madman2k

Hello everyone, I have a quick question for anyone about tuned pipes.

Which one is better
FS racing performance pipe
or
Jet-Pro Silenced MCD Pipe

If one is better then what makes it better. Just trying to get the facts because both look identical and I want to get one of the by the middle of next month.

Thanks

la.rc.doc

My Feedback: (197)

Well everyone says that , no one knows their product better than the maker, but in my opinion, the Jet-pro pipes are better! I own one and I can tell a difference.

madman2k

But at half the price for the identical looking pipes, I don't know if it is worth spending the extra money, unless there is a real difference.

SilverSteel

If you don't mind to use some tools then go for the FS, but as you can see in the picture if they are not able to fit the manifold to the engine, what else could be wrong with the pipe? Try poor quality of the material, poor weldseams or fitting accuracy!

I personally don't like JetPro at all, but here it seems the better choice.

Pro5thScaleDistributors

Yup hands down, don't support the fake, cheap copy, it will not perform the same, it will not last as long and it sounds a bit different.
I have fooled with the cheap version, it is total garbage, it isn't worth half what it cost.
Go with the Jetpro hands down!

EngageRC

Regardless of what brand of pipe you put on the engine. You will get about, ~10-15% performance gain of the engine.
so, you can pay $ for 10% or you can pay $+ for 10%+ HP.
if i run a 23cc, then I would use the $ up the CC instead to 26 or higher instead.
If cc is already max. then pipe would be good.

SAVAGEJIM

To have an idea of how the JetPro will incease power output, check out this site:
http://www.lunatikengineering.com/data.html

EngageRC

only if one can change law of physic.
it is only shifting HP vs toruqe curve within the zone of + / - few %.

there is no way a pipe can up the performance of any engine by large% (~15% is what i think high performance, all i see now is 5-10% on the market)

SAVAGEJIM

Yes, but not in all cases. Look at the Dominator pipes, those are significantly much more than only 15%.

Speaking of physics, these pipes are more than just a means of silencing and maximum fluid flow. There is more to them as to why one pipe will only give 15% increase and another can give as much as 20% or even more.

And no, a well chosen pipe will not merely shift the torque and resulting HP curves, they actually ADD more area under the curves. If you integrate the area of the torque&HP curves of an engine with a well chosen pipe versus the very same engine with a poorly chosen pipe, you will see that the area under the curve of the good pipe on the engine will be more.
It is not just merely shifted.

When you are talking about the torque and restltung HP curves being shifted by pipe selection, you are referring to another general case. That is an engine with a lower timing profile with larger stroke having a low RPM torque pipe matched to it.
Likewise, in a general case, a higher timing profile engine that likes to rev higher would benefit from a high end pipe matched to it.
(Again, these are general cases as there are some exceptions, but those exceptions are not 100% of an occurrance, otherwise, they would not be exceptions at all).
Now, let me try to address the exception. Lets say you have an engine that likes to perform at ow RPMs. Yes, you can shift some of the torque curve to it's higher RPM ranges, and yes, you will sacrifice the torque at the low end as a result, but the real question comes when you integrate the areas under the HP and torque curves. Did you really get MORE total HP and torque? That is the question you will have to consider when you take it to the dyno.

Pro5thScaleDistributors

I would only agree on that if we were talking about your garbage rip off pipe, you know the one those little Chinese copycat thieves stole the design from Jetpro....

This is obviously a subject you have not looked into, could be because the Chinese your buying from, aren't smart enough to come up with there own designs.

EngageRC

the Chinese are smart and not to re-spin the wheel...they make it cheaper and better.
if they can do it for a few bucks.. why not the others?

gardnesd

how much louder is the jetpro w/ silenceer than the stock pipe????????????????

EngageRC

they need to measure it with the sound meter...
in dB.

Lars from Norway

Beacause "the others" maybe put more soul,quality,better welds and so on into it?You cant make a pipe that looks like the original,it has to be the original to have the same performance.

wan6176

hpi tune pipe still the best its small compact n loud....

EngageRC

that is why the price is the compansating factor. you can buy a bmw or you can buy a bicycle..

SilverSteel

So, please tell me why it is better to have a round manifold entry instead of a entry that is shaped like the engines outlet?

EngageRC

it change the response rpm.
So, if you want max torque at different range, select different shape.


Here are some formulas from Gordon Jennings' "2-stroke Tuners Handbook" (1973)



image 1.

When using the formulas above for designing or calculating what parameters the pipe to buy should have, the first step is to calculate D1. When you calculate D1 with the D1 formula above, remember that the number is in sq-in and must be converted to the diameter of the header pipe. Do this by dividing your calculation by Pi and then taking the square root. This will give you the radius of the header. Just multiply it by 2 to get the diameter. What you are doing is working the formula for the area of a circle backwards (Area of a circle = Pi r^2). From this point on, no other conversion should be necessary unless you use metric (Multiply numerator of LT formula by 83.3 and use 518.16 m/s for VS to get mm instead of inches) instead of English.

To compare, here's another set of formulas from Martin Hepperle (1997):



If you use both formulas, you'll see a slight difference, this may be due to new research between the dates of publishing (1973 Vs. 1997).


image 2.

Apache-

IMO there is just one good exhaust, Mielke. Silent and powerband that is wide.
Most pipes have an abrubt delivery of torque plus a sudden end which stops the engine rev further.
Making a smooth and above all usefull powercurve and the engine to rev far up is something different.

I do not want to say the other pipes are crap, but on tracks they are never used which makes you think why not.
Sound or so you wish noise, does not mean it truly performs and delivers speed and torque.
All that produces noise will give you the feeling you go faster, in most cases it is not.

Samba is also often used in the racing scene and deffinately good, but personally I prefer the Mielke above that for its higher top-end and smoother powerband.

SAVAGEJIM

The question posed to you is why a round hole that goes into the pipe is superior to an rectangular, or better yet, oval hole. Even an enlonged pentogon shape hole for that matter.

All this arithmetic you just mentioned are for calculating crossectional flow area, and the raw number of crossectional flow area does not address why a circle hole would be superior or inferior to a different shaped hole. (BTY, by convention of expressing dimentional units, it is not sq-in, it is in^2, or even in sq would be better understood.)

You have to also consider the shape of the exhaust port on the outside of the engine block. Ever wnder why all the pipe makers (save for this one you posted) go with a shape that matches the shape of the exhaust port where the pipe manifold bolts onto? (Particularly the shape of the ports seen on Zenoah and CY engines.) Now, if the FS engins use a round hole for their engines, then the round port of the FS pipes also make sense: they would be a perfect match. But putting a round hole and matching that to a rectangular Zen/CY port, not as good.

FYI: for the major functions of these pipes, the shape of the header holes has absolutely no bearing on what RPM bandwidths these pipes begin to work.

SilverSteel

Thank you SavageJim, that is exactly what i wanted to know. The shape of the hole why is it round? as far as i know even the FS engines have a rectangular exhaust port.

When you imagine that this is only a pipe which they can't copy correctly how is the quality of the cloned cars? Yes they make them cheaper but definitely not better, there is a reason why the originals have their price tag.


@Apache
Try a Samba pipe, I would say they are slightly better than Mielke pipes, I had Mielke for my own but if you try a Samba pipe you will stay with it.

wan6176

and what material to make a pipe do play part too not only size n shape
making pipe out of copper sound different
making pipe out of stainless steel sound different
so does aluminium n titanium.

madman2k

Just asking anyone that has an FS racing MT, will the Jet-Pro Silenced MCD Pipe fit the FS Racing Monster Truck. I want to get a good pipe soon, but none of the Jet pro pipe state that they are for the FS racing MT, so I am not sure if they will fit properly. Anyone use one already? Or are there any other pipes out there that will fit my FS racing monster truck?

Apache-

Deffinately not.
We tried many pipes and Mielke is prefered among racers. The powerband is much smoother and better possible to use then Samba offers.
Where samba top end quits there is still way more to come at the mielke exhaust.
The torque in low that Samba offers better is in 9 out of 10 cases causing uncontrolled handeling and unwanted spinning wheels.
Not to speak of a dominator which has no top end at all and only a brutal torque jump in low rpm range. fully unusuable pipe in racing. jetpro is even worse.
Sorry guys but that is IMO the way it is.

SilverSteel

OK I can only speak up from what I tested on my own for my MCD Baja1000, therefore the Mielke doesn't give me the torque I wanted on the racing track. I personally like a bit more torque than having a high rev pipe, simply because a 4WD needs more power from the lower rpm's to get out of corners. On 3 out of 4 tracks you never need the highest rpm of your engine, when you come to the peak rpm's you already have to brake for the next corner
I like my Mielke too but for racing I prefer the Samba.

@madman2k
The JetPro's are all designed to give you high rpm's, to use it on a Monstertruck I think it is absolutly nonsense, you need torque to get the Monster moving, especially when you have a 4x4 MT
Since FS is a copy of MCD the JetPro for the MCD Monster (not EVO) pipe would fit.