RustyTumbles

Hi all,
I'm looking at upgrading my glider and I am not quite sure which way to go. I am realitively new to gliding and I feel that my current glider, a cirrus 2m ARF is letting me down when it come to finding lift. It is a great glider don't get me wrong, but it is rather heavy and it seems to need reasonalbe sized thermal to keep to up. Also it lacks the ablity to penetrate when flying in windy conditions, as i found out yesterday in a competition when it continually flew backwards no matter what. I tried lowering the nose and as soon as it gained airspeed it ballon back up and backwards. I would like to upgrade to something more suitable to competition gliding, without having to spend a fortune. Would a spirit elite be a good upgrade? As I wish to stay around the 2m span for transport reasons. Also does having ailerons and flaps aid in staying in a thermals by having more control? I also wish to stick with arf kits as i don't have alot of time to build kits.

lighthorse

My Feedback: (22)

A lot depends on what you really want to do two excellent
thermal duration planes are:
[link=http://www.rnrproducts.com/airframes/gliders/millennium.htm]The Millennium[/link] or
[link=http://www.sky-tools.com/composites.html]Sky-Tools Custom[/link]
There are many many others. Let me know exacly what you want to do I can try to aim you
in the right direction. I fly Point to Point, xc and Thermal Duration.
For xc and Piont to Point The best is:
[link=http://www.rnrproducts.com/airframes/gliders/xbxc.htm]The SB-XC[/link]
and yes the ailerons and flaps play a major role in thermal duration as you can set the
camber and reflex which will change its flying characteristic’s.
For just fun fly look at full house thermal planes 3m+.
[link=http://ycsoaring.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=50X7355706&rnd=4263267&rrc=N&cip=66.231.219.158&pg=linkA]York County Soaring / listings page [/link] shows a wide veriaty ov planes.

I just read you said low cost. That narrows it down. A good plane at a low cost? Try
[link=http://www.nesail-online.com/detail.php?productID=85]The Victory SE[/link]
Flys Great.

BMatthews

I have no doubt you would do better with a new model but it also sounds like you put the nose down to build speed and then let the stick come back to neutral. If that is the case then the nose up zoom is entirely natural and your fault for letting up on the forward stick pressure. In the future use the trim lever as your "speed control". I add a long 2-56 screw to my trim levers so I can find them quickly and feel where they are sitting at any given time.

The elevator trim is a major control in any full sized aircraft. It is sadly underutilized in our model flying.

RustyTumbles

I am more inclined to go towards thermal duration as we have several under 2m class events here in australia and i enjoy seeing how long I can stay up there!!! Flaps and airbrakes are not essential as i don't want to spend a fortune and I want to keep the aircraft light. However if a good kit has them I won't count it out. As for the cirrus it is flying better now. I took it out today after taking some weight out of the nose and moving the C of G back a touch. I went to far to start with and the elevator was way to touchy, so I put a little back in and it is flying a little better. But I still want an upgrade, I'll just use the cirrus to fine tune my skills to then.

lighthorse

My Feedback: (22)

This is a good artical on balancing a sail plane
[link=http://ycsoaring.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?pg=gordy1]Gordy’s Sailplane Balancing System[/link]
follow it and you won't be disapointed.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

I have the spirit elite. It is a good plane. Mine if from a kit. You go to a flat wing and you need to fly it a ton to get good with it. You won't be real successfull at first thermaling it. I see a lot of people buy expensive gliders and then get ticked when they won't stay up. Don't make that mistake.

When I was flying the NW circut, I flew a huge dollar 135 inch flat wing with flaps, ailerons elevator, rudder and crow. In 2 meter, I flew a gentle lady that I built on a friday night just to have something to fly in the 2 meter class. The flat wing was awsome, but I didn't always place with it. In over 6 years with the lady, I never placed less than third with it. I was always beating the expensive flat wings. I think it was more due to the fact that I knew every move that plane could do, and knew how to thermal it better than anything. Even in the wind it did well. Not saying that it is a better plane, I just knew it better.

What ever you get, fly the wings off it and get to know it.

There are a lot of good 2 meter and 100 inch birds. Have fun with it.

RustyTumbles

Still not sure if i'll go to a flat wing or stay with the polyhedral type wing. May just stay with rudder/elevator controls. The cirrus is correctly balance now and flys 100% better then before. I was out flying the more experienced guys at our field, and they were flying the higher performance 2m and 2.5m gliders on moderate lift day. (Guess it could have been luck) But I seem to be improving alot lately.

BMatthews

There is a lot of good flying to be done with a poly bird. Yes the aileron ships offer a new level of performance but if you are not that comfywith flying on instincts when you are out at the limits of your vision then the aileron models with their higher demands on the pilot skills will not do you any good. Far better to stay with a poly bird and learn more about the air and how to best utilize it.

This is not to say you won't be ready for a better performing ship in the near future. I'm suggesting that you would be wise to pick one that offers good penetration in the winds as well as being able to work the weak lift.

Soar_dude

Staying with 2meter gliders are you into building or are looking for a ARF. If you are looking to build then I would go with the Grand Illusion kitted by MMglidertech www.mmglidertech.com. This glider is very good the wing will take alot of winch I am able to full petal mine of a 12volt Rahm winch. saw Merrill launch the big cousin to this plane at visalia full petal with a big zoom at the end. it is also light weight too mine came in at about 30 oz. with standard size servos, but with the SD7084 airfoil it penatrates very well for me even in 20 MPH winds. if you want to go ARF then any of the Spirits are good choices
another good candidate for bulding would be the Dynaflite Daydream wing is not as strong but it will still take up nicely on a highstart and penatrates nicely in the wind.

Soar Dude

RustyTumbles

I really want to stay with an arf kit as I don't have alot of time to build the kits. I would like to put mini servo's in my next glider to keep weight down as my cirrus is 1200grams with the standard servo's. Will that make a big difference? or is it a waste of money? I use a bungee/Hi start most of the time to launch my planes so I need a plane that is light enough to get good launches of the bungee. Does making a glider lighter make it more sensitive to lift?

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

You said the plane is better balanced now, so I guess you needed a balance adjustment. That will certainly make a huge difference.

I have a GP Spirit 2M RES. Similar to the Cirrus in size and design. In fact I was down to the wire between them, but the Spirit was available RTF so I got the Spirit.

I have flown the Spirit in up to 20 MPH winds. While it is not a "great" penetrating plane in normal configurations, if you add some ballast, it does pretty well. I imagine that the Cirrus would be similar. Adding ballast used to be a problem, but I am addressing that.

I wrecked mine recently. As part of the rebuild I am rearranging mine to make space for ballast right over the CG, or a battery for a power pod. If you decide to stay with your plane, and if you have the servos over CG, which is common on the Spirit, this may be useful to consider.

In the photo you see the old fuse with the servo rails just in front of the CG. In the new plane the yellow thing is a battery for a power pod. I can take it out any time I am not using the power pod. I can put ballast in this spot, or use the battery for ballast. It sits right on the CG.

BMatthews

The most you'll save is about 30 to 35 gms in weight. Hardly a big deal. And if the servos are mounted ahead of the wing you'll just end up replacing much of what you save it with nose weight.

Making the EXTREMITIES lighter certainly makes a glider more sensitive to showing lift. Making the overall model lighter makes it go up a tiny bit faster because the sink rate is a tiny bit slower. But making a model lighter also makes it fly slower so you don't have as much penetration. And once you get used to flying a model that flies faster but still has a decent sink rate you will be totally spoiled.

It's always a wise step to fine tune what you have. The performance gains are often great and it's a good learning experience. But the time will come when you realize that the old shoe can't be taught any new tricks and it's time to move up to a better performing design and start the fine tuning all over at the new level of performance.

For the next model I would suggest you stay with something similar in size and weight to what you have so you can continue to use your present High Start. Going to a much larger model will mean buying a new launching setup. The new model will determine what equipment you will need.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

What size bungee do you have.

My hi-start launches 2 meter through 3 meter plus planes with no problems.

RustyTumbles

Thanks for the advice! I have decided to stay with the cirrus for the time being, however I'm also going to purchase a competition model that is very popular here in australia and has won several of our 2m comps. It is similar to the cirrus but it has a fibreglass fuse and is foam core wing sheeted in veener. It should weigh about 700-800grams when complete. It can be seen at http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~aiklos/first.htm. It looks like a good model. I have seen a few fly and they are very good in wind as well as being sensitive to lift. Tell me what you guys think.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

The correct link to the site is:
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~aiklos/first.htm

You can't put a period at the end of a web address or it adds it to the link and it doesn't work. I always put links on a line by themselves.

Here is what the site says:

FIRST

This is a 2-channel, polyhedral model suitable for thermal
or slope flying. Two piece wing with steel wing joiner.
- wing span:1960mm
- length: 1136mm
- weight: 700g
- wing profile: SD7037

Model can be converted to electric using 480 to 600 type
motors. Electric version nose is provided in the kit.

This model is particularly suitable for 2m class, and it has
already won several Australian events. This is a 2-channel, polyhedral model suitable for thermal
or slope flying. Two piece wing with steel wing joiner.
- wing span:1960mm
- length: 1136mm
- weight: 700g
- wing profile: SD7037

Model can be converted to electric using 480 to 600 type
motors. Electric version nose is provided in the kit.

This model is particularly suitable for 2m class, and it has
already won several Australian events.

It looks fine. I really have nothing with which to judge it. I would ask why you are not looking for a ship with spoilers to help with your spot landing, or is that not part of your competition there?

In the states, typical TD contests include precision landing. Glide path controls, like spoilers and flaps can be very helpful.

If you flying a RES competition, then you are permitted spoilers.

Just a thought.

RustyTumbles

Our main 2m class is just rud/elev. you do get some pretty hot landings happening. Good fun to watch! and can be tricky to do too.

FlyingPig-inactive

One of the sailplane I was seriously looking into a while ago was the Searcher 100m RES. I've heard only good things from this ship. At $350, it is almost twice compare with the Spirit Elite but it may be the cheapest contest ship. I've heard that you can order the full house wing too.....or you can go for the Helix full house with the same price. But I've never heard anything about the Helix. Home page is here. http://www.cafes.net/kummerow/

I didn't get the ship because I decided I don't want to go to any competition. So I'm heading toward something with more beauty than those stick-like TD ship.

AcintSpec

Seriously, you might want to consider the Searcher. I have the 2 meter version. At least to start with and is the first full house plane that I have. Only had it for a couple of weeks when I was in a contest and hooked a thermal that did not want to let go. It was a super plane in all that lift especially when it wasn't strong enough for the 3 meter planes to hang around in. Since then I have gotten the 100 inch full house wing for it and a spare fusealage and tail feathers. Spare parts just in case. It has done right by me and has taught me a lot about the full house aspect of flying. Mark has several different wing options for it including RES, 2, meter or 100 " , 2 or 3 piece with or w/o servos that can be practically custom made. I have seen some of the older versions of the Searcher when Mark had the obeechi covered wing. Very nice looking also. It will scream around the sky or simply float, depending on what you want it to do. A great plane to fly.

R/Gene

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

If you want to try something differnt with the Cirrus, you might consider putting an electric powerpod on it. I have some photos of my Spirit with the pod posted here:

http://www.torqueroll.com/forums/sho...=&threadid=764

I can put the pod on or take it off at will. Very flexible. Also, I can use the battery as ballast for strong wind conditions.