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Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

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Old 02-05-2011, 04:45 PM
  #26  
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!


ORIGINAL: Lunatik Engineering

I offered to test some of the new 60's, nobody was interested. I offered to pay shipping and test for free with no takers.
To me that means a rumored 10hp motor probably makes 6+hp. I don't know about anyone else but I'm not spending $1-2000 on a motor with ''I heard it makes 10hp'' or ''if one motor makes 5hp then two stuck together will make 10hp.''
if one motor makes 5hp i think adding another 5hp motor will not make it 10hp lol , its still 5hp , when they test motors i thought they dyno test them on there own with a stock pipe to get those claims not by adding a rear DDM pipe , because then again each pipe manufactuer claims by adding their pipe ads another 3hp for example
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:46 PM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

You buy products based on YouTube then. It's your money. I am speaking for myself. Please read before commenting.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:57 PM
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I buy products based on if they fit a need or resolve a problem I have with a car. I try to observe the product which can be a combination of looking at videos from youtube what I see at the track and comments people make about products on the internet.
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:02 PM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

Wow, I guess you don't visit the HBF or Baja Planet forum? Lunatik has an extensive thread showing dyno results of some major players, albeit with some controversy...but he seems to be the only person with a calibrated dyno that's willing to test all of the motors out there.  He may have been a little harsh on his assumptions about these $1000 motor's claims but so would I...
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:12 PM
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ORIGINAL: bbuzzard

Wow, I guess you don't visit the HBF or Baja Planet forum? Lunatik has an extensive thread showing dyno results of some major players, albeit with some controversy...but he seems to be the only person with a calibrated dyno that's willing to test all of the motors out there. He may have been a little harsh on his assumptions about these $1000 motor's claims but so would I...
I don't like that forum it is biased. Since there is no agreed upon industry standard for measuring hp there will always be debates over the figures. Companys use different dynos. In my opinion dynos give you an indication of the hp of an engine under perfect conditions the true test is the real world the track. If I had a dno I would mostly use it as a tool to measure any performance gains on modifications I made to my motor.
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:13 PM
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ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300


ORIGINAL: Lunatik Engineering

I offered to test some of the new 60's, nobody was interested. I offered to pay shipping and test for free with no takers.
To me that means a rumored 10hp motor probably makes 6+hp.'
..............That does not prove anything. The only thing that proves is that they don't know who you are and question your credentials I would not send a motor to someone I did not know whose opinion could be biased .
Please leave the grade school lunch room and join us in the world of reality. There are companies all over the country that offer dyno testing, im not the only one. The rest of the entire world uses dyno testing for benchmark performance data. You can buy a $50 weed trimmer or a $100 lawn mower that both have the HP rating stamped all over the box and product. You dont go buy a new Chevy that has "we heard on the internet this makes 300hp" or "go to youtube for great videos of this car in the dirt" Even the electric motors have performance data/ratings so the consumer can make educated purchases related to its output.
You can try to spin a defense for these companies any way you want but it will be transparent to anyone with a brain.
As I said earlier, I (as in me) will never buy a motor or engine based on a rumor started on the internet or by watching some model on youtube spinning its tires real fast in the sand. Especially a motor or engine that can cost as much as $2000.
Im basing my opinion on the 500 dyno tests I have run on small bore 2 stroke motors just like the ones in this discussion.

You or anyone else can form their own opinions any way you like and post them here just like I have.
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Old 02-05-2011, 05:29 PM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

I am not spining a defense for any of these companies they can claim what they want the true test is the track that is real world results. Until there is a industry standard for measuring hp for our 1/5 scale cars the hp results will vary from company to company based on the design of their dyno . The best indicator is the race results of these engine.
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Old 02-05-2011, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

Thats the very reason I will see what Lunatiks numbers are on his dyno. He has dynoed just about all of the other available engines out there. His tuning, his calibrated dyno thats the constant, it will eliminate the variaitions from using different dynos. If Lunatiks numbers show that it makes more power than say OBR, ESP, CC Racing or TS, I will believe it.
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Old 02-05-2011, 07:45 PM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!


ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

I am not spining a defense for any of these companies they can claim what they want the true test is the track that is real world results. Until there is a industry standard for measuring hp for our 1/5 scale cars the hp results will vary from company to company based on the design of their dyno . The best indicator is the race results of these engine.

There is an industry standard, the same standard that TS, CC racing, BZM, Quickdraw, ESP, all of the boat engine builders etc etc etc. Its called an engine Dynamometer. You are one of people that are not
aware of this standard. If you stay involved in motorsports long enough you will come to realize this fact.
CONSISTENT race results are a good standard for measuring the combination of driver/rider skill, chassis set-up and engine performance. Get off the internet and go to some races in person, when you are
there talk to the teams/racers that are getting good results that day and THEN come home, google their names and see if they consistently win or get on the podium at all of the tracks in the series. This is
one credible way to use the internet for factual information about this subject.

By the way, I dont make a dime dyno testing engines. I have no motive to push dyno data on anyone other that to educate.
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Old 02-05-2011, 07:50 PM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

Lunatik, you keep doing what you do...I have used the data that you have provide to make educated decisions on my engine purchases...no one else is doing this for the largescale community that I know of...if there is, I digress.
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:48 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!


ORIGINAL: bbuzzard

Lunatik, you keep doing what you do...I have used the data that you have provide to make educated decisions on my engine purchases...no one else is doing this for the largescale community that I know of...if there is, I digress.
I plan to, When I started messing with the large scale cars nobody even heard of a dyno let alone know what they are used for. I heard the most outrageous explanations for their use, and still do........

How can you argue with running 3 different motors on the same dyno, the same day, the same fuel, with optimization instructions from each builder, using the same pipes etc. All back to back.
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Old 02-05-2011, 08:56 PM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

I'm just glad to see you over here on this board...
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:34 AM
  #38  
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

Lunatik you are still missing the point the manufactors that you are talking about have their own Dynos why would they need to have you dyno their motors??? What are your credentials are you an engineer?? What makes your Dyno so special why is it better than everyone else?? What makes it perfect?? And all engine dynos are not set up the same way thats what I mean by industry standards.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:41 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

ORIGINAL: bbuzzard

I'm just glad to see you over here on this board...
.......... The HBI BAJA Forum is very biased and if you get into a debate with one of their venders they kick you off the forum. That forum in my opinion is guilty of censorship.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:55 AM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

Lunatik you question the horsepower claims of those manufactors you need to contact some of your good old boys who have purchased a 50cc Inline Twin or a 62cc and dyno them and see how far off their horsepower claims are. And video the results as proof.
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:03 AM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

Wow...I never claimed that the HBF was all that but the engine threads have been very active and helpful to me. They do tend to call folks out with the BS but you are correct it is definitely biased over there. I understand folks not liking particular boards run by the same person(s) but "hate" is such a strong term...I have been way more active on this board than any other due to the unbiased conversations and the lack of clone-a-phobes. In fact, if it weren't for this board, I wouldn't have been introduced to largescale.
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:24 AM
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Where did I say the word Hate??
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:39 AM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

Nice edit job...
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:08 AM
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ORIGINAL: bbuzzard

Nice edit job...
..........I only edit out curse words and misspelling.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:37 AM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

The objective of this thread was to make people aware of the different engine choices for their 1/5 scale vehicles. I am not saying that the horsepower claims of the manufactors are correct or incorrect you use your own judgment. Lunatik questions the hp claims I hope he dynos the motors in question so he can contribute to the end of this debate. But he most realize that it is VERY UNLIKELY THAT ANY OF THESE MANUFACTORS ARE GOING TO SEND HIM ONE OF THEIR MOTORS TO TEST. These manufactors have their own dynos and technicians to test their motors. What makes Lunatik's dyno superior to theirs??? And these manufactors not sending him their motors to test does not necessarly prove their hp claims false. I am sure with his contacts Lunatik knows someone who has a 50cc inline twin or 62 cc he could dyno and document the results with a video.
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Old 02-06-2011, 09:06 AM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

What we are saying is this, Lunatik can make comparisons of the other engines ( including the BZM) that were also ran on his dyno. Its called comparison testing,I don't really look at the numbers, just how it stacks up to the competition.
These are made up numbers, I just pulled them out of thin air because I am too lazy to go look them up on HBF
Say, OBRs 23cc makes 5.3 hp, ESP makes 5.2, CC makes like 5.5, and BZM makes 5.5 as well. Sure the BZM made less on Luntaiks Dyno than what they advertised, but look how it compared to the others.....Thats what I am talking about. Lunatik's dyno is the one "constant" in the equation.
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Old 02-06-2011, 09:17 AM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

+1 to that, smaller inertia dynos are good for side by side comparison...when done on the same dyno.... and an invalueble tool for tuners so they can compare graphs after a particular modification....
I have to add that to me HP is kinda irrelevant anyhow...it's torque that gets things moving not HP, and peak HP is nothing without torque to enable it to actually get there..
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:56 AM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

ORIGINAL: Obeast44

What we are saying is this, Lunatik can make comparisons of the other engines ( including the BZM) that were also ran on his dyno. Its called comparison testing,I don't really look at the numbers, just how it stacks up to the competition.
These are made up numbers, I just pulled them out of thin air because I am too lazy to go look them up on HBF
Say, OBRs 23cc makes 5.3 hp, ESP makes 5.2, CC makes like 5.5, and BZM makes 5.5 as well. Sure the BZM made less on Luntaiks Dyno than what they advertised, but look how it compared to the others.....Thats what I am talking about. Lunatik's dyno is the one ''constant'' in the equation.
Lunatik's dyno is not the one constant in this equation. Why are his results different?? What makes his dyno more accurate than the manufactors???? What makes his dyno perfect?? can he prove it is perfect?? He is the one who challenged the hp reading of the manufactors the burden of proof is on him.
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:01 AM
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Who established the industry standards for Dynos for 23cc-62cc 2 cycle engines?? What makes Lunatiks Dyno superior to the dynos used by the manufactors??
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Old 02-06-2011, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

Find it hard to keep my mouth shut here..
Lunatik's dyno is almost like the 'inofficial LS benchmark dyno' because he dynoed a lot of LS engines, and the best way to compare engines it so run them all on the same dyno.
If somebody else would have done the same as Lunatik, and tested most of the available engines and pipes, then they would also have a good benchmark dyno. Even if the numbers were totally different on the other dyno, you could still compare results of different engines.
Not all dyno's are equal, so comparing results from one dyno with results from another does usually not give the same numbers. If all engines are dynoed on the same dyno, that's the best way to compare the engines.

How can this be so hard to understand?
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