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  1. #51

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    ORIGINAL: Foxy

    Note I just changed the RRP to 1400 since you replied. Anybody reading this should consider that the RRP is rarely what the cars actually go for, so don't worry. Look at the original TB, retail up to $1300 but going for $900 on the 'bay. If a car has a retail of $1400, you can expect to see it for maybe $1100 on the shelf.

    When do you expect the upgrade parts (body, engine, differential) to hit the market?
    Talking about V2 upgrades?
    If yes, we are planning to present this V2 in Jan.2009.

    For body- around October.
    For engine - before October.
    For diff- before December.
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  2. #52

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    Funny how it's the supplier and retailers that have an issue with my comments...
    I've been in retail management for 15 years. If a supplier came in and told me what my price HAD to be, I would kick them out of the building.
    I understand that there are different circumstances in this industry, but the core of the free market is that you can buy and sell as you please.
    It's absolutely terrible that a supplier would come on here and not only be public about a price fixing policy, but try to justify it. I have no respect for you.
    As far as cost, Redcat is also made in Asia, and obviously has comparable costs (physical and R&D). They're under $1000? Are they just taking less margin? Or, is it a go-to market strategy to destroy the competition? I don't know, but that's the reality of the market that you need to deal with. You should also consider that HPI isn't far behind... They will own the market if you don't get a foothold now.

    Smartech, you can have this thing back if you like, or I can forward it on to someone local that is going to post you a glowing review. PM me with details. What do you think you're going to get by having more pictures and vids on here? You keep asking Foxy for more, and he's bent over for you already. I've given you the critical points that you need to address, but you think that you can get credibility by just being here and giving away a few free RCs. I was one of the first people that BOUGHT a Titan, and started posting positive comments about it...even though local people were laughing that I bought a Smartech. I appreciate that you're trying to get better, but you're going about it the wrong way. Spend the money, and hire a company that can help you with marketing, etc. Foxy's an awesome source of knowledge, but he's not an average consumer. It may have been better if you had let Duratrax manage it until you had the resources to do it properly.

    Angel, you're invested in the situation, so I take your comments with a grain of salt. The third diff is a waste anyways because it's not sealed, or have an adjustable mechanism. I replaced mine with an FG carrier, and that cost about $200. And, I'm not b!tching because I don't have the extra money to spend. This is also not a debate about local shops vs on-line. Regardless of where I bought either truck, the price point should be under $1000. I'm all for local support, but none of them will deal with Smartech because of the terrible reputation with the Traxxas clones.

    ok, I've PO'd enough people for 1 day, but I can't help but be honest. Fire away. Look back on this a year from now, and you'll see that I'm right.

  3. #53
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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    the T-bolt is $870 in the UK from this dealer on ebay 420 GBP http://madabout-rc.co.uk/onefifthscale.aspx

    they want $1300-1400 here in the states

  4. #54
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    Only if bought from ebay, and as Nelson has pointed out, he will do his best to prevent it being sold at that price. I'm within the bounds of my duties to remove Cal-torque's post, but I'm not going to, I think he has some valid points. I don't agree with everything he said, but I can definitely accept that this is the way he sees it.

    And Cal, I appreciate the props, thanks.
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  5. #55
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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    If a dealer is selling it at 420 and hes still making a profit....how much of a profit does it need to make....sell it at 1300 you make 4-500 more[X(] and your sales will dwindle

    Powerslide had the titan at 1300 then he lowered it to 850...to move inventory that was just sitting....you charge to much it will sit[]

    there are too many choices for 4x4 vehicles to overcharge and set a high selling price... IMO

  6. #56
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    ORIGINAL: Cal-Torque

    ORIGINAL: Smartech Racing

    The Price of original Thunderbolt should not be less than $1150 this moment, the 900$ retail is not accept by our company, we will check out the retailer who sell thunderbolt on ebay ($900) then stop offer our product to them or who sells to them.
    Wow...that's brutal.
    I HATE company's that try to control pricing. It's none of your business.
    I know that Foxy is highly respected here, but I very much disagree on the pricing advice.
    Unless you are going to be a very high end RC (pro version, etc), the market should be around $1000. Largescalers have just gotten used to paying too much. If I can buy an LST2 with a great radio system for $600, there's no reason that a super size version should be twice the price. The physical difference in cost should be minimal.
    Consider the new Redcats... I just received mine yesterday. It's a better unit, and under $1000.

    Otherwise, the suggestions are spot on. You also need a huge improvement in customer support.
    Also, Cal, note that I pointed out that a retail of 1400 means it would actually sell off the shelves for less. If Nelson wants to try to control that, he's welcome to try in the bounds of what he can reasonably and legally accomplish. Nothing ever sells for SRP, and I was bearing that in mind, when I wrote those prices. I would pay $1000 on the nose for a Thunderbolt in it's original RTR form, and would not feel ripeed off, that's the truth (I might even stretch to 1100, I think it's a good product). I would raise that a couple hundred more for the better body, the centre diff, a better steering servo and a good engine.

    As for the Redcat, I don't have one on my hands, but I bet it's swings and roundabouts, some better features on the TB, some others on the redcat. One thing is for sure, and I agree with you, that Smartech needs marketing assistance.
    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
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  7. #57

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    You deserve the props Foxy. The detail in your review was fantastic, and you know your stuff.

    I didn't mean to offend anyone. The comments about controlling price just really ticks off. Maybe, it's a cultural thing that that is acceptable elsewhere. I realize that others have MAP, etc, but it's not something that they would discuss in a public forum.

    And, really, the Titan/TBolt is not an original design. Take any 1/8 pan chassis design, modify it for gas, and voila! The Smartech versions look especially like Hobao/Ofna. The diff cases even have sway bar mounts... Forward thinking, or direct copy?

    Foxy, I encourage you to pick up a Redcat. It's not night and day better, but it's really good value for the price. If Redcat is investing in price to get their brand entrenched as a great largescale option before the big names enter the market, then it's probably not a bad strategy.

  8. #58

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...


    ORIGINAL: hellya

    the T-bolt is $870 in the UK from this dealer on ebay 420 GBP http://madabout-rc.co.uk/onefifthscale.aspx

    they want $1300-1400 here in the states
    We already check, madabout-rc is not one of our customer, as mentioned before, our first shipment will be arrived in German. How come Madabout R/C they can have our product and it is strange they can sell TB $870 in ehe UK.

    Our selling price of Titan is 799-899euro in Europe now.
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  9. #59

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    ORIGINAL: hellya

    If a dealer is selling it at 420 and hes still making a profit....how much of a profit does it need to make....sell it at 1300 you make 4-500 more[X(] and your sales will dwindle

    Powerslide had the titan at 1300 then he lowered it to 850...to move inventory that was just sitting....you charge to much it will sit[]

    there are too many choices for 4x4 vehicles to overcharge and set a high selling price... IMO
    We are considering change the retail price point but we hope our dealers can negotiate with us before they drop the price, it is unfair if some change the price suddenly with big difference without notice. The truth is we received lots of complaint from our customers about the the retail price point. for exsample, titan $1300 as noramall price, people sell it $1100 they still have profit. But we found one company they sell the price $500, even under our offering price. we try to contact that company to buy A $ 500 titan, they say out of stock. And of course this company is not one of our customer.

    We try to control retail priice because of there are a lot of internet sales with very strange price and never have our product in stock. in other case one of Our agent always complain there are some company sell through internet wiht a very low price in their country, after we checked, these companies are not our customers and we do not know where they get our products, the answer is usually the same " sorry, we have no stock".
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  10. #60

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    ORIGINAL: Smartechracing

    ORIGINAL: hellya

    If a dealer is selling it at 420 and hes still making a profit....how much of a profit does it need to make....sell it at 1300 you make 4-500 more[X(] and your sales will dwindle

    Powerslide had the titan at 1300 then he lowered it to 850...to move inventory that was just sitting....you charge to much it will sit[]

    there are too many choices for 4x4 vehicles to overcharge and set a high selling price... IMO
    We are considering change the retail price point but we hope our dealers can negotiate with us before they drop the price, it is unfair if some change the price suddenly with big difference without notice. The truth is we received lots of complaint from our customers about the the retail price point. for exsample, titan $1300 as noramall price, people sell it $1100 they still have profit. But we found one company they sell the price $500, even under our offering price. we try to contact that company to buy A $ 500 titan, they say out of stock. And of course this company is not one of our customer.

    We try to control retail priice because of there are a lot of internet sales with very strange price and never have our product in stock. in other case one of Our agent always complain there are some company sell through internet wiht a very low price in their country, after we checked, these companies are not our customers and we do not know where they get our products, the answer is usually the same " sorry, we have no stock".



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  11. #61

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    ORIGINAL: Cal-Torque


    As far as cost, Redcat is also made in Asia, and obviously has comparable costs (physical and R&D). They're under $1000? Are they just taking less margin? Or, is it a go-to market strategy to destroy the competition? I don't know, but that's the reality of the market that you need to deal with. You should also consider that HPI isn't far behind... They will own the market if you don't get a foothold now.


    "Made in Asia and obviously has comparable costs(physical and R&D)". Can you show me how to compare the cost with two different designed and feature product?

    It is not a story only about the labor cost. For exsample, Sony computer they also made their computers in China, their oem vendor sell the same function of product maybe change the computer case or brand name only but they are selling with a huge price difference. In this case, you can say "also made in Asia, and obviously has comparable costs (physical and R&D). ". But the truth is the they are still selling in different price.

    Labour cost is just a part of costs, if you have the experience of manufacturering then you will know the difference. If you do not have the knowledge, please do not comment.


    "They're under $1000? Are they just taking less margin? Or, is it a go-to market strategy to destroy the competition? I don't know,".
    I don't know why you are asking above questions? We are Smartech, not Redcat, if you want to know the the answers, why don't you go to ask Redcat directly?
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  12. #62

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    Smartech, you're really grasping at nothing now...comparing branded and OEM? What does that have to do with anything?
    No offense, but you should consider hiring someone to manage your North American marketing strategy. You're not doing yourself any favors.

  13. #63

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...


    ORIGINAL: Cal-Torque

    the price point should be under $1000. I'm all for local support, but none of them will deal with Smartech because of the terrible reputation with the Traxxas clones.

    Can you tell me what is" the terrible reputation with the Traxxas clones."?

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  14. #64

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...


    ORIGINAL: Cal-Torque


    And, really, the Titan/TBolt is not an original design. Take any 1/8 pan chassis design, modify it for gas, and voila! The Smartech versions look especially like Hobao/Ofna. The diff cases even have sway bar mounts... Forward thinking, or direct copy?

    Direct copy?
    We just make a 1/5 4WD that can have 1/8 racing features and functions and easy to handling, is that called " direct copy?"
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  15. #65

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    ORIGINAL: Cal-Torque

    Smartech, you're really grasping at nothing now...comparing branded and OEM? What does that have to do with anything?
    No offense, but you should consider hiring someone to manage your North American marketing strategy. You're not doing yourself any favors.
    "Smartech, you're really grasping at nothing now...comparing branded and OEM? What does that have to do with anything?"
    We just answer the" made in Asia and the obviously comparale costs".

    We will consider to adjust our marketing stratege for American market.
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  16. #66

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...


    ORIGINAL: Smartechracing
    Can you tell me what is" the terrible reputation with the Traxxas clones."?
    You're serious?
    Honestly, no offense, but your TMaxx clone was junk.
    And, you were selling them direct to anyone with a business license. I even saw them locally at flea markets and garage sales.
    So, no parts support, and people were taking them to local hobby stores that couldn't help them with it.
    That's why one of my first comments to you was to re-enter the market under a different brand name. Nutech sucks as well.

    I'm on your side, but you need to listen, and stop being defensive. And, these levels of discussion shouldn't really be public.

  17. #67

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    Cal you have valid points and it does no good to go back and fourth. But I must say you hit the nail on the head! with Smartech discussing any of these matters on a public forum. This a big NO! NO! I have tried to discuss many of these issue with smartech myself and with no success. The main goal for smartech is hire consultants on this matter for improvements and marketing issues.

    Now we all have our backrounds and stories of years of experience with R/C. Yes Foxy is a very knowledgeable person, So yes his input would be a plus. But this is something that is not done in public.
    Liquid Ice Energy drink, VS Modelsport, Team Phat Dad, Vertigo Racing, Fast Eddy,

  18. #68

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...


    ORIGINAL: Smartechracing
    I don't know why you are asking above questions? We are Smartech, not Redcat, if you want to know the the answers, why don't you go to ask Redcat directly?
    I wasn't expecting you to specifically answer.
    I'm giving you a consumers perspective on things that they would consider when making a purchase decision.

    Again, it's a good RC, but I would suggest:
    - set price point at $1000 or less
    - include a good radio system (JR XS3 as a minimum), or ship ARTR
    - include the minor fixes at no charge
    - go with your race 23, or a comparable CY
    - sealed diffs!
    - decent sealed bearings
    - better air filter
    - source a pipe at a reasonable cost that could be a $100 option with RC purchase
    - Baja-compatible hex drives, and knurled wheel nuts
    - establish partnerships for aftermarket support

  19. #69

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...


    ORIGINAL: Cal-Torque


    ORIGINAL: Smartechracing
    Can you tell me what is" the terrible reputation with the Traxxas clones."?
    You're serious?
    Honestly, no offense, but your TMaxx clone was junk.
    And, you were selling them direct to anyone with a business license. I even saw them locally at flea markets and garage sales.
    So, no parts support, and people were taking them to local hobby stores that couldn't help them with it.
    That's why one of my first comments to you was to re-enter the market under a different brand name. Nutech sucks as well.

    I'm on your side, but you need to listen, and stop being defensive. And, these levels of discussion shouldn't really be public.
    After we check our customer list, we don't have customer in canada who buying our nitro products, maybe they are buying from trading or overseas. can you check for us, if they need parts or other service, please do not hestitate to inform us.
    "Nutech sucks as well"?[X(]
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  20. #70

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    ORIGINAL: AngelShark

    Cal you have valid points and it does no good to go back and fourth. But I must say you hit the nail on the head! with Smartech discussing any of these matters on a public forum. This a big NO! NO! I have tried to discuss many of these issue with smartech myself and with no success. The main goal for smartech is hire consultants on this matter for improvements and marketing issues.

    Now we all have our backrounds and stories of years of experience with R/C. Yes Foxy is a very knowledgeable person, So yes his input would be a plus. But this is something that is not done in public.
    AngelShark,
    Who you discussed before, Smartech directly or through JHC? I sugesst you if you have any problem of commuication with JHC, you can contact us directly. If you have problem wirh our salesman who handles your account we can arrange another salesman to follow your case.

    Thanks
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  21. #71

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    Lets go back to the topic.

    Foxy, great job for video2, when will can see video3? The cameraman did a execellent job[sm=thumbs_up.gif].
    One video for one free upgrade partjust kidding, thanks for your permission for use your videos.

    Your videos are always good. In fact, we already decided to arrange you free body once the tooling is ready.

    Thanks
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  22. #72
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    Thank you Nelson, that will be appreciated. I will try to get out today and get some bigger jumps.
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  23. #73
    Community Moderators Foxy's Avatar
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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    So, after looking through my spares, I discover I don't have a spare receiver for the Thunderbolt (remember the rx wire got cut during the jumping, probably by that hard roof landing in the vid). There won't be any more vids of it until I can get another spektrum receiver. Fingers crossed for next weekend.
    Down with the crew known to pump up the bass...
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  24. #74
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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    foxy maybe i can this week days after work i really want to run my baja .

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    RE: Smartech Thunderbolt Video 2 with some jumps...

    I want to see the baja video, too.[sm=wink_smile.gif]
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