hellya

Thats right we here in the USA dont have corrupt politicians.......oppppppps we do[:-]

So when you pay taxes your sending your money to a ............... ( you fill in the blank)

snoking16

lol....we are sending money to our politicians so they can spend $80,000 on hookers.

Foxy

No politics please guys.

naynay12

Pros: They cost less.
Cons: Everything else.

DarkFire989

Yeah I saw that, it looks really nice, just dont like the body though[:'(] If I were to get one, I would just buy the MCD body and put it on(If it fits).

hellya

The alloy 4x4 version its available now $1100 plus shipping...Yes the baja body fits Stock body I dont like

Dale Gribble

My Feedback: (4)

People seem to forget that these cars are being illegally made. Clones are illegal. They are ethically wrong. illegal. wrong. They are stealing. HPI Makes $0.00 per clone sold. That means it's STOLEN. When you buy one, you are supporting this illegal activity. Don't think you are any better then people that copy DVDs and sell them or illegally download and distribute music. That is the truth.

HPI Baja Forums closed down the clone section and deletes any clone discussions. Awesome! To quote the moderator- "I have closed the Clone section on this forum. All new discussions about the clones will be deleted by the Moderators."

I 100% believe that RCU should take a hard stance and delete clone discussions and threads. This should extend to any car/truck/helicopter/plane that is unlicensed and illegally sold. I am going to soon petition RCU to take this position. Why? Because I love my hobby and I want people that work hard for my hobby to get rewarded for hard honest work. I believe in brand loyalty and I believe that something worth buying is worth waiting for. I don't need it right now and I don't need instant gratification. I will work hard for it and I will but it legitimately.

This goes far beyond cloned RC cars folks. Americans totally want instant gratification and they want everything cheaper and faster and they would just assume buy it overseas then pay a little more to keep their friend or neighbors in business.

You all keep buying your clones, but don't assume it is harmless and that it doesn't have long term implications and don't kid yourself, you are supporting illegal activity.

No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

Here we go again. Not that i want to start another BS war. Personally I would like to know how King Motors stole severel thousand sets of HPI Dirtbuster tires. And severel thousand sets of identical parts for their clone?

The HPI Baja forum is for the Baja 5b enthusiest (excuse me spelling) Its great for 5b stuff, hop ups, and general HPI stuff, the rest of it should not be there anyway, its not a general site for RC talk, like RCU is. And i'm sure RCU doesn't know what the legallity is on wether the clones are legal or not, and i'm sure they don't care. Just don't try to sell one in the forums area.

Dale Gribble

My Feedback: (4)

They didn't steal the parts, they stole the design and remanufactured it. Stealing is stealing. Physically taking something or taking cad drawings and remanufacturing it without authorization is still stealing.

RCU gets paid by legitimate sponsors who legally manufacture products. RCU gets paid to operate by the legitimate manufacturers. So they should operate the site in the interest of the people that pay their bills. It is unethical to be supported by legitimate companies and then allow the illegitimate companies to get any publicity at all and hurt the sales of their legitimate advertisers.

No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

Now that you clerified that, i hope they don't shut down the clone section, and i'm sorry to any legitimate person/company losing money, but there is some good people with clones, bringing good ideas to this largescale sport.

Dale Gribble

My Feedback: (4)

If those people are bringing good ideas, then they should definitely innovate and make their own products. I would be totally cool with that and wish them the best.

No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

I second that.

jtnktz

My Feedback: (4)

The only reason why I bought a clone is for this:

I had no idea if I personally was going to like the 1/5th scale hobby. These companies that are making clones are actually EXPANDING the 1/5th scale community. I would not have tried 1/5th scale if it wasn't for them. I'm sorry but I am not going to invest 1000+ dollars into something I'm not sure I'm going to like. Money is another issue for people. HPI needs to think about bringing their prices down a little bit.

Yes, morally it is wrong to support this. No, in no way is it going to kill HPI's buisness. It may bring down their sales maybe 1% maximum. People would rather buy name brand stuff than something thats not. I myself is saving for a SS version because I simply love this buggy.

Another thing to look at is if clones were really hurting HPI why haven't they taken any legal action if they are in fact "stolen". Yes I to believe that HPI is not affiliated with KM but why in the world is nothing being done about it. I know if it were killing my company I would be sure to sue them for what they are worth.

Foxy

Some legal clarification... It's not illegal in any way, outside the countries in which HPI holds a patent. By that token, all computers are IBM clones (as they were once referred to) and all cars are Ford clones, and all CDs are philips clones. It just doesn't fly, and the sooner HPI realise there's nothing they can do and just get on with it, the better. Furthermore, nowhere in the world is it illegal to own or buy one, only illegal to sell (where HPI holds a patent). So if you buy it from China, you're doing nothing illegal. That's just the law, immoral or not. I think clones are introducing much needed options to the market. Where are you on nitro clones? Of which there are now thousands... Does it harm HPI, that ACME copied the RS4? No, it gets them parts sales, and everyone knows the original HPI is better. I disagree with the 'it's wrong' point of view on many levels.

Funny, nobody starts complaining until a product they spent a thousand dollars on, is cloned. Nobody seems to care about the nitros.

No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

Nothing is said about the Marder also, FG started it. What about Yankee, they started the whole weedeater engine in rc cars didn't they?

jtnktz

My Feedback: (4)

Thats another thing that I forgot to mention, replacement parts. If I break a part I'm not going to go to China to get it replaced. Answer this, Would it cost more to buy all the parts separately to make a baja or to just buy a baja already put together? I am sure that HPI makes a lot of money to the clones. I know I have already ordered 3 sets of front A-Arms and 3 of rear.

Dale Gribble

My Feedback: (4)

That is the risk to operating overseas. China disregards all US law for copyrights and patents and will reverse engineer ANYTHING. That is a risk that HPI assumed to get cost down. 5B's would probably cost $1200 if they were manufactured in the U.S. China will do anything it takes to take Americans money from them.

So your argument is, money is all that matters and that it's ok for HPI employees to lose their jobs to Chinese knock off companies. You can argue the legality and thanks for the clarification but it's still completely unethical. Ethics just don't mean much though because we can get stuff cheaper right?

I wish that some of you guys would come up with something innovative and new and then have the design taken and mass produced illegally overseas and then be undersold by your own illegal design in your own country. Pretty crappy honestly.

Regarding the nitro comment, the nitro price differences aren't hovering around 50% like the 5B and other 1/5 clones. Nitro clones are within 20-30% of the legit product so more people are likely to pay the extra $100 for the legit one. We are talking $300-400 difference with 1/5 scale! That is the difference.

Dale Gribble

My Feedback: (4)

By the way Foxy, I mean no disrespect. I am just debating and it's absolutely not personal. I hope you feel the same way.

No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

I have said it before, HPI is a multi Million dollar company, 1% will not affect their bottom line. Its crappy to steal, yes, noone is arguing that. But HPI really clones a Marder. FG had the first sandrail type buggy with a weekeater engine. If you wanted to get down to the nitty gritty. Also if HPI really wanted, they could spend millions and put Kings motors under, but what would that prove? They are bullies? And just as jknktz said he is not going to go to china to buy parts for his clone, he is going to buy HPI parts.

Foxy

Of course, no worries.

But I don't understand what you're getting at, I don't see how the clones are going to cost HPI jobs. Sorry, you are simply taking this way too far, to it's extreme. If they were packing out hobby shops with them, then I'd say you have a point, but we both know that's not gonna happen.

Also, you know what it's like living in China? I say let them have some American (and British, I don't care) money. We are not short of greenbacks over here in the West. Let's be careful not to let capitalism, and the fact that WE HAVE got money, make us automatically correct. Who's to say it's not morally wrong to try to deprive them of the income they will make by cloning a couple of Western products. It's easy to sit in a palace and chant 'let them eat cake'. We all know what happened to Marie Antoinette!

I don't see it as right or wrong, honestly, I see it as logical. I'm one of the world's great realists (honestly), I'm very accepting of 'stuff' happening. 'Stuff' happens all the time to good and bad people. HPI should just get on with it, keep doing the good job they're doing, and rely on us hobbyists making the right decisions, and informing newcomers the pros and cons. Which we inevitably do. HPI are not losing anything here, you yourself were a victim of the fact that they underestimated demand by some 300%. The factories went into overdrive, and the board of HPI must still be wondering what on earth to do with this enormous glut of income. Excuse me if I have little to no sympathy for them, after they make 50% per unit, fail to keep up with demand, and STILL don't lower the prices one cent. THAT's pretty crappy, honestly.

Dale Gribble

My Feedback: (4)

So we all agree that it's unethical, but that somehow the cost overcomes ethics and justifies the purchase. If that is the case we are in agreement and I am done.

You can't say that HPI cloned the Marder anymore then you can say the Marder cloned the Traxxas Monster Buggy or that HPI cloned the T-Maxx to make the Savage. They are the same family e.g. Monster Trucks but entirely different platforms with different parts. If something is different, it isn't cloned. It is a competing product. Clones aren't a competing product.

No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

wow, well spoken Foxy!

Dale Gribble

My Feedback: (4)

China is getting very wealthy, the wealth just isn't permeating through the classes. The government gets most of the money. They are using American money to grow and surpass us economically, militarily and politically.

I hear what you are saying. You are looking micro and I am looking macro. You see the RC market clones and think they are harmless and the more the merrier. I think that undermining legitimate business has long term negative impact. It won't take months and it won't take years but there will be a point that we will pay for our desire for cheap Chinese crap at the expense of American jobs, manufacturing capability and innovation. China's middle class is growing and our is shrinking. At least when I pay HPI or Tower, American's get paychecks as a result of my purchase. When you pay for your knockoffs, there isn't a single American that benefits.

Dale Gribble

My Feedback: (4)

Or in your case Foxy, there isn't a single Brit that benefits.

Foxy

I couldn't care less, really. HPI can just make something else. They're not a struggling mom and pop shop. The HPI Baja SS will outsell the King Motors car 20 to 1 on any given sunday. I really don't see an issue here, unleess it gets out of control, then the governments WILL step in, just as they did on music and DVD reproductions.