RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring Discuss rc gliders,rc sailplanes and slope soaring in this forum. Thermaling techniques, airfoils, tips, etc

Sailplane - ALES and F5J - Kit MFG????

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Old 11-23-2013, 03:58 PM
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Default Sailplane - ALES and F5J - Kit MFG????

I'm looking at buying a Sailplane that is designed for ALES and F5J competition. I've not flown a sailplane before, but I have flown a wide range of planes. I don't want an EPO (foam), and don't mind spending an extra few pennies as long as the plane is priced right for the design and purpose.

Looking for the full house version (R/A/E/F) that can support spoilers and camber functions as well if it exists. I understand flaps being used as spoilers.

Another question is a good source for succeeding in ALES or F5J and finding thermals with the sail plane...

Just another newbie... kinda...

LD24
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:54 AM
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Success is the result like most activities of practice,practice,practice. Practice flying against a clock for flight task time using your altitude limiter on every launch, practice landing on a spot or shooting for your feet every landing.
Finding and recognizing lift is also a learned skill set, the more you fly, the more you know. You'll get to know the sometimes subtle twitches of flying into lift with your particular aircraft. Then there's the equal challenge of getting sucked up to the exosphere in a brick lifter and trying to get out and save your model from eternally wandering among the clouds. Know your model,be as familiar with it as much as possible. know it's quirks, it's strengths, it's climb scope and time for ranging, know it's glide path for landing and how much and when to use flaps or spoilers. Be able to fly with a crowd, if you can't fly in front of other people or are uncomfortable with it,then learn to overcome these 'fears'. Learn to launch and land with 12 other planes and pilots doing the same thing. Its sounds daunting but it's really easier than all that.
it really is fun....really.

Not stating your budget, I put up some links to vendors who have e-sailplanes and excellent reputations and have good flying birds. Pick one you like.



http://www.espritmodel.com/f5j-alesl...ailplanes.aspx

http://www.soaringusa.com/F5J-LMR-ALES-Electrics/


http://www.icare-rc.com/power_glider.htm

http://www.arthobby.com/#

http://www.kennedycomposites.com/index.html

http://www.skipmillermodels.com/Electric_s/6.htm

http://www.skybench.com/index.html?h....com/home.html
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LD24 View Post
I'm looking at buying a Sailplane that is designed for ALES and F5J competition. I've not flown a sailplane before, but I have flown a wide range of planes. I don't want an EPO (foam), and don't mind spending an extra few pennies as long as the plane is priced right for the design and purpose.

Looking for the full house version (R/A/E/F) that can support spoilers and camber functions as well if it exists. I understand flaps being used as spoilers.

Another question is a good source for succeeding in ALES or F5J and finding thermals with the sail plane...

Just another newbie... kinda...

LD24
Soar RC provided you with good sources.

Why would you want spoilers and flaps?????? It is a rare thing to find because there is really no benefit.

As for training material, radio carbon art is the BEST source there is. www.radiocarbonart.com
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:23 AM
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LD24, did you decide on a new glider?
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Old 12-15-2013, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
LD24, did you decide on a new glider?
I'm considering three, but leaning towards the Fantasy...
http://www.icare-rc.com/fantasy.htm

The other two are...

Omega F5J 2.5e
http://www.soaringusa.com/Omega-F5J-2.5e.html

Spider 2.5 E-Carbon
http://www.soaringusa.com/Spider-2.5-E-Carbon.html

I like the bigger size of the Fantasy... So that will probably be my pick...

Pro's/Con's on these choices?

Appreciate the feedback...

LD24
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:04 AM
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Wingloading ia higher than I would like for a contest ship. I would prefer somethong under 11 oz/sqft and really like under 10 oz as a target for contest work.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
Wingloading ia higher than I would like for a contest ship. I would prefer somethong under 11 oz/sqft and really like under 10 oz as a target for contest work.
I have no reference point for gliders...

Fantasy specs
WS - 3.2m (125")

11oz/sqft on a 1050 wing area platform puts the all up weight about 80.21oz if my math is correct.

Seems very light for electric powered gliders... However, lighter is better...

If this is where I need to be for ALES/F5J, can you recommend some gliders? For me, bigger is better and I need the electric motor version, which is why I liked the Fantasy with a 125" WS.
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Old 12-19-2013, 03:57 PM
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http://flightcomp.com/shop/electra-f...on-spread-tow/
I just got this one , great company
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LD24 View Post
I have no reference point for gliders...

Fantasy specs
WS - 3.2m (125")

11oz/sqft on a 1050 wing area platform puts the all up weight about 80.21oz if my math is correct.

Seems very light for electric powered gliders... However, lighter is better...

If this is where I need to be for ALES/F5J, can you recommend some gliders? For me, bigger is better and I need the electric motor version, which is why I liked the Fantasy with a 125" WS.
You and I must be looking at a different glider.

From the link you pointed to:

[TABLE="width: 296"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Wing Span:[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"] 3.2 m (125")[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Length:[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"]1.55 m (61")[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Wing Area:[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"] 67.8 dm2 (1050 sq. in.)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Wing Airfoil:[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"] MH-32[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Wing Loading:[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"] 44-49 g/dm2 (14.5 oz/sq. ft.)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Flying Weight:[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"] 3.0-3.3kg (105 oz)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Radio:[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"]micro servos and std receiver recommended[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Motor:[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"]7-8 cells: HP220/20/A2 P4 5:1
10-12 cells: Plettenberg ERGO
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Wing loading 14.5 oz. Flying weight 105 oz.
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeajr View Post
You and I must be looking at a different glider.

From the link you pointed to:

[TABLE="width: 296"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Wing Span:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"] 3.2 m (125")
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Length:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"]1.55 m (61")
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Wing Area:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"] 67.8 dm2 (1050 sq. in.)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Wing Airfoil:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"] MH-32
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Wing Loading:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"] 44-49 g/dm2 (14.5 oz/sq. ft.)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Flying Weight:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"] 3.0-3.3kg (105 oz)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Radio:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"]micro servos and std receiver recommended
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 104, bgcolor: #6491f1"]Motor:
[/TD]
[TD="width: 188, bgcolor: #243e75"]7-8 cells: HP220/20/A2 P4 5:1
10-12 cells: Plettenberg ERGO

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Wing loading 14.5 oz. Flying weight 105 oz.
We are looking at the same glider... I wasn't clear in my post...

The Fantasy would need to be 80.21oz total weight to meet an 11oz/sqft wing loading... Tough to shave 23.6% of the weight off the Fantasy to get the wing loading down to 11oz/sqft.

So the follow on question is... Is the target flying weight of less than 11oz/sqft achievable for flying ALES/F5J? If yes, can you provide sources for kits?

I was not able to locate the AMA rules for ALES and only F5J rules for the Europe arena. I haven't found the official FAI rules for F5J.

I understand this is all new and upcoming... So any help on this would be much appreciated... Perhaps starting another post would be better on the rulles topic...
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Old 12-20-2013, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcterrettaz View Post
http://flightcomp.com/shop/electra-f...on-spread-tow/
I just got this one , great company
Looks like this would be well under 11oz/sqft flying weight...
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:07 AM
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Lots of e-gliders, that are ALES appropriate, are under 11 oz/sq ft. Some are under 8 oz/Sq Ft.

Understand that I come form the world of pure gliders where my contest full house ships are under 65 ounces, under 9 oz/sq ft and my contest RES ships are under 6 ounces per Sq ft. My Radian is about 6.5 oz/sq ft. I had a Legend 2.9M that was 80 ounces and I considered it a brick.

For electric soaring the weights tend to be higher in the moderate priced range. For me, going to 11 oz, for a thermal soaring glider is like flying my contest ships fully ballasted. 14 oz is ... heavy. Doesn't mean you can't win with it, it just isn't anything I would buy for contest work except for very windy conditions. Sport flying it might be fine.

Mystique - WL under 11 - by specs
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...arf-EFL4905#t2

Mystique RES - WL under 10.5, by specs
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...arf-EFL4915#t2

Albatross - WL under 11
http://www.espritmodel.com/albatros-3se-arf.aspx

Gracia - WL around 11
http://www.espritmodel.com/gracia-31e-f5jales-arf.aspx

Pulsar - very popular ALES ship - under 9 oz
http://www.espritmodel.com/pulsar-3-2e-pro-arf.aspx

Supra E - 9.5 oz
http://www.kennedycomposites.com/suprae.htm

Not on Kennedy web site but he has them - Supra Electric Light (not suitable for winch) - All up weigh around 60 ounces - Under 9 oz WL
http://f3j.in.ua/en/electric-rc-gliders.html

Ibis should be under 9 oz
http://www.arthobby.com/index.php?pa...ry=50&item=296





They are out there. Lots of them. All you have to do is click on the links and read the specs.

Which are great ALES gliders? That remains to be seen. My expectation is that the high ended molded gliders will typically be the top competitors at the high price end. But many, like the Pulsars, are light weight open bay designs and are very popular ALES ships.

Since you don't need that strong, heavy spar for the winch, you can build them a lot lighter than the winched gliders. There is now a Supra electric that is as light as the pure gliders but it will not stand up to a winch launch.

Select your electronics carefully and use small but high C rated Lipos and the e-gliders can be close to the pure gliders in weight and wing loading.

Just click and read specs. They are out there.

If you plan to fly ALES and want to do well I think you need to pay attention to weight and wing loading. It is not THE most important factor but it is one to watch. And if you really want to be reasonably competitive then you might have a heavy glider for windy conditions and a lighter glider for light conditions. Many of these ALES ships lack ballasting ability. So that 14 ounce WL glider might be appropriate as your heavy glider for those windy days.

AMA ALES Rules
http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2...14Electric.pdf

Search on ALES or Event 631
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:52 AM
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Great information... Thanks... I did look at the RES Mystic 2.9 actually. I wanted ailerons and didn't notice the other one with them.

Looking at the Mystic, one poster stated a design flaw... However, it appears more likely that they may have been flying a powered glider like a sport plane and the wings failed under the higher "G" loading.

I like the plane that jcterrettaz posted... A bit on the high side... Curious what the actual all up flying weight is on it?
http://flightcomp.com/shop/electra-f...on-spread-tow/
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