FAI fuel. These are really good engines. I just wish they had better distribution and support in the U.S.


downunder 05-15-2012 08:05 PM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: mobiljetoil
acually, I was wrong to say that I can get a good price, because I've got a friend who can give me a few bottles, he works in aviation.
I was an engine fitter in our air force so I've been around Jet Oil II for many years. Unfortunately back then I didn't know how good it was in our fuels or I'd have had plenty although I used it as a lubricant in my drip feed Myford lathe :). Actually I'd have had no hesitation in using oil that had been drained from an engine when an oil change was due because the oil was checked at regular intervals for any contamination. The acceptable levels of contamination were so small we had to use a special tool to punch holes in the cans to avoid tearing the metal. Civil aviation though may not have quite such high standards unless they use the same spectrometric analysis as we did (called a SOAP analysis).

Sport_Pilot 05-16-2012 06:27 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: JCINTEXAS

Here is the MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET on Mobil Jet II. [link=http://mobiljet2.com/msds.pdf]Mobil Jet II[/link]http://mobiljet2.com/msds.pdf Doesn't look as if Mobil Jet II is any more hazardous than other synthetic oils. However due to coloration (dye), I think BP 2380 is a better choice. Under any circumstances we shouldn't be breathing model engine exhaust (or any IC engine exhaust) in areas where there is not plenty of fresh air good ventilation. Nitrobenzene should definitely be avoided as it is a known carcinogen. Ditto with propylene oxide which used to be used as a fuel ingredient to help with cold weather engine starting. Nitromethane is much less volatile and generally safer than gasoline. VP Racing is a very good source of model engine fuel.
Best Regards
JC

That MSDS must have gotten through with some bribe money! It shows that it has up to 3% TCP a deadly poisen!

Prop_Washer2 05-16-2012 07:26 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Great info on the oils, I am going to check out my local area for their availability. Maybe you guys can help me, where can I look for Methanol...?? I don't care to run nitro in my glow engines, I have a bunch of old MDS's from Russia, and they run better on low or no nitro fuel. I just need to find a source for Methanol, any ideas..??

Prop_Washer2 05-16-2012 07:35 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Never mind, I found a place locally on the web that has methanol for $4.00 a gallon, 5 gallon minimum. With that solved
would the turbine oil, or Klotz be the better oil choice?

Sport_Pilot 05-16-2012 08:57 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Iwould thinkthatthe jet oil is the better lubricant, but I would think there would be the small possibility you could suffer from Jake Leg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica_Ginger

mobiljetoil 05-30-2012 09:41 PM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Hi All,

Thanks all for your helpful replies.

After 2 weeks of testing the new fuel (4% Castor , 16% Mobil Jet Oil , 80% Methanol) , my friends and I have used up nearly 20 liters of fuel, testing on quite a few engines, OS 50 Heli, OS 55 AX, OS 46 AX....It works like a charm! :-)

a friend of mine who doesn't want to use the old mixture any more ( 20% Castor, 80% Methanol), he insists on using the new fuel.

Upside:
_ lots of smoke
_ Cool Engines (not sure if it's good or bad, but engines seem to be cooler compared to old mixture)
_ Before, when I carry my old fuel (the old mixture 20% Castor, 80% Methanol) , it smells so bad in the car. But with the Mobil Jet Oil mixture, it doesn't have any smell. I think this is an important point.
_ Engines are cleaner.
_ Engines don't quit suddenly like before.

Downside:
_ A bit oily , there were 2 times that my friends were holding the plane and slipped his hands off the plane due to oily surfaces caused by the new fuel. But since then, we noticed that and we're more careful when holding the planes.
_ stains on wings where the smokes come out , but can be easily wiped out.
_ As discussed, there might be some health issues with the smokes when using Mobil Jet Oil, my point is, if we use it once a week, try not to breath in the smokes, then it shouldn't be a problem, should it? I'm more concerned on smoking and drinking than breathing in fuel smoke!! :P


A friend of mine has asked a question, can we put Nitro into this new mixture? he wants to add more power into his planes. I doubt it, because the engine temperature with this new mixture is already low. I don't know, honestly.

Thanks guys so much for your help,
Have a nice day,
Cheers!

downunder 05-31-2012 09:16 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Glad it's working well for you and as for health issues, well you're more likely to have health problems from the exhaust with any unburnt methanol which is quite deadly. I see no reason why it won't mix with nitro but I can't say for certain because I've never used nitro.

pe reivers 06-01-2012 11:38 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
I have a feeling that with the jet oil, oil content can be reduced quite a bit. IIRC, as low as 2% has been tried.

JCINTEXAS 06-01-2012 07:27 PM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
You are correct. Insofar as lubrication is concerned....lubrication is fine at the reduced oil percentage. HOWEVER....the taper of the needle valve is set for fuel with a higher viscosity. In my own tests, I found that needle settings become much more critical when the oil content is less than 10 percent. Of course results will vary depending on which engine/throttle-valve is used.
Best Regards

Sport_Pilot 06-01-2012 07:31 PM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Quote:

well you're more likely to have health problems from the exhaust with any unburnt methanol which is quite deadly.
Sorry but you won't get much methanol in the exhaust of an engine as it is almost completly burned off. Even if the burn is incomplete the unburned componets are carbon monoxide and other compounds. Also even if it is run so rich that there is unburned methanol you will not get enough to be a problem, and your body will decompose the toxin and dispose of it in your urine. However the effects of TCP accumulate and cause irreversable damage to your nevous system. True methanol can cause irreversable damage but you won't get near enough from exhaust fumes. However TCP from jet fuel has shown to be very harmfull in the air bleed air conditioning systems of jet aircraft when it leaks into the system.

Quote:

TCP is used as an additive in turbine engine oil and can potentially get into the airliner cabins via a <font color="#0066cc">bleed air</font> "fume event". <font color="#0066cc">Aerotoxic syndrome</font> is the name given to the alleged health ill-effects caused by exposure to engine chemicals; UK industry-funded studies are yet to make a link between TCP and any long-term health issues.<sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference"><font color="#0066cc"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></font></sup>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricresyl_phosphate

BTW See the movie "Water for Elephants". In that movie Camel drinks "Gingerjake" and becomes lame with "Jakes Leg". Gingerjake was laced with TCP to deter drinking of the product.

mobiljetoil 07-03-2012 03:02 AM

RE: Mobil Jet Oil II mixing with Methanol
 
Hi all,

latest update: after 1 month, the fuel color now turn to black, I don't know if the quality is still the same or it'll degrade.

:-(


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