No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

I'm sure HPI doesn't give a hoot about Kings motors, because they are working on the HPI BAJA 5T or something. They are a big company.
Also, isn't HPI a European company? I thought i read somewhere they started in Europe?

dawolf

So I think the subject of clones really hits home for some. I really think that alot of folks tend to put a face on the OEM (HPI racing in the case of the Baja), and tend to victimize them. As has been stated here, cloned systems keeps the companies like HPI honest. The desired effect is that their sales will drop off as a result of the cloned models, and gets the attention of the sales and marketing teams forcing them to drop prices, increase the value of purchasing from HPI. The cloners are not thieves or villains, quite the contrary. they create a direct competition and force companies to use budget to improve products and drop prices.
Perhaps one of the greatest examples is the Pharmaceutical industry. Most people view the pharma companies as the "Big bad pharmas", they make tons of money on a pill and sell them for $4.00 each, this is a crime. I think we could all agree that we know it takes alot of R&D to make a drug and those are really what we are paying for. But for how long should we be forced to pay those prices, this is a monopoly. How much is enough. The FDA and the US gov stepped in and said, 7-10 years, and then you must let the generic companies sell. Do their sales go down when the generics go to market? You bet. Do the Pharmas drop their prices then to compete with the generics? Yep. What does this cycle force the Pharmas to do? Keep innovating and keep coming out with the next drug (cash cow for 7-10 years). If patents were to be upheld indefinitely we would not have generics and we would be paying 10 times what we pay for medicine, and the Pharmas could just sit back and collect on a medicine they came up with 20 years ago.

Now, one would argue, "hey, drugs are not RC cars and surely you cannot equate life giving medicines to hobby RC cars" this is true, but the principle is the same, direct competition, and only direct competition are absolutely necessary for innovation. If somehow HPI were able to shutdown every clone mfg that tried to make a clone of their vehicle, we would never see an improved baja, and we would be paying 1500.00 for a new 5b forever.

Foxy brings up a great point that cloning in the Nitro car world helped to bring the prices down and inspired newer and more innovative offerings from the OEMs.

I would love to see a straight out survey on this topic to see how the community in general feels about it. It seems like a "hot button" topic and this may be a worthwhile survey. What do ya say Foxy?

Foxy

RCU aren't pro clones, or against them. PERIOD. We are here to serve the RC community. If it has an antenna, we cover it, whether it's made in China, or on the frickin moon.

No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

i finally have a good coversation, and its deleted. darn it.

hellya

heres the FS 4x4 buggy next to the baja clone (size comparison)

jackle

The HPI 5b clones are catching up! They are going for around $700+ on flea bay now. At that price it hardly seems worth it.

hellya

its called making a profit buy for $410 plus shipping..... sell for as much as you can get[sm=punching.gif]

thats the problem...... poeple will start charging almost as much for a clone as the real thing.

HammerdownRC

Considering the cost of:

Buggy: $410
EMS shipping: $145
Ebay and paypal fees: approx $60
Any possible customs: $$

$700 is barely turning a profit. My 2Cnts

No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

You forget, there is a large savings as hellya has said in the past for buying a crateful. So u need to factor in that also.

HammerdownRC

True...


King Motors told me $360 each if your buy a full container. I think that came out to around $90,000 for the product.. LOL. Shipping by sea using Panalpina came out to around $5000 for the container including all customs fees, unloading fees, Bunker adjustment factors (fuel surcharge levied by the carrier), merchandise processing fees, harbor maintenance fee, and a single bond entry fee. I don't know about you guys, but that's over my budget.

hellya

now get 2 other people split the $95,000

$31,666 each... a container has 220 pieces each person gets 73 units@ $433 each

selling for $700 plus shipping $50........... profit $317 x 73 vehicles $23,000 profit (barley turing a profit???)

$54,000 when your done a 72% profit minus BO taxes and federal 40-50% profit[:@]

HammerdownRC

LOL.... That's still over my capabilities..

No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

hellya

what no takers

jackle

I'll throw in $10K and take my share at cost if anyone wants in...

dawolf

Just out of curiousity to get an idea of how folks are split, there is a pro-clone/anti-clone survey on the forum.

No Moa

My Feedback: (1)

Not that i know of. I'm not split, i think all regular/clones should get a chance to shine!!!!

zeltava

In the words of Keith Richards "If there not pirating your music your not a succes". I see it the same way with the baja

turbodremz23

My Feedback: (16)

I support clones...we all do in one way or another...mabey not in the rc hobby world, but at some point in time when you went to the grocery store, you have bought the store brand or other brand...well thats a "clone" of the original..

I have a KM Baja clone, and as strong as it is, then for all the HPI owners that break parts, I salute you!

The point to all of this is personal choice and taste...I dont like black coffee, some people do..or better yet, how do you pronounce the word tomato, or potato? You may think I say it wrong, but I may think you say it wrong...get the point?

HPI is not a small company, and the 5B is not the only model they have on the market, and financially I dont think they are feeling a major downsize on 5B sales..but 99% of the KM parts are compatible with the 5B, so when something on a KM breaks, what do they buy to replace it? HPI parts.

In one way or another, the "mother company" as some have called them, still win in the end. They may not make the full profit off the sale of a 5B, but when you consider the costs of broken KM parts after a hard day/week/month of balls-out bashing, they still make their money.

I started with a clone for one reason, and only one reason...I got a good deal, and saved enough to replace weak parts with HPI/DDM/Dark Soul/Integy/etc..though it has not been cheap, I still have as much performance, if not more than a 5B SS plus some and have not spent the $950+ retail...plus HPI is about to make more off of me after my mistake of getting my KM into a fight with a tree earlier today and bending/cracking the front of the chassis..and I will now have spent as much as the 5B rtr kits retail price.

but to each his own..I own a clone, but still support HPI cause HPI supports my KM parts..

molsonrocks

I bought a Sheng Q clone and have nothing but problems, rolled it once and snapped the roll cage broke the spoiler into 4 pieces rear shocks are hammered out already and I just melted the spur gear smooth and Im only on second tank of fuel. The good thing is I am getting familiar with the parts and mechanics of it all.lol. By time Im done replacing the crap plastics on this clone I could have had the real deal. Everything else is good except anything plastic.Very cheap plastics used.Motor is great.

turbodremz23

My Feedback: (16)

I had the same problem with my roll cage and stock plastic gear...since I swapped for the HPI stock cage, and RR steel gears, no problems at all.

ea77

You get what you pay for. C'mon clones are low cost for a reason.

If you expect higher quality, get the original.

"Disassembly required" should be printed the box. haha

Expect to break parts, if everything is of low grade especially critical points like drive components, then weigh in the cost, is it worth it?

Just somehting to think about.

mbe301

Disassembly required
I think that's the best quote I've heard for the clones. AND COMPLETLY TRUE. If you buy a clone, check and recheck EVERYTHING! If you do, you'll save most of your headaches. The area the non-clones shine in is quality control and assembly. It would be nice to get clones as kits instead of slapped together, sometimes with leftover or completly incorrect screws, forced in, no loctite anywhere! I myself love clones, and know they are not as good as brand X, and I don't expect them to be. Most of the parts that will be needed are the same upgrades I would want(need) for brand X. I don't plan on racing or doing much "extreme" driving, just lots of fun. And now the whole family can come with me. Thanks to clones, I now have 5 (XRC-RC2, Shen-qi bigfoot and baja, FS 2WD buggy and truck, plus my nitros) The only thing I've bought upgrade parts for is the bigfoot truck. The rest will be as the kids and girlfriend break them[X(]
So far my costs (less shipping) is around $1500-1600 (yay ebay). If I had an initial layout of over $1000 for one, I'd still be getting frustrated starting and tuning my nitros. My first was the XRC-RC2 for under $300, and got the FS's for under $250ea (guy also has "buy it now" for 2WD-$299, my first 1/8 was more, alot more)! Clones will not kill the market, they help it grow. As my parts break, they will be replaced with non-clone and aftermarket hop-ups. = more money into the industry = more growth = more compitition = brand X coming out with better product to justify price

But, to each his own.

thrasher st1

g day guys, i bought myself a 5b ss recently and as much fun as it is, it gets a bit boring driving around by yourself. i want to get something similar for my young bloke. straight up, is the king motors clone worth the money or not. i can get one brand new for au$650 including postage as opposed to a genuine 5b for au$1400. anyone who can give me a straight answer will get my undying gratitude. thanks guys

turbodremz23

My Feedback: (16)

In my opinion, YES..the KM is worth it. I would, and most other KM owner will highly suggest upgrading the steering servo, and the radio system. Even with that you have not spent near the amount of cash as buying the rtr 5B..especially if you have a spare radio system and spare servo.

The shock shafts are a little weak, but can withstand some good hard abuse for a while.

read through this thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7249314/tm.htm

just about everything you need to know is there about the KM