Bird of Time
08-18-2016, 04:10 AM
#1
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Bird of Time
Has anyone converted the flying elevator to a secured stab and operating elevator? Any idea how this would affect the controlling of the Bird of Time?
Mike Diesu
[email protected]
Mike Diesu
[email protected]
10-25-2016, 08:43 AM
#2
Hello!
I am surprised you have not gotten a response before now, your question is a good one other than why would you want to change it other than curiosity? a good place to repeat this question would be in a glider thread.
I don't think the change would make a vast difference, but trying it would be interesting, I could add a lot of tech. talk but my knowledge in that area isn't supported by my smarts.
If you try it please report your results.
good luck!
I am surprised you have not gotten a response before now, your question is a good one other than why would you want to change it other than curiosity? a good place to repeat this question would be in a glider thread.
I don't think the change would make a vast difference, but trying it would be interesting, I could add a lot of tech. talk but my knowledge in that area isn't supported by my smarts.
If you try it please report your results.
good luck!
10-25-2016, 06:53 PM
#3
As I understand it, the BoT was designed as an unlimited class sailplane and as such, the rule of the game would be to have the smoothest possible airflow and control responses to keep drag to an absolute minimum. A full-flying tail fills this bill, a traditional horizontal stab/elevator creates turbulence right at the hinge point, thus, drag increases.
For normal, non-competitive flying, it wouldn't make much difference at all - but I'm with Donny. If you try it, I'd be interested in a flight report.
My own BoT with full-flying tail:
For normal, non-competitive flying, it wouldn't make much difference at all - but I'm with Donny. If you try it, I'd be interested in a flight report.
My own BoT with full-flying tail:
10-26-2016, 06:44 AM
#4
Dave
That is a very pretty bird you got there, is it from a kit? I've wanted one for a long time but too many projects in the way.
I concur with your description about the tail, If time permitted I would try the elev. conversion just to see the results.
Happy flying!........................................DON NY
That is a very pretty bird you got there, is it from a kit? I've wanted one for a long time but too many projects in the way.
I concur with your description about the tail, If time permitted I would try the elev. conversion just to see the results.
Happy flying!........................................DON NY
10-26-2016, 08:04 PM
#5
Hey Donny! Yeah, it's an original Dynaflite kit, slightly modified. The original kit mentioned spoilers but passed on ZERO guidance. Being that this was my first try at spoilers I figured most of the central wing section had to be involved - WRONG!!! I did 5 bays wide, 1" chord on the spoilers. My next one will be 2 bays wide, 1" chord - should be more than enough. In the 4th pic you can see the TINY bit the spoilers are deployed. Much more than that, she goes into a vertical dive. First time I ever deployed them, she was about 500' up and I just dropped the stick to zero (using my throttle stick/channel) and they went full open - she was screaming for the ground in just a couple seconds. I learned how much to use rather quickly, and it ain't much.
Also, same pic, you can see the gravel road. You CAN'T see how rough the general ground (grass) area is - it was graded 15 years ago with a dozer bucket (toothed) and seeded. To preserve the tow hook on this type of ground I added a shallow chin (1/4" thick) which is visible in pic 4 AND extended the "wire" tail drag another full inch longer, bending it to be more vertical too. This came about because several of my other gliders have had their tow hooks broken when they were landing - usually on the more "greased-in" landings because they're a bit faster and the hook hits the hidden stones a bit harder. The 2 mods work quite nicely.
My next one will have a couple more mods to it. If you remember the older sailplanes - specifically the Aquila or Aquila Grande - they had what could be called a full-flying rudder also. Vertical stab ended just above the elevator and the rest of the whole assembly was rudder. SUPER EFFECTIVE!!!!!! I also intend to incorporate 3-bay wide flaps, working with the spoilers, to act as airbrakes. Just kinda curious to see how that might work.
Pics - my first Aquila in 1973 (orange - sorry 'bout the horrid quality), and a pic from the web (red). For both pics, all colored sections of the tail are full-flying. LOVED those wingtips - you could turn a full 360 degrees and she could stay horizontal. No banking at all.
Also, same pic, you can see the gravel road. You CAN'T see how rough the general ground (grass) area is - it was graded 15 years ago with a dozer bucket (toothed) and seeded. To preserve the tow hook on this type of ground I added a shallow chin (1/4" thick) which is visible in pic 4 AND extended the "wire" tail drag another full inch longer, bending it to be more vertical too. This came about because several of my other gliders have had their tow hooks broken when they were landing - usually on the more "greased-in" landings because they're a bit faster and the hook hits the hidden stones a bit harder. The 2 mods work quite nicely.
My next one will have a couple more mods to it. If you remember the older sailplanes - specifically the Aquila or Aquila Grande - they had what could be called a full-flying rudder also. Vertical stab ended just above the elevator and the rest of the whole assembly was rudder. SUPER EFFECTIVE!!!!!! I also intend to incorporate 3-bay wide flaps, working with the spoilers, to act as airbrakes. Just kinda curious to see how that might work.
Pics - my first Aquila in 1973 (orange - sorry 'bout the horrid quality), and a pic from the web (red). For both pics, all colored sections of the tail are full-flying. LOVED those wingtips - you could turn a full 360 degrees and she could stay horizontal. No banking at all.
10-27-2016, 07:46 AM
#6
Dave
I have gliders but haven't used them for one reason or other, I have flown one and was thrilled when it caught a thermal.
not many planes are as pretty in the air as a sleak glider with sun passing through the covering.
I have to stop talking about gliders because I will stop what I ambuilding and start putting one together increasing the number of half built bird in my hanger. But seeing how pretty your bird is has got me all wound up.
That flat turn ability of your AQUILA? would be excellent to use in a thermal,............AWWWH heck you got my brain working again .....................gotta stop thinking bout these gliders.
I have gliders but haven't used them for one reason or other, I have flown one and was thrilled when it caught a thermal.
not many planes are as pretty in the air as a sleak glider with sun passing through the covering.
I have to stop talking about gliders because I will stop what I ambuilding and start putting one together increasing the number of half built bird in my hanger. But seeing how pretty your bird is has got me all wound up.
That flat turn ability of your AQUILA? would be excellent to use in a thermal,............AWWWH heck you got my brain working again .....................gotta stop thinking bout these gliders.
Last edited by donnyman; 10-27-2016 at 07:52 AM.
10-27-2016, 12:35 PM
#7
YUP! After all, that was the idea. I just KNEW you didn't have enough already on your plate.
However, that flat turn - the Aquila is the only plane (3-channel) I've ever gotten to do it. All you had to do was hit just a little bit of down elevator as you cranked in the rudder. I don't know why it worked, but it worked.
However, that flat turn - the Aquila is the only plane (3-channel) I've ever gotten to do it. All you had to do was hit just a little bit of down elevator as you cranked in the rudder. I don't know why it worked, but it worked.
01-20-2017, 10:45 AM
#9
Depends heavily on how much the spoilers are deployed. If I keep them just a bit, like in the last pic above, she comes in rather flat with just a bit of up elevator. If I deploy them more than about 1/2 she goes into a dive that is near vertical - no matter how much elevator I throw in. My next set of wings (a true probability) will feature spoilers that are 2 bays wide, .5" deep/tall/(front-back). This is my first "spoiler" plane and I was really surprised at just how effective they really are. It apparently doesn't take much to eliminate nearly all lift on a wing - she's really taught me a lot about that.
One thing I've gotten pretty good at, with the BoT, is bringing her down from WAY HIGH UP. I found that 1/4 - 1/3 deployment, along with full up elevator, will bring her down pretty flat, and amazingly quickly - she doesn't build up much forward speed at all. I'm sure that, with enough practice, I could bring her all the way to the ground that way - just haven't done it yet.
One thing I've gotten pretty good at, with the BoT, is bringing her down from WAY HIGH UP. I found that 1/4 - 1/3 deployment, along with full up elevator, will bring her down pretty flat, and amazingly quickly - she doesn't build up much forward speed at all. I'm sure that, with enough practice, I could bring her all the way to the ground that way - just haven't done it yet.
