FBaity

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Anyone flying the new ARF 2.9m Mystique? Would like to hear the good, the bad and the ugly.

Thanks

Don McCullough

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Generally the Mystique, either as full-house or the RES version, is a great airplane. I regularly compete in ALES with the full-house version. Very predictable, especially landing. On the other forum group site there are long threads on both versions. The main complaint about the full-house version is the instruction manual in setting up the flaps and ailerons. A series of videos at the horizon web site describes that. There are some reports of wing issues with the RES version, however most seem for guys flying it like a hot liner. I am one very content owner.

FBaity

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Don,

Thx for your reply. ALES?, RES? What type of wing issue are you hearing about?

aeajr

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How to Build an eFlite Mystique – 7 part video series
Good demo of how to assemble this e-glider and similar gliders. If you have been avoiding ARF type gliders because you were unsure how to assemble them, this video series will be a big help
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL57e6gtFP9OYRshLRpg4OAvIqZ_z9VWBO

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

ALES = Altitude Limited Electric Soaring - a contest format

RES = Rudder elevator Spoilers - A wing configuration

Mystique is available as a RES or full house (R/E/A/F) glider or e-glider.

Some pilots have reported that in a high speed dive they have seen some flutter, I presume aileron flutter. Can't provide more info than that.

MX240

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I love my full house version. I haven't had any wing issues but, I don't push it.
Best thermal plane I have ever flown.

BarracudaHockey

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I did pretty well with it at an ALES event last month. I probably would have walked with a trophy but I motor bailed and 0/0'd one flight to save the plane.

It was reviewed on Page 61 of the August 2013 Model Aviation

kneeforu

Great link, thanks for posting.

Question however… In part two of the video series, he talks about arm position on the servo. Because the push rod comes out at an angle and you need 20 degrees throw in both directions, he talks about putting the servo arm at 90 degrees to the servo. However I think this is wrong. I think he is trying to say, put the servo arm so it is at 90 degrees to the push rod, thereby allowing enough clearance in both directions. I have built several planes, and understand the concepts. But after watching that video, I was confused as it seems to me he was contradicting the point he was trying to make.

Servo arm at 90 degrees to neutral position of the servo, or at 90 degrees to the pushrod?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

90 degrees to the servo.

Since the pushrod comes in at an angle you get built in differential, which you don't need mechanically anyways with any kind of decent sailplane radio.

FBaity

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I priced the Mystique out using Andy's MA article........those servos no longer in stock but with two batteries the package was a little rich for me

aeajr

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Well, you certainly don't have to use those servos. There are many lower cost options. And there are motor packages and batteries that cost less too. But the Mystique airframe is very very reasonable of an ARF of this size and quality. I doubt you will find much at a significantly lower cost but there are a few.

cooper998

having owned one for several months now i can safely say it fly's great... after some tweaking!
At the recomended cg it would stall very easily and the plane would pick up speed quickly which resulted in a flutter severe enough to break servo horns and strip one servo. The good part is the wing is strong enough to survive the flutter if caught right away.

After moving the cg forward and putting in hitec 5085 digital servos in along with stiffer 4-40 linkage the flutter is almost under control. Most of my recent flights have restored my faith in this plane and its now a pleasure to fly with most of my flights over 40 minutes and the longest just under two hours. I have learned to quickly drop the flaps if she starts to pick up speed and have not experienced any flutter since.

tony

DRC1

My Feedback: (10)

Curious.... for those experiencing flutter...

Are you using analog or digital servos? Are they the less expensive or pricey servos?

Are you sealing the control surfaces (hinge line gap)?

Is there an opinion that the plane is being flown beyond it's intended design regarding speed?

LD24

BarracudaHockey

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There's no hinge gap, its integral and the stab is full flying.

aeajr

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Yes there are less expensive servos available.

bodywerks

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"a little rich" is a relative term. And when you compare the cost of this plane to high end electric sailplanes, the total flying cost of this glider is less than what it would cost to replace one section of the wing of the pro ships! Then account for the product support you get from Horizon hobby and you are looking at arguably the best value ever in a full house ship of this size!
And you don't have to equip the glider with all horizon hobby equipment. I went with Hobby King EVERYTHING, which knocked a good $150 or so off the price.
I went with this outrunner. $37. The advantage is that the rotor is housed inside the motor and the connector is on the back of the motor. It is a direct fit, no modification needed option. In fact I think it's easier to install/use than the power 25:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
I went with these servos for the wings. $27 apiece for digital/BB/MG. Also pretty puch a direct fit(had to grind off a tab on each of the flap servos):
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._23g_USA_.html
This ESC. $35. It works fine:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
Two of these batteries. $32. More than good enough:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html
What's that, $230??? add a couple rudder/elevator servos and receiver and you're only into a performance full house ship for about $650-$700. Yes, you can buy three radian Pros for that price, but I can 100% assure you that this glider will sail circles around it! I only have 10 flights on mine so far, but I'm in love!

CleanLivin

How far back from the leading edge of the wing, at the fuse, did you finally set your CG?

Thanks

cooper998

I have flown anywhere from 107MM to as far back as 115mm but the most stable has been right around 110mm.
I have not flown it in a while and will probably have it out again in the next week or two. One of my issues was the lack of yaw control with the stock rudder and I had modified the stock one to increase the cord my an inch which helped tremendously so I just recently replaced it with the yellow RES version which is larger than stock and also quite a bit lighter than my jury rigged wide cord version so i'll have to re balance the plane again.

Hope this helped,

Tony

P.S. barracudahockey had mentioned there was no hinge gap and as such there really isnt but you do need to account for the large gap at the bottom of the ailerons since it is a top hinged surface and the open space can possibly contribute to turbulence.

rpschwenk

I have the res and do not like the way it turns. I am fairly new to sailplanes being only my third.
I have experience with pattern and extra type aircraft. I admit I may not have it
set up right, I really miss the airelons. Any help with the turning would be appreciated

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

The large polyhedral, along with the enlarged rudder on the RES are what allows you to get away without ailerons.

Mine will turn fairly tightly with only the rudder but I grew up flying RE and RES sailplanes so to me, the Mystique was nothing different in that aspect.

What about the way it turns bugs you?

rpschwenk

Thanks for the reply, it seems to yaw too much, almost like
it is fighting a right turn by trying to turn left. That being said
extras spoil you as they basicaly fly themselves. Glad for any
input from you people with experiece. I flew the allusive today
for the first time and to me miles ahead of the mystique

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Thats not really a fair comparison though, apples and oranges.

The Allusive you can take it nearly out of sight and dive at the deck and it whistles nicely along.

Try that with a Mystique and you will re-kit it.

So I wouldn't say the Allusive flys "better" just "differently". For what it is, the RES is a very capable thermal glider that is easy to fly and has a low pilot work load compared to the full house version and doesn't require fancy glider mixing.

Really just depends on what you're after

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Let me offer these thoughts. I am not down on power pilots and am thrilled when one tries soaring but if you don't have a coach it can be frustrating as it is a different type of flying.

Pattern and Extras are all about flying the plane, running the pattern, crisp response and the like. It is all about flying the plane, all the time.

Thermal soaring sailplanes are about reading the air, detecting lift and working it. Flying the plane, the glider, is just the method we use to find and work that lift. Actually most of the time we fly virtually hands off so the glider can drift in the air and respond to the currents. The less we touch it the better.

So crisp handling and the like are not focused design elements of a thermal duration glider, especially a RES glider, when compared to pattern planes. You are not going to fly aerobatics with a RES mystique like you do a pattern plane. You want to let it alone, like the float on your fishing line, and watch for it to bob.

I have been through this discussion with very experienced power pilots who tried thermal soaring. While they were cranking the glider around and complaining about poor handling and how quickly it came down, the glider pilots were flying, virtually hands off, watching and reading the air and staying up forever. We are watching the glider, not flying it. We are using the glider to read the air.

With sailplanes it is not unusual to fly that glider, in a thermal, so high and so far out that you can hardly see it. Having a lot of smooth stability in the design is a huge benefit. And RES gliders are especially good at this. And those big up-swept wings are easier to see at distance than flat wings.

Try flying your extra when you can't see the tail and the wings are just a dark spot in the sky.

Another observation is that power pilots tend to run their gliders too nose heavy. They have them balanced at the "plans point". A nose heavy glider, especially a nose heavy RES glider is very sluggish in response.

Most of the glider pilots have the CG pushed back to make the glider more sensitive to lift and responsive to inputs. I was tuning a 2M Spirit for a power pilot who complained that it flew like crap. Well he was right. It was balanced "at the plans" recommendation. After I pulled 1.5 ounces of lead out of the nose it flew a LOT better and we started getting it into thermals. If your Mystique RES is sluggish, try moving the CG back a little at a time. I can stand my RES glides up on a wing tip and circle them that way, and they have no motors. Sometimes that is how I work a thermal.

The Mystique RES is designed to work thermals and for that purpose it is good. You would get a similar experience from flying an AVA or Bubble Dancer. I have put some of my RES gliders into a thermal and given them a couple of clicks of rudder and they would ride that thermal up and up with the radio on the ground.

The Allusive, as a warm liner, is an aerobatic glider design that is more optimized for crisp response and aerobatics and less for hands off thermal soaring. It can thermal, but it would not be my first choice for a thermal soaring glider.

So, what is the attraction of glider pilots to full house, flaps and ailerons, gliders? Camber control! We use the sailplane mixes in our radios to reshape the wing in the air. The ailerons are not there because we want to fly knife edges but because we want to change the shape of the wing to extract the most energy possible from the air.

rpschwenk

Thanks for the info. Let me add, you are obviously very knowledable
in an area that I am not. Thanks again for taking the time to explain
things.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Any new Mystique pilots? Or any flight reports you want to share?

Problems we can help solve?