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OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

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OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

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Old 03-19-2008, 04:04 PM
  #126  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

Also, I don't believe that the sales of a few king motors cars has any impact whatsoever on China's invasion plans for the West, or their overall economy. I mean, 1/5th scale is a niche market in any region. Seriously, lets not get carried away here. If they start cloning patriot missiles (which I'm sure they do), let me know.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:30 PM
  #127  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

People seem to forget that these cars are being illegally made. Clones are illegal. They are ethically wrong. illegal. wrong. They are stealing. HPI Makes $0.00 per clone sold. That means it's STOLEN. When you buy one, you are supporting this illegal activity. Don't think you are any better then people that copy DVDs and sell them or illegally download and distribute music. That is the truth.

HPI Baja Forums closed down the clone section and deletes any clone discussions. Awesome! To quote the moderator- "I have closed the Clone section on this forum. All new discussions about the clones will be deleted by the Moderators."

I 100% believe that RCU should take a hard stance and delete clone discussions and threads. This should extend to any car/truck/helicopter/plane that is unlicensed and illegally sold. I am going to soon petition RCU to take this position. Why? Because I love my hobby and I want people that work hard for my hobby to get rewarded for hard honest work. I believe in brand loyalty and I believe that something worth buying is worth waiting for. I don't need it right now and I don't need instant gratification. I will work hard for it and I will but it legitimately.

This goes far beyond cloned RC cars folks. Americans totally want instant gratification and they want everything cheaper and faster and they would just assume buy it overseas then pay a little more to keep their friend or neighbors in business.

You all keep buying your clones, but don't assume it is harmless and that it doesn't have long term implications and don't kid yourself, you are supporting illegal activity.
The HPI Baja 5 was mass produced in China....you think HPI had it mass produced in the USA???

Why do you think alot of us are waiting on shippments/Containers from China with the Baja 5 SS in it???? Its made in china!!!

Its cheaper for HPI to use out of country labor, they get a BIG tax credit from the Feds for doing that!!!


1 large factory in China one side made the hpi baja .............the other side made the clone thats how they made the clone


Oh yea if you need parts for the clone you can get them at
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=HPIC0600&P=Z

Almost all the parts are innchangable.... 90% are just like all the other clones

I didnt hear anyone *****in when durratrax coppied FG and made the firehammer.....FG is still is business and doing great

If the clones were illegal...Customs would confiscate them comming in to the USA.....wouldnt they??
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:32 PM
  #128  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

Ok, so can't say its a clone of the Marder, what is the XRC buggy a clone of? I asked this question many times?
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:59 PM
  #129  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market


ORIGINAL: hellya

1 large factory in China one side made the hpi baja .............the other side made the clone thats how they made the clone
HPI denies that, in writing.
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:01 PM
  #130  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

I bet HPI wont deny a big tax credit for a foriegn labor contract So whos really giving people jobs in other countries?


I was joking about the large warehouse we all know how they copy stuff
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:02 PM
  #131  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

they say alot, in writing!
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:56 AM
  #132  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

I'm with Dale on this, RCU (and its Mods) are pro clone and that ain't right. I believe they are illegal and that is why no hobby shops stock them, in the US or Australia. If you don't like the price of a particular make or model then bad luck, don't buy it. I can't afford a ferarri does that mean China should make cheap ones for me, no. Also just because some company has cloned in the past doesn't make it OK now, back then the internet was much smaller and places like this were very small or non existant but it still angered the people it affected. Sure the cheap price allows more people into the hobby but how many of those have given up because there cheap nasty clone kept breaking.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:53 AM
  #133  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

XRC is a BAD clone of the Technokit. Funny how XRC drove Technokit to just buy from XRC, Technokit gave up trying to defend from the clone the clone won. But boy is it BAD.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:56 AM
  #134  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

I didnt hear anyone ****in when durratrax coppied FG and made the firehammer.....FG is still is business and doing great
Durratrax is made by Smartech now a respected member of RCU. FG has never come on here but Smartech has that should show you something. LOL
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:46 PM
  #135  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

This is all a natural part of economics. Consumers create demand, demand creates competition, competition improves quality and cost. Why dont you just let it continue its natural cycle and get over it.
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:53 PM
  #136  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market


ORIGINAL: Dale Gribble

People seem to forget that these cars are being illegally made. Clones are illegal. They are ethically wrong. illegal. wrong. They are stealing. HPI Makes $0.00 per clone sold. That means it's STOLEN. When you buy one, you are supporting this illegal activity. Don't think you are any better then people that copy DVDs and sell them or illegally download and distribute music. That is the truth.

HPI Baja Forums closed down the clone section and deletes any clone discussions. Awesome! To quote the moderator- "I have closed the Clone section on this forum. All new discussions about the clones will be deleted by the Moderators."

I 100% believe that RCU should take a hard stance and delete clone discussions and threads. This should extend to any car/truck/helicopter/plane that is unlicensed and illegally sold. I am going to soon petition RCU to take this position. Why? Because I love my hobby and I want people that work hard for my hobby to get rewarded for hard honest work. I believe in brand loyalty and I believe that something worth buying is worth waiting for. I don't need it right now and I don't need instant gratification. I will work hard for it and I will but it legitimately.

This goes far beyond cloned RC cars folks. Americans totally want instant gratification and they want everything cheaper and faster and they would just assume buy it overseas then pay a little more to keep their friend or neighbors in business.

You all keep buying your clones, but don't assume it is harmless and that it doesn't have long term implications and don't kid yourself, you are supporting illegal activity.
Why are you so brand loyal? PART of buisiness is competition. Havent you seen fruity o's in the cereal isle? Havent you seen "ibuprophin" instead of advil? The truth of the matter is that depending on the current economy, consumers will purchase market 2nds: Fruity O's and the KM Baja. Also, this competition brings out the quality in the higher quality models, making them premium. Look, we pay $1000.00 for something that costs about $200.00 to manufacture. SOMETHING is wrong there. If everyone started buying these clones, HPI would be forced to release a higher quality product, perhaps provide a bumper to bumper warranty or do something different. Perhaps they would even change their model and start selling these at $550 a peice and completely dominate the market! Let consumer choice drive the market NOT brand loyalty.
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:09 PM
  #137  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market


ORIGINAL: Dale Gribble

HPI Baja Forums closed down the clone section and deletes any clone discussions. Awesome! To quote the moderator- "I have closed the Clone section on this forum. All new discussions about the clones will be deleted by the Moderators."
Im not a Pro clone or Pro Brand, Im Pro for freedom of choice, And for forums banning topics or discussion on a subject, where is the freedom of speach. Just because you may not like somthing you should not force your views onto others.

All companies have a choice to lower their prices to within reason the Stock B5 still costs over $1100 here in the Uk, So who is really making the money ?
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:42 PM
  #138  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

ORIGINAL: Dale Gribble

HPI Baja Forums closed down the clone section and deletes any clone discussions. Awesome! To quote the moderator- "I have closed the Clone section on this forum. All new discussions about the clones will be deleted by the Moderators."
The moderator must be alittle bit of a Control Freak......suppressing ideas and thoughts...or mabey he had to many poeple crying to him about the clones....how illegal they are ( which they are not).


Almost every 1/5 vehicle has a clone.......none of those clones are illegal.

Even the clones are being cloned/copied none of them are illegal



Durratrax is made by Smartech now a respected member of RCU. FG has never come on here but Smartech has that should show you something. LOL
Shows me that after time people will wrap their minds around the fact that all 1/5 vehicles.... be it clones or original are accepted as part of our hobby. FG doesnt need to show up here their vehicles speak for themselves

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Old 03-20-2008, 02:48 PM
  #139  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

Must be chinese whispers
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:59 PM
  #140  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

I can tell you Rob at HBF is a very honest and good guy, and i bet he got sick of the fighting from the "don't buy a clone guys and us that bought one to save money" There was some real battles over there, i was involved (sorry Rob). That is a great site, but "some" are very narrow minded. And some like me are just idiots sometimes!!! LOL It got to the point i was just being a dik because it was pissing off some key people. HBF is for HPI baja guys and not clones.
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:23 PM
  #141  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

ORIGINAL: jackle
Why are you so brand loyal? PART of buisiness is competition. Havent you seen fruity o's in the cereal isle? Havent you seen "ibuprophin" instead of advil? The truth of the matter is that depending on the current economy, consumers will purchase market 2nds: Fruity O's and the KM Baja. Also, this competition brings out the quality in the higher quality models, making them premium. Look, we pay $1000.00 for something that costs about $200.00 to manufacture. SOMETHING is wrong there. If everyone started buying these clones, HPI would be forced to release a higher quality product, perhaps provide a bumper to bumper warranty or do something different. Perhaps they would even change their model and start selling these at $550 a peice and completely dominate the market! Let consumer choice drive the market NOT brand loyalty.
Well said, when your product is cloned, it is a sign that you have to step it up, and stay ahead of the cloners by innovating something new. If Detroit, Japan and Korea can put out new model cars every year certainly HPI could make some interesting changes instead of milking the cow. I definitely feel that without these "clones" we would not move forward.
And lets get another thing straight, KM stuff is not illegal, not even close. HPI does not own a patent on that design or any part of the Baja, I checked! The only thing they have a right to is the model number Baja 5b. If you do not patent, it is up for grabs, and perfectly legal. Somebody find me a patent on the HPI Baja 5b design, go ahead. It does not exist. Where is the illegality? What about all the Jap motorcycles that are designed to look like Harley Davidsons? Is Yamaha or Suzuki Breaking any laws? Fact is it is almost impossible to get a patent on a design of something as complex as a motorcycle or RC car. If you have something unique (Like Harley's Vtwin Evo motor) that can be patented. But the design is tough to pin down.

I get disgusted that some forums actually ban this type of discussion about clones. The only reason they do this is because they are either sponsored by a manufacturer that puts pressure on them, or they are run or sponsored by someone in the Hobby business. Clones are not something that is found in your Local Hobby shop, and most hobby shop owners hate clones.

I feel it is blatant censorship for selfish reasons, and they hide behind the legality issue. I have heard people bash hop-up suppliers such as Integy because they copy something. I have even heard the same people call what they do thievery. Don't hide behind the legal curtain, none of this is illegal, not even in the least bit. The main reason forums ban this type of stuff is because they lose money. I am willing to bet if KingMotors were to contact one of these forums and say we would like to advertise on your board with a banner, and I understand that HPI might get mad at you and not advertise, but to cover this loss I will pay you double what they do for an ad. All of a sudden clones will be out there just like FG and the rest. If anyone has ever gotten a chance to see one of the KM clones I hear they are the real deal, 98% exact. My next one will be a KM and I will recommend them to all. Why? Because HPI is not doing anything about it at all. They should lower their prices already and come out with an improved model/design and keep it fresh.

GO CLONES!!! And 100% Legal
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:17 PM
  #142  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

ORIGINAL: dawolf
And lets get another thing straight, KM stuff is not illegal, not even close. HPI does not own a patent on that design or any part of the Baja, I checked!
Also, to add to our points here, even if they did have a pattent. Isnt it true that a patent is only good for so many years? Isnt the purpose of the patent expiring in order to PROTECT the consumer and encourage all of the good things that come from competition? It is my understanding that the purpose of the patent is to allow the manufacturer adequate time to establish a foothold on the market for their product. After that, fair competition must be allowed. The business of america is business! GO CLONES!
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:41 PM
  #143  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

All verygood points about cloned RC cars but really it is irrelivent, they are here to stay! as pointed out there are no Patent's out for Baja 5b, or any other RC car for that matter, the cost to do so is too high!

The long term thing for 1/5 scale and that is what we are talking about here (largescale RC cars) will be the same as Nitro cars the clones for Nitro have brought the retail price of the name brand cars down! so the question will be "Will the clones for 1/5 scale bring the brand name cars, prices down?" and will the new companies of 1/5 scale in China develop the cars further, not just clone them????

So far we have seen Smartech clone FG cars and now develop there own 1/5 cars in the Titain and sure there will be more from SMT.
XRC have cloned the Tecnokit Jr, and I now they weren't verygood at the start, but they have but the time and effort in to fix problems and develop the car more to the stage Tecnokit buy the Jr car from XRC and also the buggy RC-2.

I few years ago the same thing happened in Mini-moto bikes, clones where made in China from bikes made in Italy, but look what has happened with them... in the end there was too many mini-moto manufacturers in China and the price you can buy these for is so small I don't know how they can do it! I know of a few companies in China that was making mini-moto and now make 1/5 cars.

There are more and more manufacturers popping up in China with 1/5 cars some rubbish some great!

There will always be clones no matter what!
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:47 PM
  #144  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

Ok, sorry, but I am not done with this post yet..... I mean this all in the spirit of good debate! [8D][8D][8D]

People seem to forget that these cars are being illegally made.
Show me the patent... What does illegally made mean? Are you saying the company isnt allowed to make plastic parts or something, without a patent you must have some other "legal" reson you're talking about... Isnt a "hop up" part designed by someone essentially somewhat of a copy of a part? Should we not allow "hop ups"? If you buy a car made of all hop up's, isnt it a clone of the car? If you're using the argument that its a different material, I guarantee all clones are technically made of different material... Does that make the car illegal? Regardless, there is no patent, and even if there was, patents expire to harbor competition...

Clones are illegal. They are ethically wrong. illegal. wrong. They are stealing.
We already talked about illegal and last I checked, competition is ethical. The united states has "fruit loops" and "fruity O's" you need to go picket a grocery store because there's LOTS of cloning going on there!

HPI Makes $0.00 per clone sold. That means it's STOLEN.
I'm not sure where this logic is coming from. Does that mean my fruity O's are stolen?

When you buy one, you are supporting this illegal activity.
Now you are accusing me of a crime which I dont think you are certain is illegal.

Don't think you are any better then people that copy DVDs and sell them or illegally download and distribute music. That is the truth.
That is called copyright infringement. http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf The reason they passed this in 1998 is because there was no way to control it previously. Right now there is no law to control this, and until the public decides they need to, it is not illegal.


HPI Baja Forums closed down the clone section and deletes any clone discussions. Awesome! To quote the moderator- "I have closed the Clone section on this forum. All new discussions about the clones will be deleted by the Moderators."
Something tells me you are not too comfortable with democracy.

I 100% believe that RCU should take a hard stance and delete clone discussions and threads. This should extend to any car/truck/helicopter/plane that is unlicensed and illegally sold. I am going to soon petition RCU to take this position.
You might find iran a better country to live in that suits your beliefs more based on this statement. I completely understand a buisiness/website moderating "talk" because of their sponsors, however, its NEVER something I would ASK for. What you are saying is you WANT censorship.


Because I love my hobby and I want people that work hard for my hobby to get rewarded for hard honest work.
Why cant the reward for your hard, honest work be a clone?

I believe in brand loyalty and I believe that something worth buying is worth waiting for. I don't need it right now and I don't need instant gratification. I will work hard for it and I will but it legitimately.
Basically you are saying you enjoy the anticipation and that because its so high priced, possibly higher quality, you appreciate it even more. That is simply your personality. I personally like to get the maximum value from my hard work, but everyone has the right to spend their money the way they want right?


This goes far beyond cloned RC cars folks. Americans totally want instant gratification and they want everything cheaper and faster and they would just assume buy it overseas then pay a little more to keep their friend or neighbors in business.
This is a contradictary statement. Instant gratification and buying something overseas to not go together. Instant gratification is ordering it from the closest place possible. Lets have a race, you buy from overseas, i'll buy from tower, see who gets it first.

You all keep buying your clones, but don't assume it is harmless and that it doesn't have long term implications and don't kid yourself, you are supporting illegal activity.
These clones will only bring good for the consumer. I dont think I need to elaborate on that.

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Old 03-20-2008, 04:56 PM
  #145  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

Oh yea, I just thought of one more thing to compare as well. Golf club knock off's. These are perfectly legal in the US. We have a shop right here that sells 100% knock offs. Everyone who plays golf knows about them and the original manufacturers try to stay ahead of the game by keeping their prices lower and keeping their product quality higher.
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:43 PM
  #146  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

Looks like LSF may go the same way as HBF on the "NO CLONE" postings. BS!!!

http://www.****************.com/foru...9998#post19998

largescale forums .com
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:55 PM
  #147  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

HBF and LSF are two totally different places. I believe the clones will stay on LSF.
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Old 03-20-2008, 08:10 PM
  #148  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

Lets hope so, i don't want to tell anyone over at LSF they can't join just because they bought a cheap POS.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:28 PM
  #149  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

I just wanted to add my 2 cents. For all of you defending HPI because of the baja clones............

Hpi loves china and No name models made in china THATS WHY THEY SELL """HOT BODIES"""

Thas my point......
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Old 03-21-2008, 07:33 AM
  #150  
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Default RE: OFFICIAL Discussion for the Pros and Cons of Clones in the Market

So why arent there many clones of ferrari's?
Is it because they are all made in italy?

If companies dont want their designs to be copied, surely manufacture them in their country of origin,
and dont get them made cheaper in china. Then the cloners whould not be able to clone them
as easily. 10000 models going out front door double that amount going out the back etc.

I work in graphic art industry, and as far as i knew i can take any photo from google image search
and if i change it significantly its perfectly legal to use it on my next job for a customer.

Can anyone correct me here?
(actually havent used photos from image search, but believed it was legal if i changed it enough)

I think the rc car manufacturers dont really give a damn about this discussion we having.
They just designing their next model to sell more than the next company.

So a bit of a silly discussion really?
good read tho, cheerrs.
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