squiz1

howdy
just looking for some advice
looking to buy a fg marder or smartech buggy
but cant make up my mind
both have there pro & cons
i would like to make one buggy of out both but the expess would be to high
eg/shockers/engines/wheels/drive train/bodys(painted vs unpainted) & so on
all you fellas seam to know whats/what so i thought i would ask.
hoping some one can help with out too many byass comments

thankyou for your help

kengentry5000

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Squiz,

I live in the US so I bought the Duratrax Firehammer. Duratrax has these units built by Smartech so they are virtually identical. I bought the buggy slightly used but in great shape. My previous experience was a 1:10 scale electric stadium truck.

I have not seen an FG Marder/MB/MT firsthand so I can't provide expert advice on those vehicles.

If I had it to do over again, I would have bought the FG Marder simply because FG support and aftermarket upgrade parts are more readily available. I typically "bash" my vehicle on construction sites in town and have had a lot of fun with it. I have also broken a lot of plastic suspension parts. These plastic parts are readily available from Duratrax (Tower or local shops by ordering). I am seriously contemplating replacing plastic suspension parts with Elcon brand alloy parts to enhance the durability of the car. The reason way I wish I would have bought the FG Marder instead is that there are slight differences between the cars where FG Marder parts may not work the same on Duratrax or Smartech. There have been several FG/Elcon dealers that have been very helpful in trying to provide the correct parts list for the alloy upgrades but it's not straight forward.

Also, the CY brand engine on the Duratrax and Smartech is a good engine (23 cc) but the Zenoah on the FG cars is a better quality engine. I may never have any trouble with my CY engnie (my cheap weed-eater engine has run great without maintenance for 6 years) but you never know.

The Smartech kit is available in the US via mail-order only but I have never seen a dealer in several different shops in different cities I have visited. I don't know of any spare parts distributors. If Smartech is a big brand "down under" and you can easily order all spare parts, then that's a big help. If you can't get the parts readily for the Smartech, again I would recommend the FG Marder.

Another problem that Duratrax has that Smartech may have (and again I can't speak about FG) is that the manual included is very poor. I constantly have to rely completely on the exploded diagram to answer my questions or use this forum to solicit advice and help. It really bugs me that a product that costs close to $1000 USD would not have a decent manual that explains in detail how to set up the vehicle and do simple repairs. Right now I need to refill/rebuild my Firehammer shocks. There is no published documentation on how to do this. I have had to rely on parts diagrams and forum help. I work for a major industrial equipment manufacturer and have sold consumer electronics in the past. Comprehensive documentation is not optional on our equipment nor is it so on consumer electronics. You get a better manual with a $100 DVD player than a $1000 RC model. That's inexcusable in my opinion.

You will spend $200 or more extra for the FG Marder over the Smartech Traveller but it will more than pay for itself in parts availability and support. For me, the piece of mind that FG is the popular large-scale kit that all after-market manufacturers want to make parts for is worth the extra. FG has been making the Marder (and improving it) over the last 10 - 15 years. Smartech and Duratrax are recent entries into the marketplace which is going to make it harder to develop support info on.

In my family there is an old saying, "When is a bargain not a bargain?" In this case it's not a bargain if you break parts a lot and can't keep spares on hand and have problems upgrading to alloy parts when the time is right.

If you have the extra money I would encourage you to go for the FG Marder.

Let us know what you get.

Good luck,
Ken

kengentry5000

My Feedback: (2)

By the way, if the Marder comes with a clear body, you can order a white body for the Duratrax Firehammer from Tower. I'm pretty sure the Marder is available in the white body with a sticker kit. If FG tries to rip you off on the stickers (extra money), go without stickers or order the Firehammer stickers. To be honest, after bashing your kit for a while the body will not look that great anyway. It's going to get scratched and scuffed. The people on the forum that show these pristine pictures of their Marders, MBs and MTs probably have a bashing body and a "show" body for after cleaning up the model after a day of running. Maybe I'm mistaken about FG body wear, but after running and bashing my Firehammer around for a few months I can't imagine how any large scale vehicle body is going to stay pristine unless you are only running it in a parking lot and never flip it.

Ken

squiz1

hi
ken thankyou for you advice
here in australia we have two fg retailers that i now of
smartech on the other hand have one wholesailer that i think can supply parts at a steady rate
i know that the fg is better quality & a little bit more exspensive
but making a dissision is hard with out knowing which would be best

thanks

Mad Wax

Go with car with the best parts supplier. No point saving money and buying a cheaper car if it's harder to buy parts (especially if you might have to order from abroad)

It's one thing buying a single RC car from abroad, but another matter when you need a fairly regular stream of replacement parts. I don't know of any those FG clone makers in the UK, and if they're slightly different and incompatible parts I would rather pay the extra £100 for the model in first place-knowing that FG have a large dealer base and continued large amount of spares for current and especially for older generations of the kits.

kengentry5000

My Feedback: (2)

Usually the German made original is going to better than a Chinese made copy. The company I work for makes gasoline pumps. We have parts suppliers all over the world. I am a software engineer. Recently we used a German subsidiary company for a new receipt printer. These guys were great to work with. Their attention to detail was great and they were very helpful at every step in the design process. Our Chinese suppliers (on the other hand) are primarily trying to win our business on cost. We have had many problems with quality of parts that cause us a lot of problems with our customers in the field. If the supplier decisions were left solely to our engineering department, China would be the last supplier choice in almost all situations. European, Pacific Rim (including Japan and Korea) and US parts suppliers usually supply the best quality, best documented parts that give us the least trouble. These non-Chinese suppliers are more expensive usually but are worth it from an engineering standpoint.

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in a wholesale distributor to help you with your Traveller. If you have a couple of local hobby shops that sell FG, I would encourage you to talk with them in depth about the cars and about why you are still considering the Traveller (setting aside the cost difference). I would bet that the hobby shop employees who have been around FG for a while will be able to exhaustively answer all questions from experience and give you peace of mind that FG is the way to go (without having to "trash talk" the Smartech).

I'd bet the wholesaler of the Smartech kits wants your money foremost and does not want to spend time helping you learn how to get the most out of your new car.

Ken

kengentry5000

My Feedback: (2)

Duratrax dealers are plentiful in the US (4 within 30 miles of my house) but most don't carry the Firehammer and its parts in the store because it does not sell as well as the less expensive electric and nitro vehicles (1:10 and 1:8 scale). FG makes ONLY large scale cars so FG dealers are going to have large scale cars and parts stocked. Unfortunately there are no local shops that are FG dealers anywhere near me.

Duratrax is good at having spares available to dealers and Tower Hobbies almost always has the parts ready to ship but I miss being able to go into my local shop on a whim and pick up the parts I need. The only vehicle I know you can do that for in the US consistently is the Traxxas T-Maxx. The T-Maxx is the best selling kit consistently so dealers carry tons of parts for them. I don't care for Traxxas or nitro so that is why I have the Duratrax 1:10 scale electric stadium truck and the Duratrax Firehammer.

Unless one is an expert in the hobby and is comfortable with the possibility of having trouble getting replacement parts, going to a local shop that carries large-scale vehicles is a smart choice.

Ken

squiz1

well ken your right about the sellers
they cant tell me much about the smartech parts but they are all avalible/ but i think they wouldnt be hard to get
were as the fella that sells fgs has been a great help & has answered all my questions (eg to fit steel gears to a smartech you have to change the complete drive train $200 plus)were as the fg is cheeper to up grade
so he has help me a fair bit and is trying to do a pritty good deal on a marder or mt
i think hearing other opinions as help a fair bit because i dont know much about 1/5 scale

I have got a monster pirate mt that every time i take it for a run it breaks & im sort i jack of it because its cost me alot of $$$$$$$$$$$
so i hope the 1/5 scale is alot stronger
thanks again

squiz1

thankyou for your help all but i must go to bed because it 12.30 am here and i have a big day at work
so i hope to talk again tonight

thanks

kengentry5000

My Feedback: (2)

Understand about getting sleep. It's mid-morning here in the US ;-)

You *will* break plastic suspension parts and plastic gears on any 1/5 scale at some point. You are pushing 20+ pounds of machine at up to 35 - 40 miles per hour. Something is going to break when you land a jump badly, hit a curb, etc. If you intend to stay with plastic suspension parts, then carry spares of the front upper and lower arms in your box. I also bent a front lower hinge pin in my last accident (hit a rock at speed).

Many Elcon alloy parts owners on this forum have been very happy with the durability of the Elcon alloy parts. The Elcon parts are not cheap (~$500 USD for a complete front end) but will pay for itself in the long run with 'uptime' (not having to replace broken plastic). The other aluminum/alloy parts brands are not as good as the Elcon (the dealers of the other brands of parts freely admit this fact).

Ken

SELWA

My Feedback: (1)

If you want a buggy go with the leopard race. More expensive but comes with some nice upgrades. Pipe, longer chassis, ball drives and nicer body! However if you set on the Marder I'd still get the Monster Beetle. Great for bashing and has tons of torque and ground clearance. I've driven mine through3 ft high dry grass in the spring! You can still get a set of spiked wheels later. For under $100US you can use the Firehammer wheels. (unless you want to put on cable/hydro brakes then they won't work) The shell of the MB is much stronger than any of the other shells but lets more dirt inside. Also most fg's come with a 260 engine and the others come with a 230. The tank on a firehamer is only 500ml and the fg's are 700ml. Little things that all stack up. If you get a FG you'll be happy an you can upgrade without any problems.

Let us know what you decide!

kengentry5000

My Feedback: (2)

You're killing me SELWA! Kinda wish I would have gone FG Monster Beetle instead of Firehammer but would have freaked the wife out with sticker shock (stock MB + servos + radio = $1300+, got the gently used firehammer + upgraded throttle brake servo for about $650).

I want to upgrade the Firehammer front end to Elcon alloy so I can get the durability up. Looks like I have the right parts list to order but won't know until I try to fit the parts on my car.

I have several stress cracks on my Firehammer body. I don't know if the MB body is prone to cracking after a while.

Ken

mnf1sand

The monster beetle body outlast any other bodies by far. they roll back to there wheels very nicely also. The CrazyNutRacing alloy parts are every bit as good as the elcon.

drevil

My Feedback: (5)

I think your decision has to be based on two things. First off parts availability. As long as you can get parts for both of them i dont see how you can go wrong either way.

The second thing you have to think about is how much you intend to upgrade. Personally i plan on a doing a few motor mods, but i'm not into spend a gazillion dollars on alloy parts so either car would work for me. If you intend to buy alot of alloy parts then you're probably better off with the FG because aftermarket support for their cars is much better.

I'm still a little sketchy on the whole duratrax/smartech/carson cars. Although they seem to have proven themselves durability wise i still have a problem with anything that is mass produced by chinese factories. For example..... I have a chinese "goped" scooter. The chinese factories that make these scooters produce a ton of them, and there are many many variations of each model. Parts availability is pretty good because there are so many of them out there, but since there were so many variations, and since most of the parts were built with little thought for replacement part support trying to actually get parts to fit these scooters is hit and miss. Tolerances aren't what you'd expect so sometimes parts fit like they are supposed to, and other times the parts are totally different, or just different enough so they don't interchange. Hopefully this isn't the case with the large scale cars we're talking about, and hopefully companies like Duratrax will make sure the replacement parts keep coming, and that those replacement parts are to the same tolerances of the originals.

Like i said, either way you probably can't go wrong. Overall i'm very pleased with my FG Marder, its held up extremely well to the beatings i've thrown at it. On the other hand i'm not totally sure i wouldn't have gone with a firehammer since my local hobby shop can now order parts for it for me.

Good luck with your decision, let us know what you get.

badz

My Feedback: (1)

All Duratrax Firehammer parts will fit the Smartech/Carson/XTM...Smartechs just rebranded is all.

FG's are built better than the clone's any day from what I've seen. But they do also cost more. Parts for FG's are also available easily in the states. Most by mail order(online) but none the less they are there.
Honestly from what i've seen the ONLY clone that comes with a decent air filter system is the Firehammer...the rest will blow up in high dust area's without a upgraded filter.... If it was my choice....I'd go with a FG. However I do have a Traxxas MB which is pretty tough also but it's bad point is parts are only available thru Traxxas....FG's are becoming more popular also and as that happens more and more parts are located easier in the states.

squiz1

hi all

thankyou to all that have answered my question. Have been a great help
I think Ill go the fg because i dont think parts are a problem (bit exspesive) but you get what you pay for
next is the dission what to get
EG) monster truck/then have the options to covert to monster beetle/marder/marder big foot (which is the one i really like)
at less exspence than to get a marder then upgrade
Ill show some pics of what i like later(havent worked out how to get them on here
I will be definitle be dealing with my local fella who is doing a very good job of answering all my questions & helping me deside
but it is my money & Im just making shaw i make the choise & dont regret getting the wrong FG

thanks
squiz1

Mad Wax

Visit the video section and download a few MB/MT/Marder/Leopard movies, at least give a idea how they handle. Generally I think the Marder is good choice, better handling and less likely to flip, less likely to do wheelies so better for beginner in local field & proper racing.

gonsped69

My Feedback: (6)

Since I own both brands - although not of the same model, an (FG Sportsline 2004 and a Smartech Bigfoot MT) - I believe my comments would have a little more ground than some speculations.

There is a notion that all "Made in China" products are somewhat inferior and you get what you pay for, but I personally was somewhat surprised with the quality of manufacture of the Smartech large scale RC models. If I were to hand you Smartech and FG parts side by side without telling which is which, there is no way you'd known the difference.

I have dissassembled an FG Sporstline 2004, Smartech Traveller, Smartech Bigfoot MT - right down to every screw and comparing each and every part. To be brutally honest - and I know quite a few people will not agree to this - I really cannot find any weaknesses/negatives in the Smartech materials and build quality. If one thing I would complain would be their rather liberal use of red (strong) threadlock on the grub screws which causes removal almost impossible.

The Smartech large scale vehicles are more equipped and better finished than its FG competing products. i.e. complete anodized chassis vs. stock aluminum, full threaded/anodized shocks vs ecoline shocks, powder coated springs vs. standard steel springs, inclusion of gear cover vs. none, etc.

Yes, I do have to admit parts availability is a problem in some areas, this is due to the fact the factory is already producing over capacity in Guangdong. But check with your local hobby shops first.

In the end, it will come down to spare parts, however good value a vehicle is, no point buying it if you cannot replace a broken part with a spare. Since you're in Australia, check with hobby shops such as Kellett's down in Sydney for spare parts with these vehicles first. The last time I check, they had most in stock.

Don't get too excited with speculative opinions, ask the people that actually own these vehicles. I have yet to see any that legitimately complain with regards to their Travellers or Bigfoots. The minority that do complain, simply didn't have the right skills to command a large scale and then blame it on the vehicle

squiz1

ok
but what about steel gears and gear carrier for the smartech
you cant get any in australia
so you have to change the complete drive train to a fg one to get the steel gears to mesh right.
so correct me if im wrong
as im only new to this & only saying what i had heard but dont know if it is true
This is why im asking these type of questions Because i dont know
So when in doubt ask the experts that have fgs or smartechs or duratrax or carsons

sorry not trying to be smart just wanting the facts


squiz1

kengentry5000

My Feedback: (2)

Squiz,

I have heard that the spur/pinion spacing on the FG is not the same as the Smartech Traveller/Duratrax Firehammer. Unless you get more expert information to the contrary, I would expect that you will have to upgrade quite a bit in the gear train to go to FG sized stuff. Have you checked out http://www.VSModelSport.com? They have a Firehammer hop-up section where they say which FG parts will fit and which won't. The people there may also be able to directly speak about the gear issue if you email them. Maybe they have a solution to sell you if you get the Traveller.

Ken

squiz1

hi ken
yes your right that why if i buy the smartech its going to cost an extra $200 plus to upgrade
thats getting close to the fg price tag


squiz1

SELWA

My Feedback: (1)

It's always about parts!! I lucked out since my FG MB was bought used and then the FG MT (85% roller) also so I saved lots of $$ This let me upgrad big time. a new firehammer is around $1200RTR and a FG MB is around $1500RTR. Canadian prices!! I bought mine for $950 RTR and it was mint. as a bonus there were the front alloy uprights on already ($125CAD). The roller without an engine a few gears was only $250 so I lucked out big time there too. That's why I was able to go from the MB to the MT to a Monster Beetle Pro and now I use it as a monster marder pro. Not sure what to call it now anymore!!! Hey an FG is a FG!!

The Candian Distributor is only a 35 min drive and they have a room just for FG stuff which they've carried for over 12 years!! If there are any mods I'm looking for other that FG I can always order.

Get what you can afford and service. Once you have one and you see the breaking/stripping areas then you can upgrade or get spare parts for it.

kengentry5000

My Feedback: (2)

I have ruined/replaced my spur/pinion setup once. I beleive the pinion melted because I was running in high grass. The Duratrax spur/pinion gears were about $8 USD.

By the way, if you go Smartech, avoid XTM racing parts if possible! Smartech also makes the XTM 1/5 buggy (all three cars are identical) but XTM has a lot more profit built into their parts. When I needed a gas tank and pinion gear the Duratrax parts were on back order (gas tanks still are). My local shop also sells XTM so we decided to substitute the XTM parts. I trust the shop guys so I did not have them check out the prices. The XTM parts were about 800% (8x) more expensive than the IDENTICAL Duratrax parts. If you need parts, cross check your Smartech or XTM parts prices against Duratrax on Tower Hobbies to ensure you're not getting ripped off.

Ken

squiz1

i just noted that you can tell who is reading this post at the top of the message board
sorry guys
i kept going to other posts then back again



squiz1

hpiguy

When giving your opinions I think it is only fair if you also include the fact that YOU SELL SMARTECH VEHICLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You sell them and by that fact alone are a little slanted in your evaluations.

I'd trust a guy that owned both and then gave an opinion, but I'd have to take the opinions of a guy that owns both but SELLS one and just so happens to claim that the one he sells is awesome with a grain of salt.

My buddy will be buying one of the XTM (Smartech) trucks from a dealer and we'll do a direct comparison of quality with my FG MT5. We don't sell ANYTHING so we'll give it a fiar shot. Besides if I gave his truck a bad review and he loved it he'd call me on it right away.