Chopper01

I'm about to begin building the GP Spirit, any mods or advice that my be usefeul? I plan on taking the 2 piece rubberband wing route and even though it's my first glider I'll throw in the spoilers as well.

PS: Will my new HS-81s be enough (or too much) for this plane?

Thanks, Chopper

Ollie

The HS81's will be just fine.

Spoilers are a contraversial subject. From the point of view of the inexperienced flier, they have advantages and disadvantages. They will allow easier glide path control. This leads to more accurate landings but at the expense of developing the pilot skills that you may want to hone.

To me it's kind of like the question of whether a student that is learning addition, subtraction and multiplication should be given a pocket calculator to use. If the student gets the calculator he may never master the addition, subtraction and multiplication tables or if he does, it will take longer.

Learning to control the glide slope by varying the airspeed and managing the energy is a basic skill that comes first in my system of values.

greg-RCU

I have a flying buddy who has a 2M spirit. See pic. He built the wing as one piece and shimed the stab to 0 incidence rather than the slight angle. There was some opinions on the rec.models.rc.soaring NG that this would increase penetration. Sam's plane certainly penetrates better than my GL. He absolutly loves the plane and has considered a 100" version for his next plane.

Sam's Spirit does NOT have spoilers and doesn't need them. I've tried spoilers on an own design blue foam plane just to see what they would do. They were fun to try but a lot of work to construct. They absolutly have to fit as perfect as you can make them.

Basicaly they allowed me to land (and therefore launch :-) safely in conditions that would otherwise be unsafe. A combination of turbulence and a small field surrounded by tall trees. I don't fly that plane anymore and find I don't really enjoy flying in those conditions anyway. How the heck are you gonna work a tight thermal close the ground when your comming in high and hot and dumping energy?

Ollie's metaphor - The calculator is useful but can't replace thinking and experience when you suddenly find you need a different tool.

I think I'll try flaps!

Chopper01

Interesting, what your saying definetly makes sense Ollie. I'll leave out the spoilers, at least for now (there is an option to install them later) and keep it simple and develop the proper skills.

Thanks, Chopper

ALAN-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Chopper

I also agree with the crowd - spoilers may distract you from the real art of "white knuckle control". Learn to drive with the clutch first.

Are you planning on making the wing up as two parts? I can't remember how they join on the Spirit, but I just can't think of a single good reason ( other than a small car ) to do a wing in two pieces. More weight, more movement, more to carry. . .

Al

KevinSheen

Sorry but I have to disagree. I would suggest you definitely install the spoilers. If you choose not to use them for this or that reason fine but retrofitting later is a lot of work.

R. Carver

One more vote for no spoilers- to much of a weight penalty on a 2M ship to be worthwhile. She'll do fine without them.

David Schurr

I will have to agree with Ollie-----i even know Ollie---anyway i have been flying for 2 years and have never had spoilers in a plane. Most of the planes have been 2M but i just purchased a Sagitta 900 without spoilers and built a Big Bird 100". The Big Bird when built i made it so i could add spoilers with the cut outs in the wing and the tubes run plus the servo. i have yet to add the spoilers due to the fact that i'm not sure they will help me in flying and landing.

Whizwaz

My 2¢
I would suggest building the plane with the spoilers, tubes, and all, but just cover them over like Mr. Schurr suggested. They will then be there if you elect to use them in the future. Don't install the servo either.

It's much easier to build them initially and not use them, rather than install them once the model is complete.

In agreement with almost everyone, start out with the Spirit in 2-channel mode. All the spoilers will do is make learning more confusing. In addition, you'll be able to land even better by adding in the spoilers "after" you've learned without them. They really aren't necessary. If you may want to try them out at a later date, they will be there waiting.

MTT

My Feedback: (8)

Just another thought about spoilers :
I don't quite agree with ollie on the spoilers-calculator thing, since most full scale gliders have them, even the ones which are for training.
Although I agree that on a spirit or something similiar spoilers are not realley necessary, since this kind of plane tends to float, but at very low speed. However, on my 4m ALpina, I definitely need them, because it moves at a pretty good speed, and will eat a lot of room before touching down. The Alpina (from Multiplex) can be built without spoilers, but I definitely would miss them.

Michael

easy2fly

My Feedback: (3)

hey my fist post!

I am building a GL right now and i opted not to install them untill either i have to repair it or if i get bored with it in the future. Since this is my first sailplane i would rather have the basic setup while training. Ill just have to bring binoculars in case i speck out so that i can see where it is going.
i dont have any previus experience with spoilers on my others.

judaho

Regarding building the spoilers in the Spirit 2M - someone mentioned the weight penalty of the third servo.....I'm planning to use standard (hitec s-422) servos in my Spirit (with a 600 mAh battery pack) and am inclined to add the third servo just in case. Will using standard size servos (in lieu of mini) severely affect thermaling performance? Overall they will add maybe a couple ounces max compared to mini servos.

Ollie

You probably won't be able to notice any difference. There will be a slight increase in minimum sinking speed, a slight increase in stall speed, a slight increase in wind penetration and a slight increase in the size of a circle for a given angle of bank

nm5s

I've got GP Spirit too and built it with the spoilers, but haven't even tried them yet.
Check out this following webpage for some suggested mods:

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articl...spiritmods.htm

stulwilson

Last Saturday, I was out flying my 48" speed 480 electric dazi ( http://www.zipworld.com.au/~dazb/dAzi/dAzi.html ) in a large field that is owned by a friend of my fiance's family. The field is quite large for that small electric plane, but it is bordered by some backyards of houses. A man walked out of one of them and approached me as I flew. I was on the 3rd flight of my latest creation, and while seeing what she would do, crashed quite violently. I hadn't even seen him approach until after the crash, but he was quite worried that he had caused it. I assured him he hadn't, and was relieved to find that he wasn't there to run me off. But anyway, he had seen me flying, and was wondering if I wanted to buy 2 sailplanes he had. So, I did. I think 1 is a 2m spirit, and the other is a 2m riser. he gave me all his gear, tools, spare parts, 4 channel futaba, and everything. 6 rolls of monokote, sealing iron, the works. I can't imagine what it was worth. anyway, he asked for $150, and I didn't argue. He showed me that all was in good condition. He was a retired air force pilot, and said he just didn't have time for them anymore. Anyway. I am curious. The planes ( 1 controller for both planes) have a top mounted .049 gas engine. It is a little pod that is held on with rubberbands, (wing is 1 piece held on with rubberbands) to the top of the wing. It holds enough gas for about 3 minutes, and just goes full throttle to get you to altitude. Does anyone have any advice for using these? I have not yet flown either plane, as I have not had time. Any tips for the first timer with this type of plane would be very helpful. He showed me how to fill, and start the engine, and gave me some advice, mostly on how to do the ground work, but I have no idea on what to expect in the air. Everything appears to be in great shape, but I would like to know what to look out for, in case anything is awry. Normally I like to build my own models, but this was just too good of a deal. Also, I don't have the facilities to have built these ones myself yet, as I live in a small condo, and dont' have a good workbench. Building planes on the livingroom carpet is not the best.

Sorry for the long post. If all else fails, at least I have a spare if I crash the first one. Happy flying.

ALAN-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Hi there,

Pods are a discussion all their own - but I have one and have tried at and found it to work fairly well. The obvious benefit is that you can add/remove it as you please. On days without a high-start, it is a great way to get massive altitude before running out of fuel and starting your soaring segment.

I have had many flights looping and rolling my way uyp to altitide, only to run out of fuel and get a really good glide/soaring session in. Pods are great for learning - you can get a handle on powered flight with little risk - you're still using a basic solid easy to fly platform that moves slow and reacts not too quickly - easy for a beginner to get an intro to powered flight.

HOWEVER, the drag aspect of a pod is large - you have this big thing hanging out there that slows you down and creates a somewhat less efficient glide. Plus, there is the extra weight - plus the gooey greasy slime that the fuel deposits over your plane.
So you are weight several factors out to end up with something of a compromise. I would asy that everyone who has not tried one should. The investment is small and there is something to gain. I have had a blast flying in wind so strong that I had no business being out there - just maintaining a position over my head - until the fuel ran out then LOOK OUT! Got to keep that plane from flying miles down-wind. I'm not a purist but i have a blast - and wear hiking boots . . .

I would like to try the electric pod. Many of the benefits, less of the drawbacks. They make one but I just haven't got around to strapping one onto my 23 year old ( but going strong ) Gentle Lady ).

So a "trade-off" is the best description for power-pods.

Fire it up but be aware that it if your plane is trimmed - it will act quite different when under power than when gliding - but have a blast and enjoy!

As a sidenote - I put a 3 oz tank inside the fuse and ran a flex hose up to a modified .049 tank and got well over 15 minute powered flights - almost ripped my wings off doing some fantastic dive recoveries - however, the engine had a hard time pulling the fuel up that much of a vertical rise from the fuse to the pod!

Al

stulwilson

Thanks for the tip. So, I would be able to do loops and rolls with these planes? Like I say, I havent' flown them yet. I have flown the zagi, and ones like it. But sailplanes are all new to me. I didn't think any aerobatics would really be possible. I guess they would be big loops, and slow rolls, but ***, it is stiff fun right.

stulwilson

sorry, that was supposed to be it is still fun, not stiff.

ALAN-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

***. Stiff still kind of made sense - in an english sort of way!

stulwilson

yeah, not that much sense though. Can't wait to try these things out. My Fiance is in the hospital for the next 3 days, so no flying for a little while. I have the sailplanes, and a new electric I am building, and will be ready as soon as I devote about 1 more hour to it, and get some balsa. I stepped on my last piece, and broke it in half. I just have to put he elevons on it. So, I am dying to fly, but have to be patient. Figured I would try to find out what I was getting into with these things, while I was temporarily grounded.

ALAN-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

I think you'll rerally like them - you can do big loops and slow rolls - it's a different type of flying - lots of power but slow speeds. You can get some altitude and put it into some positions that really you normally wouldn't do - just to see what hapens. The dihedral and airfoil gives you really fast recoveries from almost any attitude. It's just a load of fun.

I like swooping down and doing fast 6 foot high passes over the grass, then pulling up.

But you will have to get used to the slime - take paper towels and spray cleaner with you - it's a little messy.

So enjoy, and eventually you can cut the nose of thebplane off and mount the .049 directly on the nose. Better performance, less drag and so much fun.

Or not . . .

bmwbob

My Feedback: (1)

One fellow at our field has a plane called a Butterfly. I believe Dynaflite kits it. I has a large poly wing, and he uses an O.S. 26 four stroke in the nose.
That thing flies so quietly and gently, it's amazing. He does loops 15 feet off the ground until he gets tired of it, then climbs the thing until it runs out of fuel ( 2 oz. tank) or gets too small to see, and soars it around.
Not my thing, but it's hard to ignore the grin on his face when he lands! :-)
To spoiler or not to spoiler: I haven't seen anyone referring to the OTHER use for spoilers: Getting yourself out of a trailer-lifting thermal condition safely.
A few years back , a buddy of mine and I used the big Hi-start to put his Graupner Cirrus, and my Riser 100 up. Within a few minutes, it became obvious that the whole SKY was going up!
Next, it became even MORE obvious that we were going to have MAJOR problems getting down!
He ended up bending the wing joiner rod in the Cirrus with his aerobatic maneuvers to escape lift. I just punched up the spoilers on the Riser 100 and sank out, no sweat.
So, like several folks suggested: Put the spoilers in, and you have the OPTION of using them. The "calculator" argument has a Luddite ring to it, and sort of sounds like advising me to turn off the traction control device ( dashboard switch) in my wife's Z3 so she can learn to be a better driver! :-)
NOTE TO SELF: Put triple layer Nomex suit on NOW!!! :-)
OR. do you REALLY want to see what happens to a Spirit wing when you exceed VNE trying to get your plane back? Hmmm????
Finally, on weight of a two meter ship being a critical factor:
My former boss, an EXCELLENT craftsman whom I reintroduced to R/C and I tried an experiment. Between us, we built two Spirit 2 meter ships. One was built bone-stock, with S148 servos. The other used Futaba 133 servos, and received the " Swiss Cheese" lightening treatment. Lacking a good scale, I can't say what the total weight difference was, but it was quite noticeable.
Both planes used the same covering material, had the C.G. the same, and were warp-free.
Care to guess which one flew circles around the other, REGARDLESS of how light/heavy the day was?
Yup. The stock plane . Makes me sort of wonder if the folks who design these thing know something I don't .....:-)
As alway, these opinions are simply the result of my own personal experience. Yours may differ, and that's OK too!
Bob Cowgill
Cocoa, Florida

mtnmnstr

My Feedback: (2)

It all depends on you building and flying skill. we build these things to stay up and not come down.......I fly real sailplanes and Power Planes....I put Spoilers on every thing i build...never had a problem.....Like them better then Flaps.....

Thats My $.02 worth.