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New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

Old 10-09-2010, 06:27 PM
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SeamusG
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Default New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

Never mind ...
Old 10-10-2010, 05:31 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

Hey SeamusG,
What do you need ?
Old 10-10-2010, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

Hey OzMO,

I spent some quality time this morning reading all posts included in the last 20 some pages of threads in this forum. I found the New Glider Pilot's Handbook by Ed Anderson (aeajr?). Thus the "never mind".

I'm thinking that Ed's handbook thread should be a sticky in this forum along with his "Learning to use a high-start" thread. Would'a saved a bunch of time.

I'm seriously considering building an EP-glider (kit form - no ARFs in this house ). A friend and my building mentor owns a LHS. He's built several EP-gliders and has offered to help in modifying non-EP ready kits to accept the EP stuff. He has a sweet DynaFlite Bird of Time with EP mods. He's a very good builder. My initial flying will be powered take off to altitude then play with the eagles 'n hawks at our field (starting at 5900 feet). Who knows, the Denver area probably has some pretty decent slopes (I'm just guessing - a bit of understatement if you catch my cynical drift ...). Maybe a "warmliner" might be something that would work too. Don't know yet. I have a couple of glow planes that need covered / repaired.

I have no desire for competition on the horizon though we have some club-sponsored vintage events. They aren't purists until the guy with "non-period" modifications wins then they scream bloody murder. Later, they offer him good money for his non-compliant equipment. Emmmmm, if winning isn't everything ...
Old 10-10-2010, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

As a result on my snooping around today I used the old cut-n-paste routine to compile a 28 page primer with definitions, links and how-to's. What was I trying to do again? I forgot ...
Old 10-10-2010, 07:21 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

SeamusG Would you be willing to put a link to your primer? I would like to read up on your findings.
Old 10-11-2010, 04:27 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

Seamus, are these bits and pieces from other websites? If so and to ensure we give the site owners their due credit we should really have the links to the original web sites to included in with your cut and paste bits. Otherwise it can often be too easy to take some of the material out of context.

I also would not turn your back too completely on competition. By all means take it with a grain of salt but you can get a lot of good out of competing against a stop watch once you've got the basics under your belt. The key is to focus on your own abilities and how they sharpen up under pressure instead of worrying about what anyone else is doing. There can be a lot of personal satisfaction in making the task time and getting a good controlled landing when you have to really scratch to do it.
Old 10-11-2010, 04:35 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

BMatthews - You're signature says it all.

I will have to revisit my steps to make sure that I haven't lost the appropriate links. People 'n sites should get full credit, not the poster.
Old 10-11-2010, 05:18 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?


ORIGINAL: SeamusG

Hey OzMO,

I spent some quality time this morning reading all posts included in the last 20 some pages of threads in this forum. I found the New Glider Pilot's Handbook by Ed Anderson (aeajr?). Thus the "never mind".

I'm thinking that Ed's handbook thread should be a sticky in this forum along with his "Learning to use a high-start" thread. Would'a saved a bunch of time.

I'm seriously considering building an EP-glider (kit form - no ARFs in this house ). A friend and my building mentor owns a LHS. He's built several EP-gliders and has offered to help in modifying non-EP ready kits to accept the EP stuff. He has a sweet DynaFlite Bird of Time with EP mods. He's a very good builder. My initial flying will be powered take off to altitude then play with the eagles 'n hawks at our field (starting at 5900 feet). Who knows, the Denver area probably has some pretty decent slopes (I'm just guessing - a bit of understatement if you catch my cynical drift ...). Maybe a "warmliner" might be something that would work too. Don't know yet. I have a couple of glow planes that need covered / repaired.

I have no desire for competition on the horizon though we have some club-sponsored vintage events. They aren't purists until the guy with "non-period" modifications wins then they scream bloody murder. Later, they offer him good money for his non-compliant equipment. Emmmmm, if winning isn't everything ...
Glad you found the New Glider Pilot's Handbook helpful.

Anything that you feel is missing?

Don't forget the Eastern Soaring League's Novice Lounge:
http://forums.flyesl.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=14


Old 10-11-2010, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

Hey SeamusG,
Hard to add much to Ed's stuff, he is good. Any how good luck with the glider build. Almost all the woodies can be modified to electric. For slope foam is nice do to the rocks etc.
I have an eye on some smallish slopers do the the smallish slopes in the midwest.
Blue Fan Fold Foam or depapered Handi-board for material so I can remake it as needed.
There are just to many free plans around for foamies to be any more specific. (That means I haven't picked one yet) It would be easy to tag a small motor onto any of them as well.
Old 10-11-2010, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

I'm working up a reply to Ed's "anything missing" question. Luv a challenge.

Can you do a good hi-start with trashed rotator cuffs? I used to be able to whack the kids in the back of the head with a snow ball at 15 yards. I'm lucky to get it 10' and that's with excruciating pain. How about hand starts?


Old 10-11-2010, 07:01 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

how much can you pull?

A Fling weighs about 7 ounces so you only need about 1.5 - 2poundsof pull to launch it.

An Easy glider is about 24 ounces and a Vista is about 30 ounces , so you only needabout 6-8 pounds of pull to get a good launch.

There are pedal launchers so that you can hook up to the hi-start/planethen let the launcher hold the tension till you step on the pedal.

All depends on how big and heavy your plane is and how much tension you can handle. But if 8 pounds is too much, then it is time to go electric.
Old 10-11-2010, 07:35 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

I Know you said no ARFs but I wouldn't limit yourself so much. I only have ever had 2 ARFs in as many decades but Really like them both. I got the chance to fly a couple of the Radians and they fly just to nice to blow off. And you don't have to chase a high start with them.
My most recent ARF #2 is a Reichard Mefisto 2 meter FG fuse with wood over foam wings.
It has required enough BUILDING that it must an AARF almost almost ready to fly But it looks nice and I got it on fleaba^ at a good price.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:05 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?


ORIGINAL: aeajr

how much can you pull?

A Fling weighs about 7 ounces so you only need about 1.5 - 2poundsof pull to launch it.

An Easy glider is about 24 ounces and a Vista is about 30 ounces , so you only needabout 6-8 pounds of pull to get a good launch.

There are pedal launchers so that you can hook up to the hi-start/planethen let the launcher hold the tension till you step on the pedal.

All depends on how big and heavy your plane is and how much tension you can handle. But if 8 pounds is too much, then it is time to go electric.
Now that Ihave a fairly good understanding of a hi-start (and it's apparatus) I think that I can do a full boggy hi-start <with my left hand>.

I did my best imitation of Evelyn Woods Speed Reading Graduate on your New Glider Pilot's Handbook. Ya need to add the kitchen sink!

There is a link to a thread on "terminology"that is pretty weak. The sailplane / glider arm of the RChobby has some pretty specialized / unique / non-intuitive terms. It's the basics that are the initial "trip lines". I'm putting my own "dictionary" together - Ilearn more that way - at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Oh, did Isay it or just think it - your work is FANTASTIC!!!!!! Thanks so much. Can we have a sticky that references your Handbook? Do we need to bribe Marc (RCAdmin)?

TTFN


Old 10-11-2010, 09:13 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?


ORIGINAL: OzMo

I Know you said no ARFs but I wouldn't limit yourself so much. I only have ever had 2 ARFs in as many decades but Really like them both. I got the chance to fly a couple of the Radians and they fly just to nice to blow off. And you don't have to chase a high start with them.
My most recent ARF #2 is a Reichard Mefisto 2 meter FG fuse with wood over foam wings.
It has required enough BUILDING that it must an AARF almost almost ready to fly But it looks nice and I got it on fleaba^ at a good price.
ARFreferences are just fine. I didn't know what I didn't know until I read aeajr's Handbook. I'm not sure that I want to offer up a kit to this type of flying just yet. I'm pretty anal (no, VERYanal) in my builds.

Just thinking where I can put a hi-start apparatus at my field. We have 3 fields - west is an electric field (predominantly), center is CL and east is 800x60 concrete. The surrounding area is a prairie dog preserve that has many rocks 'n nasty weeds that poke holes in mylar like a hot knife through butter. Grass doesn't exist.

Em, trimming flights - we have plenty of parks & school athletic fields in nice lush grass nearby ... Any experience with using these types of areas for trimming flights?


Old 10-11-2010, 09:18 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

Just looked at Reichard's website http://www.reichard.cz/en/models/ . Nice selection. Any distributor in the US of A?


Old 10-12-2010, 01:12 AM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

Do yourself a favor and come up by the "M" on lookout mountain above Golden on any day we are having a SE, E, NE, or north wind and see what sloping is all about. Also, check the "Colorado Front Range Slopers" thread over on RCGroups.
Old 10-12-2010, 09:42 AM
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Will do A10.
Old 10-12-2010, 02:33 PM
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ORIGINAL: SeamusG

I'm working up a reply to Ed's ''anything missing'' question. Luv a challenge.

Can you do a good hi-start with trashed rotator cuffs? I used to be able to whack the kids in the back of the head with a snow ball at 15 yards. I'm lucky to get it 10' and that's with excruciating pain. How about hand starts?



With a condition like this just release the model with as much as you can manage without pain. But lower the angle of the nose to much closer to horizontal so the initial pull is used to accelerate the model to flying speed. Up to around 10'ish degrees nose up will give a good safe launch even with heavier models. With the build up in speed the nose will rotate up naturally. If the hook is nicely back to the best position bigger and heavier models will want to over rotate and possibly snap off the line. On those be ready with a little bit of forward stick pressure to kill that tendency. Smaller and lighter models won't show that sort of behaviour as much but it pays to be ready.

You still want to start with the model back over your shoulder with your body sideways to the launch path. Get the model back over your shoulder with your body sideways just like an Olympic javelin thrower so the line passes in front of your chest. From that point throw as well as you can with comfort but mostly just guide the model for the first 3 or 4 feet of motion up to the release point so that the model leaves your hand with some decent forward and slightly upward speed and the nose pointed up about 10'ish degrees. THis method will let the line pull do the work but you're ensuring that the wings have some air flowing over them which is good for long term survival. The last thing you want to do is hold it with the wings in front of your face and just let go. I've seen far too many models busted by trusting that this will work.

You'll loose some of the final altitude with this method since you won't get the nice vertical climb right from release where the pull is the most. But other than the little ones such as the Fling it sure sounds like you won't be able to give them the healthy upwards javelin like throw that is needed with the bigger and heavier ones to avoid a stall and snap roll into the ground. And if you can't give the model that energy then it has to come from somewhere. In your case that somewhere will be the high start rubber or the winch motor. You'll just need to learn to find thermals better than the others to make up for the difference....
Old 10-12-2010, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

This is in part why I'm looking at an EP-Glider with a hook. It's also the reason that I turn down my friend's offer to ride his Desmosedici!

Old 10-12-2010, 08:19 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

Just be sure to turn on the prop AFTER the line falls away.....

Even larger EP models require a healthy push. If you develop a taste for the larger and heavier models you may need to arrange a short rubber only or rubber with short line sort of bungee launch that shoots it up to flying speed and falls away before you turn on the motor. Otherwise to launch a 3 lb 2 meter or bigger and heavier needs a lot more than a snowball's sort of push to ensure it is at or darn close to flying speed as it leaves your hand. The good thing is that it would provide something to push against so it may not be as painful as basically throwing a "nothing".

Or you make it a point to only fly on windy enough days that you can throw the model into the wind so you only need to push it lightly to have enough air speed.
Old 10-13-2010, 08:19 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?


ORIGINAL: A10FLYR

Do yourself a favor and come up by the "M" on lookout mountain above Golden on any day we are having a SE, E, NE, or north wind and see what sloping is all about. Also, check the "Colorado Front Range Slopers" thread over on RCGroups.
A10 - did myself a favor this afternoon but nobody was home. Glad Ihad my Miata with race tires - that road is awsome (I was very considerate to the 2 wheel community and the tourists). Definitely a million $ view. There was a sole paraglider cruising back-n-forth for nearly an hour - walking pace - coulda had a nice conversation with him/her. Ican see how soaring can be kinda intoxicating.

Where do you go (internet)to find current weather conditions before you go for a visit?

Also, I'm guessing that if one's flying skills are a bit suspect you may never reach your plane. Looks like ya need a technical climbling background to get to some of the nooks &crannies around that road. You can see but can't touch. Not quite like loosing a plane in a tree .
.
Emm, I can see where wind can really be your friend ...

Ihave an aging Volvo station wagon that has plenty of room for a sailplane (or 2 or 3) ...



Old 10-13-2010, 09:00 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

PM'd
Old 10-17-2010, 08:46 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

I guess the result of asking the question and reading aeajr's excellent primer is that I am know "familiar" enough with gliders that I can have a reasonable conversation with glider pilots. You won't find many gliders flown at my club but I've found that most guys that you meet at the field (if not all) have at least one glider back at the house. Things that I learned today:
    [*]I now know that dynamic glider pilots need to be put in straight jackets![*]I now know that Mt. Zion is just down the road from my club's field and NOT in Zion National Park, UT.[*]I understand why foam-n-glass makes very good sense for a slope glider - don't take a balsa / film covered plane to Mt. Zion.[*]I'm not sure that I'm fit enough to fly combat 'cause I'd go for plenty of walks to pick up my plane. Em, maybe that IS a fitness plan.[*]For soaring, wind direction DOES count.[*]Hi-starts don't work at our field 'cause we have these big-n-ugly weeds that will snag the cord every time (or the prairie dog mounds).[/list]A plan seems to be emerging - an EP glider for the field, a glider capable of slopes, and maybe a "wing" for those times when ya just have to knock something out of the sky (probably myself). Under NO circumstances a dynamic flight glider.


Old 10-17-2010, 10:36 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

Where were you this weekend? We were up there both days.

AND one plane can do all three modes you are thinking about....a Bee with a motor bolted on!!

Yes you CAN take a crunchie up on Zion!! We do it all the time and they survive quite well actually....just learn where and how to land up there..

And I'm reasonably sure you are fit enough to fly combat even tho I don't think I've seen you and yes, it IS a fitness plan...works for me!

Come up and have some fun....
Old 10-17-2010, 11:07 PM
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Default RE: New to Gliders - Where do I look for info?

I was at our "powered" field both days. Just tossed a YS FZ110 on my 4STar60 "mule". Needed to get familiar with the engine (test table) and a bunch of flights (I just had to laugh at that thing - not "yur" basic low wing trainer any more). Met Jim Jonas (I think that's his last name). He was flying his pattern stuff. One question led to another. Next weekend ...

Crunchie - You have the BoT with 157"wing span don'th 'cha?


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