What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Hi,
I resently purchased a Saito FA-100 and was talking to a couple of guy's at the field that said to make sure I used a fuel that has "castor", I had planed to use Powermaster YS/Saito 20/20, but this fuel doesn't have castor, what do you guy's use ? Thank you

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

I've used S&W 15% nitro with 2% castor and 18% synthetic. I've also used Cool Power 15% nitro 20% synthetic. Both seem to run fine. The Cool Power costs a few dollars more.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

In my Saito 72 I use Coolpower 15% that my club buys in bulk. I add a few oz of Klotz Benol to bump the oil up to about 19% No problems.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Yep a few percent of castor will extend the life of your cam/lifters and also provide some valuable extra protection against corrosion of your bearings.

I use Coopers Fuel -- it's like crack cocaine for model engines :-)

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

If any one bothered to read the manual for saito engines you would know that the warranty is voided if you use castor oil in their engines.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Really?? Funny, the manual that came with my Saito R325 warranty on Page 21 makes no mention of that fact. In addition, on Page 13 the manual specifically states that a
"castor/synthetic" mix is the preferred fuel. Obviously, I DID READ my manual!

The manual DOES state that fuels containing ALL castor are NOT recommended however.

Copies from MY Saito manual follow:

From Page 13 - regarding fuel:

"1. Use a high quality airplane fuel
like Omega or Powermaster mix
at 10-15%. The use of all castor
oil for lubraication is not recommended.
A synthetic castor mix is the preferred lubrication."

From Page 21 - Saito Warranty

CONSUMERWARRANTY AND REPAIR POLICY

"Saito engines are guaranteed against
workmanship and manufacturing
defects for a period of 3 years from
the original date of purchase. This
warranty is limited to the original purchaser
of the engine and is not transferable.
Warranty repairs will NOT cover:
• Normal Engine Wear
• Damage due to insufficient
maintenance
• Damage related to over revving if
engine due to small prop size or
unreasonable use
• Rusted Bearings
• Crash Damage
• Damage due to use of improper fuel
and/or glow plug
• Damage due to lean runs such as
rusted bearing, seized connecting
rod or piston, etc.
• Damage caused by foreign objects
(dirt or broken glow plug filaments)
• Damage caused by unreasonable
mounting or running conditions
(dust, insufficient cooling, improper
mounting, improper propeller size
of lack of balancing, etc.)
• Damage due to improper
disassembly
• Modifications of any kind"[/size]

Not sure exactly where you got the idea that Castor Oil will void the warrenty unless you are talking about 100% castor. To just say the warranty is
void if one uses castor is not true based on Saito's own recommendation and is grossly misleading.

I sure hope this does not start another "hang wringing and pants wetting session" regarding the use or non-use of castor oil in fuel!!

I use a castor/synthetic mix in both my Saito's - the R325 Radial and a 90T Twin.

Dan

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

I run all my sport engines, mostly Saito and OS, on a brew of 15% syntetic oil (Aerosave), 5% nitro and the 80% methanol.
Using a modern syntetic oil I see no reason to add castor oil.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Really? By how much will cam/lifter life be prolonged?
My oldest Saito, an .56 has been run for more than 230 hours running on fuel containing 15% syntetic oil (Aerosave), 5% nitro and 80% methanol.
So far I have not noticed any wear. Even the bearings are the original ones.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Ah.. but I was addressing our US friends who (with the exception of Coopers) only have some rather poor synthetics to choose from. There's no way I'd run a Saito on Morgans or Klotz synthetics without a few percent of castor.

Just check Bill Robison's Saito Notes for pictures of what these "lesser" oils will do to your camshaft over time if you don't add a little castor ;-)

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Nail on the head. I have two Saito's and add castor to my fuel if it's not already in there. I normally use 20% Nitro Cool Power, Byrons, Omega, Power Master, Rich's brew, Wildcat, or Magnum. We have no source for Coopers that I am aware of in my city and shipping is far too expensive to justify ordering fuel direct from them. I like his product but he needs someone in the Houston, Texas area to sell it. I'm there if he does.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Jezmo,
Contact us via e-mail.

I prefer to use a bit of castor in four strokes but thats just me. I will mention that I run almost any fuel I have left over from blending through my 4 strokes. I just tune accordingly to the fuel and go fly. I have run all synthetics, all castor and everything in between in four strokes with zero problems. A bit of castor will not hurt a thing and will only help reduce pitting on the cam lobes and lifter faces over years of running.


NONSENCE

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Bill provided good close up photos of cam wear with and without castor.

While some synthetics are quite good, none offer the same protection as castor at higher temps.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Mind you, the cam/lifter interface isn't exactly a "hot spot" in a 4-stroke engine. In fact this area runs relatively cool -- so the perceived hi-temp benefits of castor probably have no effect at all there.

What's needed is a lube with good film strength -- which some of the *advanced* synthetics do seem to have.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

I must be the only one that has had to make a warranty claim with a siato engine. When i sent it back to the repair centre they called me back and asked what fuel i was running. 20% oil (10% coolpower 10% castor) 70% methanol and 10% nitro. The phone conversation then ended. 2 weeks later a letter arrives staing the the warrenty repair was not being carried out because i had not properly read in the manual about fuel containg CASTOR.

I now qoute directly from a saito 72 manual for australia.

For the fuel, good quality synthetic oil for glow engine model aeroplane with 10% to 20% nitromethane content is recommended. Since exhaust temperature of a fourstroke engine is high, use of castor oil must be avoided, as it tends to accumulate carbon. Also a fuel filter must be used without fail.

Although it does not mention anything about warrenty, a $350 bill to fix the engine was enough to stop me using castor in the fuel.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Boy, they really know how to shaft you in Oz eh?

A $350 repair bill? Crikey, what did they do?

You can buy a brand *new* Saito 72 for less than that!

10% castor is *way* too much but the only harm I can see it doing is carboning up the exhaust valve and passages which (I'll admit) can be a pain to clean out -- but a even new jug and valve would cost a tiny fraction of the amount you've been stung and it would take a *competent* person less than half an hour to fit the new bits.

Next time your Saito spits the dummy, send it to someone who isn't going to rip you off like that.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Yes well needless to say i didnt part with any money to them, i went to the LHS and got another 1 for $275.

Apparently the engine was totally shot to bits. I didnt even want to see it back in my cupboard.

Have made a specific fuel just for saito engines with no castor. But with other fs engines i have cut it back to 5% castor

Yeah sorry mate a mistype there it was only a $250 repair bill but still enough to make me put in the extra and get a new one

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

If you're using one of the low-tech synthetics common in the USA then your Saito *will* benefit from some castor. Just check out Bill Robison's Saito Notes elsewhere on RCU to see the rather undesirable effects of running straight synthetic in these engines (despite what the local agents may say).

You're shortening the life of your camshaft and lifters if you run straight synth -- unless you use a hi-tech synth such as those from Europe or Coopers in the USA.

If you run 2% castor then you'll get most of the benefits with virtually *zero* carbon build-up.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

the Saito requirements vary and I guess it is country to country whether to use castor or not.

I agree with really advanced synthetics and film strength, but not with protection at higher temps. You need castor for that.

The comments by the repair facility contradicts itself. It looks like they are trying to get out of paying up.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

blw

I quite agree with you there. I was down at the LHS yesterdey and the saito rep was there. Just in passing i asked him about the use of castor. Their policy is that they do not recommend the use of castor and therefor do not warrent it.

Bear in mind that this is what is written in the AUSTRALIAN manuals and it clearly is different from country to country.

regards

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

I think the confusion is over what constitutes "castor fuel".

A fuel which has *only* castor oil really isn't suitable for 4-stroke use, but neither is a fuel that uses solely a low-grade synthetic (such as Klotz or Morgans).

The *ideal* blend is one that includes a mainly synthetic lube package with the addition of a few percent of castor to provide some additional extreme-pressure protection for areas such as the cam/lifter interface.

Yes, most 4-strokes (there are exceptions) will run just fine on a pure-synth lube package, it's just that they won't run for as long as if there were some castor in the blend.

But it's a personal choice.

Me, I don't like buying new lifters, camshafts and bearings when 2% of castor in the fuel will extend the life of these components quite significantly.

I have to say that there's *no* trace of carbon build-up in *any* of my engines (2-stroke or 4-stroke) when they're run on a synth/castor blend using a decent synth and just 2% castor. That includes my Saitos, my TT91FS, my TT46Pros, my ST90s, my GMSes nor my ASP engines.

You'd think that after nearly 400 hours of running that if my oldest engine was going to see carbon build-up due to castor oil use, it would have happened by now eh? :-)

No Saito distributor in their right mind would be against the use of castor as part of a lube package but they might be against using fuels which have only castor for lube.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

What is the difference between "Omega " 15% fuel [label says it has Caster & synthetic] & "Omega" 15% 4 stroke fuel [label also says caster & synthetic]?

Why in heck don't they put on the label how much of each?

Is it OK to run either in my new Saito .72?

Also, "Omega" says on their label "Do not use after run oil"; what about that?

Shack

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

To Xjet

I totally get what your saying. I still use castor in my fuel but not for saito engines. I did ask the rep about different percentages of castor 2% 5% and his answer was the same.

I have in fact taken on board your idea of 2% castor and will start using that blend once the warrenty period has ended. Castor oil has been around longer than saito engines.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

My Saito 91 has now been coverted to Gasoline/Spark Ignition but was originally run 40 to 50 hours with a small percentage of Castor in the fuel since new. I have had it apart a couple of times and found no build-up at all. The last time I took it apart was when I made the conversion to gas and it is still very clean inside with no abnormal wear on any parts. This last time I wanted to have a look so I can tell if the Gas/Oil mix that I am running in it now is causing any excess wear.

We have people at our field that run straight synthetic based fuels in their four strokers and some that are running fuels with a blend such as Omega. The only four stroke failure I have witnessed in twenty years of running and being around them was a broken crank on a Magnum. Don't think that had anything to do with fuel. I know my observations don't mean a lot and some may have experienced failures but I find it hard to believe that a small amount of castor will hurt a four stroke engine. None of the folks at our field running either type of fuel have had any problems with the lone exception of the broken crank in the Magnum.

Just my two cents.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Maybe it would make a difference if you downloaded one of the U.S. Saito manuals and showed it to the warranty people.

RE: What fuel do you use in your Saito engines
 

Like some, I used to use 30% Heli mix, all synth oil in my Saitos. If you check with Horizon, that is what they recommended. 30% is too expensive and overkill for my type of flying.

I have since gone back to 15% with some castor. It's a little messier, but I know how to clean them.