aeajr

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looking for reports from glider pilots who are actually flying this radio for full house sailplanes.. I am not looking for recommendations for other radios.

aeajr

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I have been getting very active responses on other forums. Seems this 9X is an open source type system that allows thrid parties to enhance/update the firmware.  By adding a $40 board you can do your own firmware updates based on one of the firmware sets posted on the internet. 

Reports have been coming back saying that the quality control on some of the wire soldering is not always the best but that the boards are well made.   So you have to open it up and take a look at the soldering jobs and maybe touch up one or two.

But those who are flying it say it has worked well, once they get the ER9X V2 code on it.  So, for $100 investment, including an 8 channel receiver you have a pretty capable radio, perhaps in the class of a Futaba 9C in features.  But the set-up method is completely different.  

Reports are that the included FlySky module is OK for parkies and such but the pilots flying big stuff switch to the FrSky system, about another $40 including an 8 channel receiver.  This system seems to be rock solid for both gliders and giant scale.

Just thought I would share what I have been finding on other forums.   This is not something you hand a newbie, but if you like to mess around with boards and flasking SW and such, it might be a fun experiment for not a lot of dollars.

If you want to read more, these threads may be of interest:

http://www.rcdiscuss.com/showthread....rnigy-9X-radio
http://www.rcdiscuss.com/showthread....ions-and-links

aeajr

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1- order 9x from leader hobby,(no wire from module to ant.) – Approx. 65.00 + Shipping including FlySky module and 8 ch receiver. They FlySky system seems fine for smaller planes/parkflyers. Receivers are around $10.

2- Buy and install smartyparts board, 45.00 – allows firmware updates and backlight of display

Trans. battery of your choice 10.00 to 20.00 dollars

Around $150 total with shipping.

For larger planes, or more expensive planes and gliders - Get FrSky module and receiver, approx. 45.00 Receivers $25 to $35.

The stock firmware for the 9x works, but is limited. The ER9X firmware, will probably do everything you would ever want to do.

aeajr

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No one flying FlySky or or one of the other 9X for sailplanes?   Surprising!

LovesToSail

I am!

But you already saw my post on other forum

I mostly fly RES with 2 planes that have flaps/ailerons... All are electric...

Scott

aeajr

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Are you using the standard software or did you upgrade to some more advanced software?

Are you using the standard module or did you upgrade to FrSky?

blvdbuzzard

Well I have it in a "SIMPLE" sail plane. Nothing fancy. Does that count? Ailerons, elevator, flaps, air brakes, retract, tow release and rudder? I the flaps mixed with the throttle channel, throttle is the air brakes. I raise the stick, the air brakes come up and flaps go down. I am not using for the crow setup.

I would say you "NEED" to get one and see for your self if it is worth the $55.00 or so to get one. We can tell you all of the great things about it, the bad things about it, but only you will be able to figure out if it is for you.

You have put forth a remarkable effort in research on this radio.

Buzz.

aeajr

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buzz,

LovesToSail

I have upgraded to ER9X (never even tried stock).

I used the Smartieparts adapter board

I installed the RS-232 converter to get real time telemetry

and I use FrSky telemetry...

I wish I could answer your questions regarding the stock firmware but I can't as on day one I moved to ER9X. I only use these radios now on my sailplanes (electric and at most valued to $1K) and as you, fly them way out although I am sight limited and doubt I made it 1/2 mile.

In any case, the 9x/FrSky system I describe below will tell you when you are getting out of RANGE!. (PS - in addition to my gliders which I consider near priceless as they are not available anymore AND I dont have time to build much, I also fly a F27 Stryker, a 50" Edge 540, and small 3D Foamies so this is a versatile system).

Hardware Review
I would not recommend that anyone take these radios and use out of the box like you would a Futaba. First of all, manufacturing on these is not to Futaba or Hitec quality. The design and "parts" internally are good, the circuit boards are very well done, but the point to point wiring can be poor as it appears to be manually done by "cheap" labor. That being said, if you (or a buddy) are not afraid to take the back off and check/repair the wiring (one frayed connection on one joint of my 2 transmitters). I personally would not use one of these without a complete inspection and remedy which can be done in 30 min or less. I believe this same frayed wire issue has effected some well known brands - but not Futaba...

But, this is not that big a deal to inspect (I know it probably sounds bad). Oh by the way, while the back is off? you put Steven's smartieparts non-solder board to allow the flash of the firmware, USB connectivity with your PC and provide a backlight at same time.

The battery holder is utter rubbish and has to be replaced with decent battery - like a LiFe then you dont' worry about that. But pay careful attention, you can put the connector in wrong and trash the radio.

I have completely switched to FrSky 2.4GHz RF solution with telemetry. I trust these like I do Futaba (take them out of the box and use them). On the
6 channel telemetry receiver - I use hot glue to retain the antennas as they are plugged in (so you can swap different length units in).


ER9X SW
I only use these radios now (all others retired) and I can do things with this very few others can regardless of their purchase price...

1) I can connect any channel (throttle, rudder, etc) to any servo number on the receiver. When for example, when using crow, I can set it up the way I want with whatever servo on whatever input.

2) I can mix whatever input with any other channel (add, sub, mul)

3) I can use "curves" on my elevator compensation when motor is on (as opposed to the linear)

4) I also have put in the telemetry mod so I can read telemetry ON the 9x display - the default is you get warning beeps from the RF module when voltage or RSSI (received signal strength at the receiver) is low.

5) Oh yes, one of the telemetry inputs is an ALTITUDE sensor, not very useful for flying the glider as you need to keep on the glider, but your buddy can read it!

6) I can offload all models from transmitter to my PC, simulate them there, modify them (EEPE) and then put them back in transmitter. The transmitter can store about 10-16 models - depending on their complexity.

OVERALL
So, why do I like this radio? Well if you can get past the manufacturers issues with quality (which is not hard work to remedy), you can modify this radio to do ANYTHING from a SW perspective. The first thing is to install a board that is solderless - it mounts on the right pins and permits the following;

1) the ability to upgrade the firmware, 2) the ability to pull plane/models from your PC to the transmitter and back (this is HUGE - you can have 10+ models in memory, but an INFINITE number of models on your computer - think about that), 3) the ability to put a backlight on the display (not that important - but some people want).

On top of this, the SW is open source, so if you feel you want to change it - you can. The gentleman that creates the SW I use goes by the name Erazz (and others) and has simply done a wonderful job with the firmware. Let me give some examples of why I like the firmware.

Dodgson (1987 vintage) Windsong 134" - single servo for flap, independent servos for ailerons (so a 3 servo wing), electric hybrid (got tired of winch time delay in setting up, etc - I am too old to futz with the transport, setup, maint, broken lines, tangled lines, always downwind)

1) Motor thrust compensation - These motors pull like "heck" and they generate a large pitching moment due to the speed of the wing - so I put in a "mix" that introduced down elevator as a function of throttle. This is a "curve", not just a linear multiplier!!!!! So at 50% throttle, not much down elevator, at 75% some down elevator, at 100% about the same as 75%.. but You can make it what you want.

Oh yea, because the pitching moment doesn't occur right away, I put in a filter that slows the pitch command to the elevator servo. Also, when I remove the motor power, I want the servo to slowly move back to neutral (not instantly which would generate a pitch up movement by itself since this mix is applying down elevator). I just recently decided to do this and I like it.

2) Ail to rudder mix - just like the original, I use a little linear mixing of Ail to Rudder.

3) Flap operation - I use a 3 position switch that controls the flaps. I have the flaps drop down slowly and go up slowly to reduce the pitching amplitude. I also use the 3rd position on the switch to reflex (or Crow) the ailerons. Of course I can mix in a "curve" of elevator compensation just for this mix. When I move from position 3 (crow) to position 2, the ailerons move slowly (as they do going up from position 2 (flap) to crow position.).

But if I go from position 3 to 1 - all surfaces move fast to neutral. I like this for landing - come in with flaps, move to 1 and watch it settle as lift is removed quickly.

4) I also use a high expo rate - more now that I am older. In addition, due to the massive thrust of the prop, I change the elevator and rudder "rate" limits (it supports triple rates) limit as a function of throttle position! So for example, at 75% throttle, I limit rudder and elevator to 60% of normal travel.
This helps tame the monster as she is moving out under power. I could do same with ailerons but have not found the need.

5) I use a switch to drop the flaps a "bit" when thermaling (I keep ailerons up but could drop them). Simple enough. Oh by the way, any switch can operate pretty much any command. Also, you can use combinations of switches to set a command or mode.

Of course, travel limits, offsets, etc are all part of the package so no need to mention those. This Transmitter does use all digital trims (which I prefer when moving from plane to plane but I don miss the old mechanical trims for the position feedback while flying).

This is all the mixing I use for the Windsong (the Airtronics Legend I fly is a 4 servo wing but is pretty much the same), but the radio has one more capability worth mentioning. I have switched recently to FrSky 2.4GHz module. Yes this 9x is a modular (JR) radio so you can run FM or any of various 2.4 modules. I used a DIY (solder in) to eliminate a potential failure due to connectors. But with the FrSky, this radio INTEGRATES the telemetry! On MY transmitter's LCD - I can see the voltage of the ESC (typically 5v) as well as a second sensor - right now I have pack voltage. How many times have you flown, then after a long flight you bring it down because you don't know what your pack voltage is? No longer an issue. I should note that I don't personally fly below 50% capacity of a LiPo battery (on purpose anyway). This helps provide me with that confidence.

I need to mention that part of Eraz's package is a PC simulator for the mixing logic. I can try all of the mixes using this PC simulation which is quite cool. All of the mixes, simulator etc are VERY UNIQUE and different - it does require a learning curve but there are forums that provide great support.

There is also a telemetry hub that lets you put in a GPS and altimeter. I bought an altimeter (this one does not require a hub) and have used it - really cool to now see how high my plane is.

Can you tell why I use this Radio? I don't use any other radio due to this one's flexibility. The FrSky RF connection is solid, the telemetry is awesome (I can't go back now as it is much like going from RC to control line) and I trust it. I do a preflight prior to each flight (regardless of radio), range check frequently, inspect planes connections (electrical as well as mechanical fasters on motors, linkages frequently (at least once a year, certainly after any crash). So, I now have a direct measurement of my flight pack voltage (battery V), the RSSI and no longer guess if it is time to land because I am out of battery or out of range.

Scott

blvdbuzzard

Mine is still bone stock. it has the removable module from flysky. I bought mine from Leaders. The difference is the module in mine snaps in while the one from Hobby King and HobbyPartz is hardwired.

I have not had a problem with range. Mine is a 2.3 meter sail plane, she is a pig, so I figure I have had it high enough where it was less then 1/2 inch tip to tip. If that makes any sense. Hold an "OLD: school ruler at arms length, looking at the wing span, it would be less then 1/2 inch long. I have no idea how far away that is. Just trying to give an idea of how far I had it.

Buzz.

Edited for spelling

aeajr

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Scott and Buzz, thanks so much for your reports.   You are helping other sailplane pilots make good decisions about radios by posting these reports.

Clear skies and safe flying!

Aurora_60

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It sounds like the 9x is pretty much an Aurora radio. I haven't looked into either radio in depth, just what I've been hearing on the forums.
Are they the same? Can the 9x do as much as the Aurora?

I'm in the market, again, for a decent system. I had a 14mz but I got ripped off on it before I had a chance to fly it. I have a couple older computer tx: PCM10, 10S, 10sxII, 8103, 8U super and a 9zap wcII. Been a while since I had them out and I cant remember their programming. Whould you recomend updating these with the FrSky 2.4, or get the 9x? I always flew my gliders with simple RES controls and simple mixing. Now I want to do more mixing and crow features.

DM

aeajr

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I would suggest you get get the FrSky module for the radios you have. That will be the lowest cost approach. You already know them and have used them. If they work well, why not continue to use them, especially since you tend to fly simpler sailplanes.

Those are all very capable radios if you want to get into more complex mixing.

But if you want to embark on a new project then go ahead with the 9X. Even the basic software should work for a RESglider.

LovesToSail

NO! Aurora is much higher quality and has much better gimbals than the 9x....

Functionally, 9X can do much with updated SW and I would pit it against anything, its limit being the # of mixes allowed (32 I believe).

I am actually looking at taking the guts of mine and putting it into another chassis with Aurora gimbals...

Bear in mind, the 9x is under $100 but with some updates FUNCTIONALLY can do a lot. Doesnt change the fact that the gimbals are not quad bearing, etc...

Scott

aeajr

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aeajr

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HobbyKing has just released a new Radio, the Turnigy 9XR.  It seems similar to the 9X in function though the case is different.  And it does not use the same SW.  I belive they are basing the new radio on a version of er9X.

I will be interested to hear from anyone who gets one and uses it to set up a full house glider.  It is very very inexpensive.

01VIPER27

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I do as well. I have had it with its original firmware without a problem for a year and I did also upgraded it to ER9X firmware. Best radio I ever bought for flying and sailing. Their new 9XR is just as good already with all the mods and the ER9X on it. I am positive you can do a butterfly on the original 9X and crwo on the ER9X or Open 9X.

The TGY 9X is actualy a Fly Sky Unit that was re-branded for HK. The new TGY 9XR has a Hextronic PCB but looks exactly the same as the Fly Sky PCB.

aeajr

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F5J National Champion of Hungry posts his templates and switch map
for Turnigy 9X, Open9X, using FrSky RF

See Varicopax posts starting on page 9 going to end of page 10.

Basically the same software and RF used in the FrSky Taranis Radio

Seems you don't have to have an expensive radio to be a Champion.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1606788&page=9

aeajr

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If any of you want to fly thosegliders in a great TD contest, we are having one this weekend on Long Island, NY. We will be hosting the Eastern Soaring League and all are welcome.

This will be TD, MOM off 4-5 winches. We now have 32 pilots registered and I expect that to keep going up.

They are cutting the grass today so the field should be in great shape.

If you can be in the NYC area this weekend, come join us. We are about 30 miles East on Long Island.

Registration
http://www.flyesl.org/Contest.aspx?contestid=152