cheechukranch

I picked up one of these as a first sailplane (I have glow plane experience) and have had miserable luck trying to get it to fly. I'm launching on a pinnicle std. hi-start which sends it into a spinning nose dive every time. The tow hook is just forward of the C.G. and everything seems well aligned...I don't get it. Currently the fiberglass fuse is well cracked and both wings are split at the aileron. HELP!

Do any of you have experience or insight you can share? I feel this plane is doomed for the incinerator.

SoCal GliderGuider

Have you hand tossed this plane to see how it glides?

Ailerons should have differential. About three times more up than down. Should have the rudder coupled into the ailerons (switchable). About half throw for full aileron travel.

As this has a span of 80" it's possible to high start it. I would move the tow hook a bit more forward and not try to pull a lot of up elevator. Kind of let it speed off the end of the line. Don't try to go for height.

All in all you really should have an experianced sailplane flyer set it up and launch it a few times to get it trimed out.

Rick K

My Feedback: (6)

Need more info. Does the plane roll first, does it first assume a angle of attack of around 60+deg.? Sounds to me your'e getting a tip stall right off the bat . . . do you have any 'wash-out' in the tip pannels? Have you checked the lateral (wing tip to wing tip) balance? Are you sure the control surfaces are moving in the right directions and are netural to the wing when netural on the radio and there isn't any binding? Take SoCal guy's advice and hand toss off a small hill with a gentile throw, it should fly straight out for 50-100 feet without any corrections. I know you checked but check again for twists in the wing.
Rick K

cheechukranch

Thanks SoCal and Rick, I'll try your suggestions when repairs are complete. I'm not sure my radio will do all of the mixing you mention (Futaba 6exa)...currently i've mixed in flaperons and that's it. I live in Montana and hills are plentiful so the next flight will be a toss from a mellow slope, as I believe this glider is a sloper 1st and a thermal ship 2nd.

If I'm unsuccessful, have either of you any ideas for a good starter sailplane for someone with glow experience? Kit or ARF- no matter. I fly a telemaster and an EAA biplane regularly.

Thanks!

SoCal GliderGuider

Take the flaperon mix out. With a flat semi-symetrical wing that has only conventional ailerons you are asking for big trouble trying to fly it in flap mode.

You can have what is called crow. This is where both ailerons raise up at the same time. Also refered to as spoilerons. Even this is dangerous as the aileron movement has to be modified to use this correctly. The best mix you can add in is coupled ailerons and rudder with differential in the ailerons.

Acording to World Models PDF on this plane there is no provision for a tow hook. This is something you've added. A tricky thing to hi-start an 80" sloper. However I hi-start my 120" full house Mako.

evlwevl

My Feedback: (6)

If I remember correctly, that is a slope ship more so than a thermal ship. When I was living down in So Cal, a guy brought one up to Temple hill in Pomona having never flown it before and I had a chance to check it out. I remember it having high aspect wings to go along with the scale look. We did get CG right and coupled the rudder to the ailerons. after throwing it out, it did fly very nice when the wind was good. You have to keep the speed up or it will tip stall if I remember correctly as it is not a floater.

As for a starter sailplane, I'd recommend the either a Wanderer, the Gentle Lady(which Im partial to) or maybe a Spirit. You can get some of these ARF, but I'd go for the kit and build it to take a good launch if a winch is in your future.

cheechukranch

Thanks for the advice.... Repairs are complete, the hi-start will stay on the shelf and I'm off to find a nice slope. What does one look for in a good slope site other than steep with an updraft of wind?

SoCal GliderGuider

Look for hawks and crows. These usually know where the best slopes/cliffs are. The prevailing wind should hit the slope dead on but not more than 10 degress to one side. Finally a good place to land! Having a nice large flat area being the slope face is best. You will find some turbulance but if you keed the speed up you can cut through it. This is where the spoilerons help. I wouldn't try to fly your plane in less than 15 MPH winds.

If you find some slopes take a few pictures or give us the coordinates so we can look them up on the USGS maps.

cheechukranch

Thanks, SoCal. I've found a really nice spot not too far from town. I live in Livingston, MT and there are slopes everywhere. The family is going camping and the Beartooth Highway is part of that trip so the sailplane will find its way into the roof box! The slope soaring has got to be good. But back to the original problem...why won't it fly off a hi-start? However, now that I've figured the slope bit out-- there seems to be no need other than being able to fly my glow planes all in the same outing.

Thanks again for the help.

SoCal GliderGuider

Oh yes, you can't have any trees on the slope. These tear up the wind -- turbulate it. This kills the lift zone. Of course you don't want any trees in the landing area either (or big rocks).

Jeff Thompson

It's good to see someone write about this little-known sailplane, as I bought one on eBay & haven't flown it yet. I intended to slope it from the start--those high-aspect wings didn't look too functional for slope soaring on a high-start. I would agree with an earlier post that said the Bard was probably tip-stalling on the high-start; when I first started flying RC sailplanes I crashed two rudder/elevator sailplanes that way by pulling up too fast. The rudder didn't have enough authority to straighten the plane out, so they crashed while still on the high start. Of course, I taught myself the hard way, without help. Now I let gliders accellerate more before pulling up. The Bard would need to be going pretty fast on a high start though, I imagine, to fly.

Jeff

cheechukranch

So a STEEP windy slope is the key. This thing drops fast and needs room to recover. SoCal is right in that you need at least 15 mph wind in the face for the Bard to fly- preferably more. If you are anywhere close to a novice sailplane pilot, save the plane, forget the hi-start. This is a well made, nice looking plane that belongs on a slope...and in my opinion, not for the novice as the box suggests.

cassat10

My Feedback: (31)

Cheech,
I have the same plane here also still in the box though.
I just got a speed 600 motor to put in the front of it.
Hoping the motor is not too heavy for the plane .Seems it already has enough
weight. Let us know how the slope test works out for you there.
Dave

cheechukranch

Dave,

The 600 motor may be a good thing as I had to add a bit of weight to the nose for CG balance. Let me know how it flies...I may consider that conversion. Is the motor brushless? For weight/drag reasons, brushless, folding prop, and LiPo may be the way to go. My current view of this plane is that it looks a hell of a lot better than it flies...I'm waiting for someone to say otherwise and tell me what to do with it!

cassat10

My Feedback: (31)

Cheech,
I don't think there is anything wrong with the design. I bought mine with the intention of slope soaring on the windy days.I still believe this is where it would be best. What did you use for servos in those shallow wing bays there?
Dave

hangaround

We have aerotowed the Bard a couple of times, and although we have had no accidents, (yet) it really is a handfull as it needs a lot of airspeed to keep it from snapping. Also, it has been back on the ground before the tug, I think every time..

I'll just second up that this plane probably shines on steep slopes, with lots of wind.

Sam

cassat10

My Feedback: (31)

Just got out the new Speed 600 motor here and have the prop installed and set up.
Plan on using NiMh battery pack. Hope to have the nose cutoff today and a motor mount ready to install. I think I will have enough power.

cheechukranch

Dave,

Let me know how that works for you as I've still not figured this thing out. The window of weather to fly this plane as a sloper is small...I only have luck in strong winds and its a nerve wracking experience to boot. Not exactly the reasons I bought a glider!

Keep us posted- I'm up for anything.
Lewis

muscat1000

Gents,

This is my 1st time on this forum, thankyou for the helpful advice and information. I have a lot of experience with electric powered planes, but I am fairly new to gliders. I came here because I was having real problems with my new Bard. I also initially found it nose diving and violently dropping wings and made an important discovery whilst doing hand launches on a flat field - so you need to check your model - the elevator cable outer was not properly secured on the rear-most bulkhead inside the fuselage. So when up elevator was applied the cable outer slipped deeper down into the bottom of the rear fuselage (hence increasing the length of the cable run) and thus negated the up-elevator attempt, once the control was re-centred of course serious down elevator followed. Luckily I discovered this before damaging the model. You can tell by getting the model and holding the elevator firm whilst attempting to move the elevator -> the cable outer moves instead and when the stick is re-centred the elevator is no longer in its neutral position !

I fixed this by carefully lowering a stiff wire into the fuse and using it to let glue run down into the appropriate location. I still found the hand launches resulting in dropped wings even after a firm launch although I managed to get one good one in. Being frustrated (and brave) I went to the high start for "brute force" hoping that the smooth and constant tension would get the sucker airbourne. I had a one very hairy attempt with no wind present and experienced violent wing drops left, then right, then left again - it did look like a tip stall. Luckily it was fairly neutral when it "landed". A discovered a stuffed rudder servo, not sure it this was a cause or result of the unwanted antics.

Basically I agree with what has already been said - that this aicraft looks better than it flies. You can spend a lot of time analysing and so on, but at the end of the day when a glider flys well its obvious. I had a bad intro to gliders with a protech Malibu which also looked great but flew like a dog and I could never figger out what was wrong - me or the plane. So I then moved onto a Great Planes Spirit (ARF) and it flew so well and so easily that I realised in hindsight that the Malibu was just aerodynamically poor. I see the Bard in the same way - it looks fantastic but flies like a brick. I am tempted to remove all the expensive gear from it and hang it from the ceiling as a $200 ornament, better that than inevitably end up with a rubbish bin case - tommorrow its back to the Spirit for some trouble free gliding !

Hangaround..a question...what do you mean by snapping ? could you elaborate a little on how it was a handful ?

My final comment is that the suspected good slope soaring performance is conjecture because we all want to believe that we'll get something for the money we spent - based on the fact that the laws of physics don't change - only the environment, my guess is that Bard is a dog wherever you try to fly it.

Comments welcome please.

slopemeno

My Feedback: (2)

Some gliders respond better with a "Bridle" thean a conventional towhook. The depth of your fuse is probably causing the model to over-rotate on launch. The bridle prevents this by using two towhooks, and places them in the "armpit" location. You can easily make one and clip it to your existing high-start.

panzerd18

Whenever launching off a high-start and one wing dips, don't try and correct it with aileron. Apply opposite rudder to the wing drop to roll the wings level. I say this because if a wing is stalled its the worst thing to do by trying to roll the wings level with aileron as all you are doing is further stalling the already stalled wing.

muscat1000

Panzerd and slopemeno,

Thanks for your response. The glider had long departed the hi-start when the action started happening. Thanks for the advice anyway - yes don't use aileron, I know this one because sometimes I have to stall recover real aeroplanes!