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Learning to use a hi-start

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Old 12-11-2008, 10:35 AM
  #26  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start


ORIGINAL: qldviking

Hi Ed, you are probably right in that my system is too light to effectively launch my old glider, but it worked well enough to get my baby up high enough to find lift, even if it was slowly. It was also easy enough that I could launch on my own. The reason I lost it wasnt thru a bad launch, rather it was a radio/rx malfunction where I lost complete contatc with the glider about 60 seconds after launch. The glider had just been refitted with new pivot on the T-tail, new rudder hinges, new servo's, battery and rx. I was using a near new DX7 which I had had glitches with in the past, but it worked well enough on the first 2 flights that day, and after a full recharge on a 4500 mah pack I launched again, and after getting levelled out and starting to look for lift I totally lost any control and never regained it. At my club, nobody uses 2.4g any more for the same reason. I have gone back to using 36mhz (aust freq ) where at least most if not all nasty's are known. I have since sold my DX7. I hope to be getting some plans from another member here soon, and will build another big bird, I miss my baby lots [] I loved the long lazy flights where I could relax and enjoy it, flights of 30 minutes plus were the norm, with my longest being over 5 1/2 hours, and had a number of others having a fly too. thats why the big battery pack I have several electrics, but they just aint the same


I have several electric launche gliders too. They are soooo easy and so convenient, and it just ain't the same for me either.

Hi-starts and winches all the way!
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Ed, thanks for taking the time to post those links, i myself pretty much learned on my own and what a learning curve it was. Thankfully theres these forums full of usefull info. I started with a Dynaflite heavy duty high start which seemed to be okay, i launched my BOT many times and then i bought a used 3M Esteem, the launches always seemed very slow and the plane wanted to wander on the way up, i always thought it was my lack of piloting skills and some was but when i bought a Hosemonster catapult what a difference that made. the Hosemonster is 50' of 3/8 rubber a 50' of line then a 125' clipped to that. Ive since graduated to a Experience pro that i bought used and still fly the Esteem no more drifting one way or another most launches are straight up the line, now all i need is some more practice on my zooms just cant seem to get my timing right but im sure someday that will come.

Steve
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:29 PM
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

On 50 feet of 3/8 hosemonster I would have about 200-225 feet of line. If you have a head wind of over 10 mph you can probably add another 50-100 feet as the breeze will take the plane up like a kite. The rubber might never even fully contract.

I have launched my supra on a very stron hi-start in 12 mph winds and it goes so high and the rubber does not fully contract. I just keep adding line till the launch seems to run out of gas too soon, then I take some off. Takes a little experimentation to see what is the optimum line lenght.

I normally launch with a pull that is 4-6X the weight of my glider. On my supra ( 4 pounds ) I iwll launch at 24 pounds pull in light conditions and about 20 pounds of pull in the wind since the wind helps take it up.
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:34 PM
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Im about ready to add another 100' of line just to see how it works, right now i would est. my launches off of the catapult to be some where around 300 to 400' feet and thats with my sos so zooms. Just kinda curious since i really dont have anyone flying gliders close by that i could watch, when is the right or should i say optimum time to stat the zoom on the high start?
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:07 PM
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Typically when the line hits about a 60 degree angle, +/- 10 degrees. No hard and fast rules, but that would be a good target.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Thanks Ed, im still learning and learn more every time i fly. Ive been mainly focusing on the plane going straight up the line and i have been practiceing on cross wind launches every time it gets better. Now it's time to get out the winch i just finished up and give it a try, it's got to be better than trying to hold a plane against those Hosemonsters, i don't know what kind of poundage im pulling but it's very hard to hold onto the plane and tx so...... when i'm flying by myself i dont get those high launches, but at least we're flyin.

Steve
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Old 12-20-2008, 12:36 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Hi all. Think its my first post on RCU. Only two of us here in Jamaica ever fly pure sailplanes so that's not enough to buy a winch, so we use a hi-start (pinnacle large). I have launched the Spirit, the Daydream (both 2m) and also the Polecat Thermal Dancer (3M) and the Ava with it. Hi-starts are great and they work, but so far nobody has discussed any disadvantages/downsides. When launching the big boys it can get real exciting and is very much a physical work-out! Hi-start launching is where the model is at the most risk. These are things to look out for...especially when launching large models w/o assistance.

-Once the pull gets really strong if you have sweaty/slippery hands you will have a problem holding the plane and positioning for the launch. Two hands are needed for the pull-back, but transitioning to the one-handed launch moment can be tricky. A wood fuse can actually be crushed from the pressure at this point, so for larger planes I actually prefer a strong composite body.
-Now the acceleration is really fast with this amount of pull...so keep your head clear of the stab. You have like 3 seconds to "hold with one hand, level the wings, duck & throw". If the stab clips your head the plane could be destroyed.
-Some planes seem to be specifically designed for a winch. My Ava is a good example. Because the belly curves upward in the tow hook area the hi-start ring has a difficult time sliding off at the top of the launch. We don't get pop-offs with this plane but you must zoom pretty good (winch-style) to come off the line. This plane is big and draggy for the hi-start so acceleration is a bit slow (and in any case the plane will not go up faster than the parachute drag will allow) so the technique is to push over for the zoom before reaching the top. In the zoom with the Ava you must pull to almost vertical to slip the ring off the hook. Without adequate speed the plane simply stalls at the top and remains connected. Imagine your glider being pulled back downwards by the hi-start-not good! My ava has gone completely inverted, me looking at the top. When I managed to disconnect it recovered at about 10 ft flying straight downwind back towards me. The hook is tough and I can't bend it open, so I filed off the inside edge. Things improved a bit.
On another occasion I dived so hard for a good zoom that the plane actually accelerated off the hook and overtook the parachute. The chute snagged the stab and the plane went in (but no damage, the nose stuck into soft mud).

That's what hi-starting with large planes is all about. Be careful and make sure your radio is on!
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:16 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Northwest, around here back when I flew a lot of sailplane competitions more than one person had sandpaper grip pads on the fuselage to make holding it easier against the tension. This applied to both highstart and winch use since the really serious guys stomp on the winch and wind it up until there's easily the same or more tension than you're feeling with the high start. Only at that point do they give 'er a big javelin like throw to get the model off to a really good start. A slip at that point could be.... shall we say.... "interesting"? So the sandpaper patches are really something to consider if you find it in the slightest way uncomfortable to hold the model.
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:09 AM
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Hey, the sandpaper grip is a great idea! I'll try that on my Ava.
Thanks.
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start


ORIGINAL: northwest

Hi all. Think its my first post on RCU. Only two of us here in Jamaica ever fly pure sailplanes so that's not enough to buy a winch, so we use a hi-start (pinnacle large). I have launched the Spirit, the Daydream (both 2m) and also the Polecat Thermal Dancer (3M) and the Ava with it. Hi-starts are great and they work, but so far nobody has discussed any disadvantages/downsides. When launching the big boys it can get real exciting and is very much a physical work-out! Hi-start launching is where the model is at the most risk. These are things to look out for...especially when launching large models w/o assistance.

-Once the pull gets really strong if you have sweaty/slippery hands you will have a problem holding the plane and positioning for the launch. Two hands are needed for the pull-back, but transitioning to the one-handed launch moment can be tricky. A wood fuse can actually be crushed from the pressure at this point, so for larger planes I actually prefer a strong composite body.

-Now the acceleration is really fast with this amount of pull...so keep your head clear of the stab. You have like 3 seconds to "hold with one hand, level the wings, duck & throw". If the stab clips your head the plane could be destroyed.
When using a hi-start you can adjust how much pull by the distance you walk back. It is not necessary to pull back 3X the rubber length for every plane.

My hi-start is a pinnical XL, which is stronger than yours. When launching my Supra or the AVA, I might pull back 250 feet and fell that is plenty. That will give me about 24 pounds of pull. Considering the AVA weighs about 2.5 pounds, that is 9X the plane's weight. More than enough. It would launch every well at 12 pounds of pull.

The Supra wrigths 4 pounds, so that gives me 6X the plane's weight. More than enough. On a lighter hi-start, like the Pinnical Large I would imagine you get about 16-20 punds of pull at 300 foot pull. That can be a lot for some people to handle alone, but you don't have to pull back that far, especially if you are launching into a breeze. And, as I recall, there is almost always a breeze in Jamica.


When I launch my Spirit, I only pull back about 150 feet on the Pinnical XL, which gives me about 14 pounds of pull, or about 5.5X the plane's weight. Way more than enough. It would launch very nicely at 10 pounds using a lighter hi-start.


-Some planes seem to be specifically designed for a winch. My Ava is a good example. Because the belly curves upward in the tow hook area the hi-start ring has a difficult time sliding off at the top of the launch. We don't get pop-offs with this plane but you must zoom pretty good (winch-style) to come off the line. This plane is big and draggy for the hi-start so acceleration is a bit slow (and in any case the plane will not go up faster than the parachute drag will allow) so the technique is to push over for the zoom before reaching the top. In the zoom with the Ava you must pull to almost vertical to slip the ring off the hook. Without adequate speed the plane simply stalls at the top and remains connected. Imagine your glider being pulled back downwards by the hi-start-not good! My ava has gone completely inverted, me looking at the top. When I managed to disconnect it recovered at about 10 ft flying straight downwind back towards me. The hook is tough and I can't bend it open, so I filed off the inside edge. Things improved a bit.
On another occasion I dived so hard for a good zoom that the plane actually accelerated off the hook and overtook the parachute. The chute snagged the stab and the plane went in (but no damage, the nose stuck into soft mud).

That's what hi-starting with large planes is all about. Be careful and make sure your radio is on!
While the AVA and the Supra are designed to withstand the higher stress of a winch, there is nothing about them that would make them difficult for hi-start launching. I have never seen any of the tendancies you mention when launching off a hi-start.

I think what you are seeing is caused by the fact that these planes have large wing areas. If there is a breeze, they can actually pull back on the hi-start as they climb preventing it from fully contracting. This is VERY good in that it will give you higher launches. But if you just want to float off the line, you have to take the tension out of the line.

This has nothing to do with the design of the plane and everything do do with how the pilot flies the hi-start. If you are getting too much pull from the plane, move the hook forward. But, of course you will give up some altitude this way.

Personally when I launch my Supra or AVA on a breezy day, I add 100 feet of line and get awesome launches.
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Old 12-26-2008, 01:43 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

I did my first launch back in -76 I think. So far I haven`t crashed once during launching (knock on wood), but once I had a close call... I think my Dandy was 10 meters above ground after 4 seconds, 70` from horisontal [X(] I had read if full rudder input didn`t help, then add "wrong" rudder... I did; the Dandy did 3/4 of a snap-roll and climbed as intended! Don`t know if I would dare to do it again.

By the way; the most common problem I have seen when newbies try to launch is they use their left hand. I tell people to always use their right hand (if not left-handed!) because it is more important to give a firm controlled toss than having the hand on the elevator! A firm toss! Do not just let go of the glider.

Two years ago I did cut one of my 30 meter (100ft) rubbers in half, and used 80 meters of ultralight line. This lightweight bungee setup did give at least same height as the "full length" bungee when I launch smaller and light sailplanes in windy conditions. Because the weight of rubber and line on smaller gliders is an issue...

Ouch, it is -4`C outside, no thermals [:'(] But the slopes are still working!
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:01 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Let's bring this one back to the top.

I started it so people who might hesitate to try a pure glider would feel better prepared to use a hi-start. So, newbies, are you giving silent flight a try?

Old Pros, any new tips for hi-start launching?
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:56 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Time to bring this one back to help the new glider pilots who are just now learning to fly using a hi-start.

Even though I own a winch and retriver I still pull out the hi-start to go flying at times. Works just as good as the first time. And it seems to be a more graceful launch than the winch or an electric glider.

Hi-starts, they are great!
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Old 09-07-2009, 06:17 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

I've got a Hanger-9 G-force (50' rubber / 150' line). I unrolled it at the field, stepped off 50 paces per the directions - about 150 feet, hooked on my Aspire R/E plane (2 meter balsa beginner), gave it 45 degrees w/ neutral controls and let her go upwind. I've done this about 10 - 15 times with no problems.

However, I'm not sure I'm getting the "advertised" height. I'd guess I'm getting maybe 100 feet - if that. The launch seems normal, and the hook falls off naturally - it's just that my height is less than expected. That, plus my inexperience has left me thermal-less - though still highly motivated!

Perhaps I should go for less of a take-off angle and trade initial (right after I let go) height for level - but much faster - launch acceleration. That way I could let acceleration / momentum give me the desired height.

Ideas, people?

FWIW, the plane is C.G'.ed and laterally balanced. From a gentle toss at about 5 feet, it will "straight line" for about 150 feet in dead air. I don't know if that is good, typical, or otherwise...

Best... Roger Parrett / Dayton, OH (and proud new member of LSF)
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Old 09-07-2009, 07:18 PM
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

ORIGINAL: RogerParrett
However, I'm not sure I'm getting the ''advertised'' height. I'd guess I'm getting maybe 100 feet - if that. The launch seems normal, and the hook falls off naturally - it's just that my height is less than expected. That, plus my inexperience has left me thermal-less - though still highly motivated!

Your line is 150' and your glider should be just about straight over the pin with some tension still in the rubber (so the line is 150' worth of tight) when you release, so you're not getting close to full height.

The problem? The instructions that specify a pleasant walk back of 50' aren't really very appropriate.

"the hook falls off" is another clue. The casual walk back isn't putting much energy into the rubber. The release should "PING" when the ring pops off the hook. You should hear the parachute POP at the release. That'll show you there was still some pull in the rubber. No way should the ring just fall off the hook.

Try adding 10 more paces to that walk back. Feed in a touch of UP as soon as you got both hands on the TX to pull against the rubber. If the string is slack at release, add 10 more paces and try again. You want the rubber pulling enough before you throw the sucker that that launch will prove the wing isn't cracked. In other words, put some force into it.

Flying with experienced glider guys would have covered all this. I used to fly with a guy who broke highstarts about once a year. And he was really good at zoom launches. Zoom launches........... that's for the next lesson.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:12 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Thanks daRock for your input.

When I said that I stepped off 50 paces, I suspect that I put in about 150 feet. That sort of goes along with what the instructions said and what I've read... meaning that the rubber can stretch about 3x of it's slack length.

So you think that I can do a bit farther? Also, even though I launch at 45 degrees (maybe less) I'd say that the plane goes to near 70-80 degrees, and I have (or feel the need) to give a bit of down elevator to prevent it from acting like a kite.

Unfortunately, as far as the more experienced flyers to assist me - I'm it...lol. My current club is (as far as I know), nitro and electric planes and 'copters. I also fly nitro planes. But I get to the field VERY early in the morning, do my glider thing, and pack up the hi-start before the others show up since I don't want my lines to interfere with powered take-offs.

I'm joining a local sailplane club later this month, but for now this is what I'm working with.

Best... Roger Parrett
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Old 09-07-2009, 11:32 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Some thoughts:

Get yourself a scale, typically a fish scale and see how much pull you are getting. Your Aspire probably weighs 2 to 2.5 pounds. So you want a pull on the hi-start of 6-12 pounds. What pull are you getting? A minimum of 3X the weight of the glider is needed and I usually launch at 4-5X the weight of the glider.

Are you launching into the wind? That is very important! Think of launching a kite with the wings being the kite. More verticle the wings the more resistance to the pull and the higher the climb.

150 feet of line on 50 feet of rubber seems a bit short. On 50 feet of rubber I would normally have about 200' of string, or 4 to one. And, when there is a good breeze, you might try adding another 50. But that assumes at least a 3X pull. But first get good with what you have before trying to add more line.

Tell us about the launch angle. You say you are launching it at around 45 degrees. That is OK, but you will get a higher launch if the plane is able to rottate into a steeper angle. say more like 60 or 75 degrees? When I launch one of my competition planes, the plane goes almost verticle, but don't strive for that till you become very good at launching. The steeper the climb angle the higher the launch.

You regulate the angle by the position of the hook in relation to the CG of the plane. The closer to the CG, the more it will rotate. Typically the hook should be around 1/4" to 3/8" in front of the CG. The further forward the more stable the launch, but you get less height. Closer to the CG, the plane will rotate more and climb higher but will be harder to control. On my competition planes the hook is almost at the CG and the plane goes almost verticle.

Think of the spike at the end of the hi-start as the center of a circle and you are standing on the perimiter of the circle. You are trying to get the plane to Travel along the edge of the circle as it launches. That will give you the maximum height. If the high-start is strong enough, and if you have some breeze to help, your plane should pick up all the string and the rubber at the top of the launch and the rubber will still have tension. You will need to dip the nose a little then pull up in order to get the hi-start to release. Doing this will also give a little "zoom" where the plane shoots up beyond the height of the hi-start.

That would be ideal Don't expect that right away. Work toward that ideal.

Does this make sense?

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Old 09-08-2009, 08:31 AM
  #43  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Gentlemen,

These are excellent tips.

Ed, based on your and daRock's comments, I can now say with almost certainty that my tension is not high enough. I don't even come close to a vertical line release & "snap" when I lose the hook. Further, I never make it over the stake before I drop off.

Also, I do launch into the wind, and the towhook position is probably about a inch or so in front of the C.G.

So, first order of business is stopping by the fish & tackle dept at my local "big box".

Thanks again, gentlemen. I'll keep you posted (I'm now inclined to play hooky from work and test this out! lol).

Best... Roger Parrett
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Old 09-08-2009, 10:54 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

You don't need a fancy scale. A cheap fish scale is all you need.

When you move the hook back, do it in small increments.
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Old 09-12-2009, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

You really don't need anything but your feet to work out how far back to pull the hi-start.

Just walk back farther each launch until you get adequate line tension to do the job. Then add a couple of paces to however many that launch took. That number of paces will work all day. Now.........

Different wind speeds give different launch heights. On windy days you can actually add extension. And some really windy days you want to shorten your walk. You're going to get extra extension whether you want it or not. OK, most newbies don't fly those days, but someday..............
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:29 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

In the Eastern Soaring League's Novice Lounge you can find many articles that are helpful to new glider pilots.
http://forums.flyesl.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=14


In particular I did a follow-up on the subject of maximizing your height using a hi-start. Where this discussion was learning how to use a HS, the article at this link is about getting it as high as possible.
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=257

I hope you find it useful.
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Old 11-01-2009, 09:56 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Hi ae,
Tossing off a hi-start is a lot of fun but as we all know, can be hazardous! For sure, you have to have a strong plane designed to withstand the stress of the launch! A strong spar and a good center section dihedral brace is a must. Post mortumed several hi-start wing folds and they were all because of a poorly constructed center section dihedral brace!! Something else to think about, and I've seen several experienced pilots do this too is just let the plane go and be pulled out of your hand. "NO AIRSPEED" at the critical moment! This could give you what I call a "Firestone Launch!," where instead of the Hi-start hauling your plane to the heavens, you end up where the Hi-start,"Rubber meets the Road!!" I always hold the plane high and behind me a bit and "move" the plane forward a foot or so to get some air moving over the wing so the plane is on its' way to if not at flying speed at "let go."

Blue skyz,
Bill "skybill" Deli AMA-87838
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Old 11-02-2009, 06:19 AM
  #48  
aeajr
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

THE EFFECT OF CG ON HIGH-START LAUNCHING

Let me share an experinece I had yesterday to illustrate a point. And I am going to take you through my thought processes as I discovered and corrected the problem.

My main planes are a Supra and an AVA. I use these for contest flying in the Eastern Soaring League where I launch off winches. My Thermal Dancer has been relegated to a back-up plane position. I had not flown it in months, but I had it out yesterday. What I relate here was experienced on a winch, but it applies to HS launching as well. What we are giont to discuss is the impact of moving the CG.

Before I launched the plane, I did a hand throw. Seemed it needed a couple clicks of up to give me the glide I wanted. Having done that and completing a good range check, it was time to launch. Well I popped off 3 times in a row. Once I did get the plane in the air, it was flying very poorly. A dive test indicated the plane was nose heavy.

I have done several repairs to the nose and fuselage area of the Thermal Dancer over the time I have owned it. This has resulted in the plane becoming somewhat nose heavy. Since I have no removeable weight in the nose, I added 1/4 oz of lead to the tail over a year ago.

After some trial and error, I realized the tail weight was missing and added it back. I added 7 grams, about 1/4 oz, right in front of the verticle fin. This would be like taking about 3/4 to 1 oz of weight out of the nose. This sifted the CG back, giving my plane a much better balance. Several hand throws confirmed this and allowed me to adjust the elevator trim, removing several clicks of up trim. Now I was getting a nice smooth glide.

Now I was getting great launches and the plane was flying much better. WHY????

Because the plane was nose heavy, this CG was shifted forward, as compred to my normal CG. This effectively moves the hook position rearward in relation to the CG. I may have actually had the hook behind the CG. The further back the hook, relative to the CG, the more unstable the plane becomes on launch. Most people have the hook 3/8 to 1/8 inch in front of the CG. On my competition planes I have it right on the CG. But having it behind the CG makes for extremely difficult to control launches and a great tendency to pop-off.

By putting that weight on the tail, I effectively shifted the CG rearward. Now the hook was back in its proper position relative to the CG and the launches were as I expected them to be, straight, steep and high.

The second issue that comes up is that a nose heavy plane requires a lot of up elevator trim. That up trim on the elevator can become very effective at the speeds that a hi-start produces during the launch. This can lead to pop-offs. By shifting the CG back, I was able to remove some of that up trim, thus removing my tendancy to over rotate and pop-off.

I share these experiences because they apply equally to the hi-start and to the winch. The position of the hook, relative to the CG is critical to a smooth, high launch. If you change the CG of your plane, be aware of how this will change the relative position of the hook.

If you have a high tendency to pop-off on launch, consider that your plane might be nose heavy. Or, if you like the balance of your plane, consider setting up a launch mix that adds a few clicks of down elevator during the launch. This will prevent that over rotation during the critical first 50 feet of the launch. You can flip that mix off somewhere along the arch of the launch.
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:48 AM
  #49  
Salinas Hawk
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

Hi guys
    Ok, I got a basic Hiigh Start and a Spirit from Tower Hobbies,  but I can only get up about 100ft or so.  From there, I fly nicely, no crashes, but I can oinly keep it in the air for like a minute.  Is it lack of flying skills, or set up, or what.

I followed all the instructions by the letter.

My real question is: Is this typical of new pilots, or am I doing something very wrong?

I read all of this thread, and some of the attached articles, but I couldn't identify my problem.

Note:  I am a total newbie, and I have never successfully landed a 2-stroke trainer on my RealFlight, but after about 15 flights with my Spirit, that thing is almost impossible to crash.  I even tried a loop.  It was unsuccessful, but the Spirit didn't stall.  It just kind of fizzled and drifted into level flight.

Just the same, learning to fly is minumal cause I can only keep it in the air for a minute or so.

What am I missing?

Respectfully, Salinas Hawk
 
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:53 PM
  #50  
RogerParrett
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Default RE: Learning to use a hi-start

As a total newbie (glider) myself, I can relate. The guys advice here helped a lot.

First, pay attention to aeajr's comment regarding launch tension. While I followed my hi-start's instructions, my launches were woefully underperforming. Once I got a scale and used it to find the tension 4X of my model's weight, my launches got MUCH higher.

Second - as a power (glow) pilot - I was used to moving the sticks around much more than I should have. I was trying to turn, etc as soon as I got off the line - before I'd built up any speed - and quickly lost altitude. Sailplanes stall pretty easy don't they??

So I made a habit of not touching the sticks (or maybe just barely) until the plane had a chance to settle. then I just tried to follow it, and send it over to where I thought there was some lift.

Oh, and check the CG of your plane! With a GENTLE toss from about shoulder height, my plane (a two meter rudder/elevator only) will go about 120 - 150 straight and level in dead morning air. No stalling, diving, etc.

Hope this helps.

Best... Roger Parrett
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