dc2 man

very nice well discussed threads i must say.

good info here for newbies to clones.

well done foxy.

puff

thanks for all the info.
i too, have very limited $ and can not afford the real dea.
so, my take is get the clone and upgrade to the real deal....with my 13th birthday (not 13th yr. old, born on the 13th.), i have very good luck crashing and i am a crash expert by now.. (
i can crash two clone and some more...
with the real deal.. i am limited..well,maybe the real deal will caution me to drive safe and not to mix drink and drive so often

circa5angles

I'm going to push my point here. Ok its not that bad, clone or no clone.
For me I would like to get some sort of large scale. The hpi baja is choice number one, but here comes the reason I'm steering clear from it. All these manufactures bashing each other, then there seems to be select few groups going around bad mouthing and finding any flaw posible with some ones design. I'm all for discussing a product, but dont like reading the same groups of people going around bashing "said" product.

Now this is the reason I'm looking towards something diffrent, the new 2wd redcat is looking good to me. And it is not a clone as far as I know.

puff

i have to agree with you.
the redcat modified clone is going to stay and with the part support, it will be lot stable to play with.
just can not stand the wait.. anyone know when exactly redcat is going to sell the RTR???

looker2756

I almost hate to voice any opinion on this subject, as it is such a dangerous topic. But ....

I have a ton more respect for the Redcat 2wd Bajer. It's really not a clone at all. Although it does look similar to the HPI, it is actually very different. The problem I have is with what I consider EXACT copys. I see a couple manufacturers of vehicles having problems with this, & also see individual hop-up companys dealing with the same issues. When someone as an individual, or as a company spend the money & take the time to design something. It should have a certain amount of protection from being copied EXACTALLY, or within any very close proximity. There is a huge difference in vehicles made in China, & the ones who are actually in my mind stolen ideas. I support Redcat for bringing a completely new arrangement to the table, along with the Hurricane / Titan from Smartech, which is not a copy of anything. Those would be considered China type vehicles, where the KM / FS Vehicles are actually ideas someone else spent the time designing. In my opinion that is the Pros & Cons of Clones vs. China made products in general.

Certain China made vehicles have a spot in the market for the people without funds for a new Higher level product. We can all understand that, as it happens in many other forms of products we all use every day now. In my opinion that is fine, but when it comes to attempting to sell against the original mfg of a copied product, You have to draw a line there. Although this new Redcat has many characteristics of the HPI Baja, It's actually a different car completely. FG is the company who has been cloned to death, I'm thinking this could be literally. Talk about a product that has lost support here in the US, thats the one. If you look at a 10 year old FG MT & a brand new one, Same thing. Look how far HPI has taken this market in 2wd 1/5 scale in less than 5 years. With a completely NEW design !

Hats off to HPI !! [sm=thumbup.gif]

ZX9RBART

I understand what your saying and agree to an extent, however, have you ever used "great value" products from walmart? Sure this is straying from the subject a little but not really. Those products are sold right beside the name brand and usually are even arrogant enough to include the phrase "compare to product X". Just food for thought I guess.

SAVAGEJIM

I agree here too, but at least, fortunately, in the RC industry, I have yet to see any paid advertising like this. (There very well might be such paid RC ads where the clone ad actually does this, but I personally have not seen them.)

WalMart (I have a problem with Wally World too) does do this just like you said, and even grocery stores do this sort of thing. I personally just ignore them.

puff

look..
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8698619/tm.htm

imex is going to use the clone mcd/ fs and they gonna make claim or change name etc..
clone become original..

SAVAGEJIM

Dont jump the gun yet, as Rob has not yet found out the details. It can be the same MCD MT clone with afew upgrades. Or it could be a radically different truck altogether.
Moreover, Rob only said they were subcontracting to a company to make the truck for them; he never said if they will still keep FS as their subcontractor or if they are subcontracting to anyone else.

So, it is still too early to go off and tout this new truck as a complete divorce from the cloned truck.

As I said in the pipe thread you started, try not to bring up contoversial issues especially after what has just been happening in the Giant Scale Forum the past few days. Bringing up anything "Real vs Clone" or anything along that line is unfortunately only rubbing sore wounds.
If anything, you should have mentioned your guess only in the Imex thread link you posted. There is absolutely no need to spam this link in every other thread in the Giant Scale Forum. We already see that thread, since it is at the top and people are already talking about it.

Foxy

What do you mean? A clone can't become original. Name makes no difference. You said this in the other thread too and I don't understand what you are tryhing to say. IMEX and FS are clones, yes. And?

victory-rc

Someone step up and make one in the U.S.A. we'l all be happy.

circa5angles

Made in the USA or just an American company? The problem if its made in the USA, who in there right mind could afford such a thing?
This is the reason almost everything is made in China, so that people can afford them.

Really makes one wonder when "said" product from company "X", and "said" product (which is almost the same) from company "Y"
And then one product is about half the price of the other, both say made in America(or where ever). Whats the give?

looker2756

There is a ton of truth and sadness in that one statment. We have the people & machines to make just such a vehicle, but I agree the price would be high. I can't say that no one would buy it though. I for one would spend more money on a product just like that. As long as it had the same quality levels we would expect from such a vehicle. After hearing about this issue & seeing MANY threads just like this one, seems to me many people slam China for quality & stealing & cloning, but how many of those people would actually pay extra for an American made vehicle. I see constant threads on the price levels of the vehicles on the market now, saying 1000$ R/C car WOW to much & those 4 wheel drives are to much money. An American car would be in the price range of an Elcon or FG Comp car at arund the 3000$ range. Even if someone took the time to be able to produce such a car, Would anyone pay for it ?? Even the complainers about cloned products now ?

I don't think anyones hard work & designs should be copied / cloned, but it does happen as we already know. I feel there is a place in the market for just about everything, but there should be limits. Here in the US we have laws that provide protection from such acts, but some other places have smaller morals & would much rather take the easy way out & copy someone. There are literally millions of variations in automobiles today, it's not that hard to create your own design, so you can be proud of what you have created. We all need to remember it's a wheel driven vehicle, certain components are all going to be very similar, because they have to !

No more for me here, I just don't want to offend anyone on either side. Because to be honest, I find way to much politics about these toy cars on the forums, and for me it's my job & my hobby. No need to mess that up either !

Foxy

Just felt I should make the membership aware... This 'puff' character is in fact engagerc under a different account name, so take his comments from the point of view that he is interested only in promoting and selling clones, and should not be considered objective. I felt a need to make this post, as the member has neglected to make the appropriate declaration in their signature stating their affiliation to a commercial entity, and to delete all those posts would cause thread continuity problems. Thanks, carry on...

EDIT: Puff now has the appropriate information in his signature.

fourwheels0

My Feedback: (7)

i'm not sure if anyone else has seen this but engagerc.com (aka "puff" ) has been listing his vehicles on craigslist.
they are in california and i am in virginia and see his ads locally in my craigslist. i think that is a bad bussiness move on their part.
if they want to list on craigslist they should do it locally (california) and leave it at that.
i think with all the turmoil they have caused lately here on rcu all they are doing is making themselves look bad in the eyes of the consumers.

and yes i do own a clone (not from engage) (my second 5th scale.first was an fgmt) and a freind of mine has a clone and hpi (which we plan on doing a comparison test with).
i beleive there is a market for both as long as they are not misrepresented and are of good quality (unlike alot of the nitro clones).
to me 5th scale is just like 1/8th scale. you start out at the bottom and work your way up to top of the line as money and skill allow you to.
ok enough of my rambling. time to go burn some fuel.

Brandon4164

My Feedback: (1)

hhmmm i found an amazing site all knockoff trucks they got this humvee 1/5 scale its beeeeeasssssssttttt x-roverDOTcOm

madman2k

I have a FS Racing Monster Truck. I love this big beast. Of course I switched out a few things. 29cc engine, tuned pipe, metal gears, new steering servo, and a kill switch. If it were not for the clones I probably would not have gotten into the 1/5 scene, here in Toronto, Ontario, Canada the Baja 5b costs over $1,500 with tax, the 5T costs well over $2,000. My beast cost me $500 shipped, and I probably spent another 600-1000 on the upgrades, but if I would have gotten the Baja 5b I would have had to get a new motor, pipe and whatever else, so make that price around $2,000 to $2,500. I have fun with my son and our other rcs. I also have a Kyosho Stadium Truck which is now my sons truck. To say it is illegal I would think is kind of pushing that envelop, if it is truly illegal then why do these companies try to sue the clone manufacturers? Just a thought, maybe it is because these companies are the parent companies of the ones in the states. Maybe the companies are the ones that are building them and they are allowed to build and sell them? Who knows, I personally have not spoken to any of these companies so I can't say. If there is no competition then the companies do not need to redesign they're cars, they don't need to come out with anything new, and we as the consumer have no choice but to buy whatever they are selling. Competition is good, and I would say it is needed in any industry, because without competition then the companies making the products can charge whatever they want and we will have to pay they're prices. Look at the auto industry, I had a Ford Explorer, it was great when it drove well, I had that thing very well maintained, but it was nothing but a headache, so I sold it and bought a Honda Civic. I have had no problems with this car yet. People say to me "Oh you like imports more than the domestic cars made here", which makes me laugh because my car was made right here in Ontario, so does that still make it an import. (things that make you go hum). Anyway just thought that I would through in my comment. And please people it is just my opinion.

madman2k

A neighbor of mine has a TMaxx and he hates it. It is difficult to start, and hard to keep the tune. That was why he bought the MGT 8.0 then the Baja 5B, then the FG MT. I have seen him take up to five minutes with that starter unit to get it started.

SoupSpoon

While I can understand the appeal of a cheaper knock off of something almost everyone wants (B5) but not all can afford. Iget that part... What Idon't get is people saying "it's bringing cars to the masses that can not afford the real one." Now Iwould believe that statement if all the guys who bought a clone didn't spend any money on hop ups, new parts or upgrades. With the money most spend on upgrades to make it like the real HPIBaja it cost just as much? Why not just get the real thing and have parts readily avalible? Ifind it funny everyone trying to justify a reason to buy these but have really no idea what went into the desgins at HPI, instead they just order someone elses work and copy it. And people saying "Ford invented cars is everyone else a clone???" No, they are not... It's like saying an SC10 is a clone of a Slash because they are similar, have four wheels. The KM is an exact replica of the HPI B5, exact down to the instructions, I'm surprised KMdidn't steal the HPIlogo on top of it.

The KMkit reminds me of those guys who take their VW Karmann Ghia and drop a Porsche body on it and call it a Porsche. If you can't afford the real thing then don't get it and if you do, expect it to drive like a VW Karmann Ghia with a Porsche body.

EngageRC

If you use a PC/window OS. thanks to CLONE.

sparky 25

all right, take your bone stock hpi baja,

run it for a full tank of fuel on soft sand and tell me that it does not need replacement parts after running for
almost an hour on sand,

it will need the same parts replacing that a km baja will need,

such as a new clutch as the sand will have eaten it alive,

the clutchbell holder will have gotten so hot from the sand around the clutch that it will deform and melt the stock spur gear,

alright i had the km engine bearing let go on me which ruined the engine,

but i now know that was from my own inexperience as i was mixing the fuel/oil at 50/1
and it even lasted for 2 gallon at this oil starved mixture,

thats 100ml to 5 litres of fuel where it should have been 200ml to 5litres,

i have not needed hpi parts as replacement for poor quality parts,

only as replacement for when i hit a concrete post flat out which would have broken even an all alloy baja,

i have my km baja sitting with a new cy26cc engine,

hostile hobby rear mx tires, tgn alloy enclosed clutch housing, cy long lasting clutch, turtle racing gearplate, darksoul axle boots,

hd beadlocks, tuned pipe, extra set of rear wheels with sand paddles, outerwears filter and pullstart covers, hd shock brace,

proline desert rat body, failsafe and rx battery guage, full set of windows,

had i bought the hpi baja rtr i would have had to have done these upgrades also to have the baja ready for the sand,

my km baja with all these upgrades is still a couple hundred pounds cheaper that a rtr hpi baja.

Foxy

Sparky I see what you're saying, but I don't see how it adds value to the topic. What we can understand from your post is that sand destroys RC cars, and it doesn't care if they're original or clones. It's like saying a pinto is just as good as a ferrari, cos bird poo melts the paint of a Ferrari just as much as it does a Pinto.

Johnnysplits

Ok, time for me to chime in. I have owned a clone. The hobbypro ford gt...a copy of the fg. After changing only the tires, that car kept up with the fg without a problem. When I crashed it into a barrier and broke one A arm, another driver gave me a spare from his fg. Fit perfectly. Got right back out on the track and continued competing. I eventually sold the car to get into boats otherwise I never had an issue. Now im about to buy a km baja. I agree with most here that more money is made in the aftermarket parts than the initial sale of the vehicle. Now to all who say to either keep saving or find something else if you can't afford the real thing...unless you are going to buy me one from hpi, I will get what I can afford. Maybe there are a lot of wealthy people here, but im not one of them. Does that mean I should just sit on the side and watch everyone else have fun because I can't afford the "real deal" ? When I was 20, I took a '70 malibu and turned it into a chevelle ss. Nobody knew it wasn't original...unless you were really into chevelles or a show judge. I don't know anyone who can leave something "box stock"...whether you break parts constantly or not, most of these cars original parts will be replaced by aftermarket pieces. That is why strictly from a financial standpoint, that I will buy the km. If it were only a couple hundred between the two, I would get the hpi...but not at a $500+ spread. $500 in upgrades will give the km quite an advantage over the hpi right from the start. Sorry about being so long winded here.

borley1863

Hi don`t know if anyones mentioned these ones on ebay lol
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RC-Auto-1-5-Pe...d=p3286.c0.m14
thanks
Guy

victory-rc

Ebay.com has a 5 truck clone for $750. Clear body.2.4 gig cotrols and 29cc.