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Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

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Old 02-06-2011, 11:34 AM
  #51  
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But why should his dyno be accepted as the industry standard??? What makes his better than the manufactors dynos or anyone else?? What is so hard about that to understand???He is the one who question the hp rating of the manufactors he needs to prove that they don't put out the hp rating stated. And prove why his dyno is more accurate than the manufactors.
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Old 02-06-2011, 12:35 PM
  #52  
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Since when do the manufacturers follow a standard set of rules and who governs this? It is typical for manufacturers to bolster their appeal by fudging with their numbers. Now this you should understand...
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:48 PM
  #53  
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so how long till some one comes out with a stiffer suspension and foot pegs so we can just ride them?
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Old 02-06-2011, 03:59 PM
  #54  
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ORIGINAL: Shabbernigdo

so how long till some one comes out with a stiffer suspension and foot pegs so we can just ride them?
Believe it or not there is a video on youtube where a dad is riding his kids around on his Baja!!
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:05 PM
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ORIGINAL: bbuzzard

Since when do the manufacturers follow a standard set of rules and who governs this? It is typical for manufacturers to bolster their appeal by fudging with their numbers. Now this you should understand...
I am glad you finally understand that !! So what makes Lunatik Dyno better than the ones the manufactors have?? And why should they want to send their motors to him and have him dyno them?? This debate centers on what Lunatik said in post 22- read post 22. Why would these manufactors want to send their motors to him and have him dyno them?? Is Lunatik dyno the same as theirs?? They have too much to lose if they get a different hp reading from his dyno. Thats why I suspect alot of manufactors have not taken him up on his offer. And the fact that these manufactors have their own in house dyno.
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Old 02-06-2011, 04:52 PM
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ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

ORIGINAL: bbuzzard

Since when do the manufacturers follow a standard set of rules and who governs this? It is typical for manufacturers to bolster their appeal by fudging with their numbers. Now this you should understand...
I am glad you finally understand that !! So what makes Lunatik Dyno better than the ones the manufactors have?? And why should they want to send their motors to him and have him dyno them?? This debate centers on what Lunatik said in post 22- read post 22. Why would these manufactors want to send their motors to him and have him dyno them?? Is Lunatik dyno the same as theirs?? They have too much to lose if they get a different hp reading from his dyno. Thats why I suspect alot of manufactors have not taken him up on his offer. And the fact that these manufactors have their own in house dyno.
Man, I ain't debating with you about this anymore...obviously, you don't get the angle I was mentioning.

You and Lunatik can finish this up...


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Old 02-06-2011, 05:51 PM
  #57  
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ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

ORIGINAL: bbuzzard

Since when do the manufacturers follow a standard set of rules and who governs this? It is typical for manufacturers to bolster their appeal by fudging with their numbers. Now this you should understand...
I am glad you finally understand that !! So what makes Lunatik Dyno better than the ones the manufactors have?? And why should they want to send their motors to him and have him dyno them?? This debate centers on what Lunatik said in post 22- read post 22. Why would these manufactors want to send their motors to him and have him dyno them?? Is Lunatik dyno the same as theirs?? They have too much to lose if they get a different hp reading from his dyno. Thats why I suspect alot of manufactors have not taken him up on his offer. And the fact that these manufactors have their own in house dyno.
80% of the engine builders have he same dyno that I do. 80% of the engine builders have voluntarily sent their engines to me for previous dyno comparisons between theirs and their competitors engines. Of those tests 99% of the builders agreed with my results
On public forums and thanked me for providing the service.

Go to www.lunatikengineering.com to see my background.

There is nothing unique about my equipment.

You have no understanding of the process and are extremely argumentative and bothersome.

I hope you are learning something positive in all this.
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:00 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

ORIGINAL: Lunatik Engineering


ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

ORIGINAL: bbuzzard

Since when do the manufacturers follow a standard set of rules and who governs this? It is typical for manufacturers to bolster their appeal by fudging with their numbers. Now this you should understand...
I am glad you finally understand that !! So what makes Lunatik Dyno better than the ones the manufactors have?? And why should they want to send their motors to him and have him dyno them?? This debate centers on what Lunatik said in post 22- read post 22. Why would these manufactors want to send their motors to him and have him dyno them?? Is Lunatik dyno the same as theirs?? They have too much to lose if they get a different hp reading from his dyno. Thats why I suspect alot of manufactors have not taken him up on his offer. And the fact that these manufactors have their own in house dyno.
80% of the engine builders have he same dyno that I do. 80% of the engine builders have voluntarily sent their engines to me for previous dyno comparisons between theirs and their competitors engines. Of those tests 99% of the builders agreed with my results
On public forums and thanked me for providing the service.

Go to www.lunatikengineering.com to see my background.

There is nothing unique about my equipment.

You have no understanding of the process and are extremely argumentative and bothersome.

I hope you are learning something positive in all this.

I have to agree here, Luna has tested almost all the popular combos us guys run, I would like to see a 62cc zen, a twin and the BZM on his dyno, this way we can do a direct comparison from the information he kindly supplied to us over the years and make our own educated choice for the situation we are looking to fill.
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Old 02-06-2011, 09:13 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

Motors Motors Motors..... So much contention over motors.  I have owned 3 skopod 62's  and nowhere have I seen skopod claim 10hp out of the motor.  I have owned OBR full mods. ESP full mods Cat 5 modded motors.  I will be purchasing a twin soon as well and might get a BZM also.
When it  comes down to it, it's all about its intended purpose.  Just because some don't like a motor for one reason or another doesn't mean another person will.

Why is it when there are more motor options people get all in a tizzy about it?????

I agree there needs to be some standard set for dyno testing if everyone is using different equipment and methods its quite the waste of time. 
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:12 PM
  #60  
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ORIGINAL: LOST IN MN

Motors Motors Motors..... So much contention over motors. I have owned 3 skopod 62's and nowhere have I seen skopod claim 10hp out of the motor. I have owned OBR full mods. ESP full mods Cat 5 modded motors. I will be purchasing a twin soon as well and might get a BZM also.
When it comes down to it, it's all about its intended purpose. Just because some don't like a motor for one reason or another doesn't mean another person will.

Why is it when there are more motor options people get all in a tizzy about it?????

I agree there needs to be some standard set for dyno testing if everyone is using different equipment and methods its quite the waste of time.
because when its about motors our cavemen instincts come into effect , and start fighting with eachother about who has the bigger stick .
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:18 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

HAHAgood answer!
ORIGINAL: splcrazy


ORIGINAL: LOST IN MN

Motors Motors Motors..... So much contention over motors. I have owned 3 skopod 62's and nowhere have I seen skopod claim 10hp out ofthe motor. I have owned OBR full mods. ESP full mods Cat 5 modded motors. I will be purchasing a twin soon as well and might get a BZM also.
When it comes down to it, it's all about its intended purpose. Just because some don't like a motor for one reason or another doesn't mean another person will.

Why is it when there are more motor options people get all in a tizzy about it?????

I agree there needs to be some standard set for dyno testing if everyone is using different equipment and methods its quite the waste of time.
because when its about motors our cavemen instincts come into effect , and start fighting with eachother about who has the bigger stick .
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:50 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!


ORIGINAL: Lunatik Engineering


ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

ORIGINAL: bbuzzard

Since when do the manufacturers follow a standard set of rules and who governs this? It is typical for manufacturers to bolster their appeal by fudging with their numbers. Now this you should understand...
I am glad you finally understand that !! So what makes Lunatik Dyno better than the ones the manufactors have?? And why should they want to send their motors to him and have him dyno them?? This debate centers on what Lunatik said in post 22- read post 22. Why would these manufactors want to send their motors to him and have him dyno them?? Is Lunatik dyno the same as theirs?? They have too much to lose if they get a different hp reading from his dyno. Thats why I suspect alot of manufactors have not taken him up on his offer. And the fact that these manufactors have their own in house dyno.
80% of the engine builders have he same dyno that I do. 80% of the engine builders have voluntarily sent their engines to me for previous dyno comparisons .
............................So you are saying that the manufactors have the same dyno as you but still send their motors to you to get dyno Why ?? Are you the best at interpeting the results for this type of Dyno?? I guess the manufactors technicians are not able to accuratley use their own dyno and have to have you check their work??
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Old 02-07-2011, 01:55 AM
  #63  
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ORIGINAL: Lunatik

You have no understanding of the process and are extremely argumentative and bothersome.


...............Thank you I try hard
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Old 02-07-2011, 02:10 AM
  #64  
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ORIGINAL: Lunatik Engineering

I offered to test some of the new 60's, nobody was interested. I offered to pay shipping and test for free with no takers.
To me that means a rumored 10hp motor probably makes 6+hp. I don't know about anyone else but I'm not spending $1-2000 on a motor with ''I heard it makes 10hp'' or ''if one motor makes 5hp then two stuck together will make 10hp.''
Lunatik you keep trying to change the subject. The paragraph above is post #22 the source of our debate . Read it. You have already formed an opinion about this motor without even testing it you are not being objective. No wonder the manufactor of this engine did not send you one for testing. Thats the point I was trying to get across to you. You should not start pulling hp numbers outta the air for motors you have not tested on the dyno. And you should not expect all manufactors to send you their motors for you to dyno even if you pay for postage especially when you make comments like you did in post #22.
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:14 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

Bbuzzard you don't get my angle.
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:37 AM
  #66  
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Default RE: Horsepower War A Brewing!!!

I don't think anyone was stating that Lunatik's testing platform should be the industry standard but more of a tool that is constant to test all the variables(motors) available to give us comparative results. I welcome you to come up a solution to all this since you obviously don't trust Lunatik's...
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:19 AM
  #67  
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Hey wait a minute you said you were finish debating with me make up your mind!!
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:33 AM
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You responded to me, so I responded back...I'm easy but I ain't that easy...
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Old 02-07-2011, 06:55 AM
  #69  
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ORIGINAL: bbuzzard

I don't think anyone was stating that Lunatik's testing platform should be the industry standard but more of a tool that is constant to test all the variables(motors) available to give us comparative results. I welcome you to come up a solution to all this since you obviously don't trust Lunatik's...
............You are trying to change the subject again I am questioning what Lunatik said in post 22 and possible reasons, why those manufactors did not send in their motors. I don't blindly trust anyone you have to earn my trust. Right now I have no reason to trust or distrust Lunatik.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:05 AM
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I ain't changing anything...I've only responded from my viewpoint. Your pursuit of getting an answer from Lunatik is for him to answer alone...my previous post was in response to you only and in particular your post #51.
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Old 02-07-2011, 07:12 AM
  #71  
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six HP on a 23cc doesnt surprise me. 6 HP on a 23c ZEN, would. i suppose youd be able to get close with a reed case, but i dont think the transfer port entry angles are really good enough to support that kind of power. this motor is a different casting, so the angles and direction of the porting were probably optimized. this in combination with a good pipe for sure makes six.

as far as the 62cc vs the twin, guys have been running twins in boats for years. my vote goes for that. the rest is just speculation.


I'm sick of the dyno discussion. everybody knows each dyno will give slightly different results from one to another, so why does it matter if numbers arent EXACLTY the same? I'm also sure no manufacturers sent luna thier motors for reasons just like this- a whole bunch of B.S about testing, and im sure they dont need an already small market motor to have its credibility tarnished by a bunch of bickering. i remember the old dyno shootout thread.

luna, do you still do dyno testing?
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:09 AM
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ORIGINAL: savagecommander

six HP on a 23cc doesnt surprise me. 6 HP on a 23c ZEN, would. i suppose youd be able to get close with a reed case, but i dont think the transfer port entry angles are really good enough to support that kind of power. this motor is a different casting, so the angles and direction of the porting were probably optimized. this in combination with a good pipe for sure makes six.

as far as the 62cc vs the twin, guys have been running twins in boats for years. my vote goes for that. the rest is just speculation.


I'm sick of the dyno discussion. everybody knows each dyno will give slightly different results from one to another, so why does it matter if numbers arent EXACLTY the same? I'm also sure no manufacturers sent luna thier motors for reasons just like this- a whole bunch of B.S about testing, and im sure they dont need an already small market motor to have its credibility tarnished by a bunch of bickering. i remember the old dyno shootout thread.

luna, do you still do dyno testing?

I will say this as far as the 62's go since I own them. They are incredible torque monsters and alot of fun to have in a car. They can easily be run with underdrive gearing as will. As far as the twins go Iwon't comment since I do not own one. It's all a matter of preference vs weight vs cost. Personally I welcome all the motor choices its great for the hobby!!!
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:03 AM
  #73  
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ORIGINAL: LOST IN MN

Motors Motors Motors..... So much contention over motors. I have owned 3 skopod 62's and nowhere have I seen skopod claim 10hp out of the motor. I have owned OBR full mods. ESP full mods Cat 5 modded motors. I will be purchasing a twin soon as well and might get a BZM also.
When it comes down to it, it's all about its intended purpose. Just because some don't like a motor for one reason or another doesn't mean another person will.

Why is it when there are more motor options people get all in a tizzy about it?????

I agree there needs to be some standard set for dyno testing if everyone is using different equipment and methods its quite the waste of time.
I've seen claims of 10, 12 and 15 hp on the 62's. From who, I don't know. I've seen outrageous rpm claims as well.
My point is that if I made these motors I would certainly let my customers know what they are buying, my opinion only.
I don't care who's dyno is used.
One more opinion of mine......I would never buy a motor with unknown performance data. Not a stock 23 or a $2000 twin, that's why I bought my dyno.
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:04 AM
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ORIGINAL: savagecommander

six HP on a 23cc doesnt surprise me. 6 HP on a 23c ZEN, would. i suppose youd be able to get close with a reed case, but i dont think the transfer port entry angles are really good enough to support that kind of power. this motor is a different casting, so the angles and direction of the porting were probably optimized. this in combination with a good pipe for sure makes six.

as far as the 62cc vs the twin, guys have been running twins in boats for years. my vote goes for that. the rest is just speculation.


I'm sick of the dyno discussion. everybody knows each dyno will give slightly different results from one to another, so why does it matter if numbers arent EXACLTY the same? I'm also sure no manufacturers sent luna thier motors for reasons just like this- a whole bunch of B.S about testing, and im sure they dont need an already small market motor to have its credibility tarnished by a bunch of bickering. i remember the old dyno shootout thread.

luna, do you still do dyno testing?
All of the time!
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Old 02-07-2011, 10:11 AM
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ORIGINAL: nitrohead5300

ORIGINAL: Lunatik Engineering

I offered to test some of the new 60's, nobody was interested. I offered to pay shipping and test for free with no takers.
To me that means a rumored 10hp motor probably makes 6+hp. I don't know about anyone else but I'm not spending $1-2000 on a motor with ''I heard it makes 10hp'' or ''if one motor makes 5hp then two stuck together will make 10hp.''
Lunatik you keep trying to change the subject. The paragraph above is post #22 the source of our debate . Read it. You have already formed an opinion about this motor without even testing it you are not being objective. No wonder the manufactor of this engine did not send you one for testing. Thats the point I was trying to get across to you. You should not start pulling hp numbers outta the air for motors you have not tested on the dyno. And you should not expect all manufactors to send you their motors for you to dyno even if you pay for postage especially when you make comments like you did in post #22.

Read my own post? Why, I wrote it. I don't have to pull numbers out of the air, I have a dyno......
Trust me on this, there are engine builders/tuners that hate my guts for what I am doing. In had one threaten to sue me if I tested one of his motors (that I paid for and owned). Not everyone wants performance data about their motors made public. Then they have to dispute or prove otherwise....or agree like 99% have done.

The numbers in my post you are so concerned with can be found on any large scale form, they didn't come from me or thin air.
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