sheptack

I have a Gentle Lady ARF that I am about ready to build, but many have said the wing is weak, and that I should make the wing joiner out of Aluminum if I plan to use a winch, which I do, because the Club I belong to has one. Others have said that the Spirit ARF has a stronger wing, and is a better plane. This is my first Glider, and both planes are similar to me, but I really want to build the one that is better, and will handle the winch better. Any thoughts on which one would be better, and why would be appreciated. Thank You.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

We winch GLs and Spirits all the time. Both are light weight planes that must be handled gently on the winch.

I have a Spirit. I kept the wing as two piece for easy storage and transport. I tape the wings together at the field with clear packing tape. Locks them together like a rock. I launch off a super strong hi-start at 13 pounds of pull with no problems at all. Typically you would launch these planes at about 6-8 pounds of pull, but they can take more. We have launched the GLs the same way. No problems on the hi-start.

Again, I launch my Spirit off the winch too. And the GLs go up the winch just fine. You just have to be easy on it. This is not a carbon fiber molded kevlar plane. It is a light weight built up wing woodie.

The experienced guys will know how to winch it carefully.

John C

Well, I guess I not one of the 'experienced guys'! [&:] My Spirit ARF winch launch bent the aluminum joiner sandwich so the wings were tilted up 15 degrees or so on each side. It flew OK though, so I got it down in one piece . My joiner now has ply in lieu of balsa in the sandwich. I've not been back on the winch with it to see what else I can break .

There is no way I would put a Gentle Lady on a winch, although I have high started them many times successfully.

John C

sheptack

Thanks for the reply. Would you see any reason to give up on the GL, and get a Spirit? Or are they just about the same overall? Thanks

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

John C,

Was your Spirit wing epoxied together?

If you have kept the wings separate, as I have, try the tape approach. Once piece of 2" clear packing tape starting at the back of the wing on the top, going all the way around the bottom. You can even bring it around to lap over the back of the top. I have had very good luck with it. I think all the 2 piece wing spirits, GLs and the like at our field now do this. Works great!

I have crashed the plane a couple of times over the hundreds of flights. I destroyed the fuse on one hard landing. I broke both wings once, and had to rebuild one from scratch, but the joiner was never seriously damaged. I am still using the original joiner from my original Spirit Select RTF.

sheptack

Ok, so I guess I need some more replies. Can you successfully use a GL on a winch, as long as you go at it a little at a time, and perhaps a bit slower that other planes? Bottom line, is it common to winch launch a GL? and can it take it if done correctly? Thanks.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

I think they are both wonderful planes. I selected the Spirit for two reasons:

1) It was available RTF so I did not have to build anything and the radio was completely installed and included with the planes. $150, I think, at tower hobbies. Spirit Select RTF. I wanted to get into the air quickly and knew nothing about building or about radios at the time. Been very happy with it.

2) It has spoilers. I wanted to learn how to precision land with spoilers. We have club contests each month and two major events each year.

However I have only heard good things about the GL. Some say if flies better than the Spirit. I have never flown a GL personally but there are several GL ARFs at our club and the pilots seem to be very happy with them.

Up to you!

If you are concerned about the winch, don't use it. Pick up a hi-start and launch off that. No problem. Lots of people prefer to keep these lighter planes off the winch. They are easier to break than the glass and carbon fiber ships.

If you get a full size hi-start, 100 feet of rubber and 350-400 feet of line, you should get excellent launches and catch lots of thermals.

The main advantage of the winch is the power, which you really can't take advantage of with a GL, and control. You can stop a winch launch, you can't stop a hi-start. Once you let go, it is going.

However I have seen many planes, wood, fiberglass, kevlar, molded, etc., broken on winches. I have never seen one broken on a hi-start launch.

You might find this article helpful.

How to use a Hi-Start
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=52

kamakasi

My Feedback: (3)

You can winch launch either plane as long as you do the tap, tap, tap thing with the winch. As aeajr can attest to even with a gentle launch a quick breeze can do the wings in.

IMHO I'd go with the Spirit as it seems to be a stronger plane + the spoilers are a real benefit.

smoking joe

I have launched both on a winch. The Spirit exploded with a gust of wind. You can successfully launch with a winch with the tap tap method ever so gently. My Aspire takes a little more winch than the GL or the late Spirit did. Joe

Samson4721

i cant seem to break my GL for some reason *knock on wood* i had a pretty wicked collision with a basket ball hoop before i learned about ballast( in last post) it didnt do much damage. i found it to be quite durable. i dunno if its the same with the spirit but when the GL hits with enough force the rubber bands release the wing but this could just be my plane not sure. it saved me a few times.

evlwevl

My Feedback: (6)

Cap your spar off with carbon fiber tape and sheet the entire Top LE rather than just the center section and you'd be suprised what kind of launch it can take. The guys at my club have been amazed at the little zooms I used to get on my GL when I was flying it. Some winch lines are stronger than other but I've never had a problem with mine and only tapped on occasion when the wind was blowing.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

That is an interesting approach because you said use tape. Tape is soft and flexible. I would not have expected it to add much compressive strength to the spar, only tensile strength. What kind of tape did you use, or was it actually more like a thin sheet material? Do you know the thickenss?

Sheptack has an ARF, so this would require removing the covering and recovering the wing.

If I try this on my next plane, I want make sure I use the right stuff.

marwen1

My Feedback: (6)

I had the GL back when it was a straight kit. I never hadto worry out the join of the two hals because I kept the wing as ONE WHOLE UNIT. Shucks, it's only 2 meters. Keep another ting in mind. You may not always be flying from your present club site. I built a pod and put a small .049 engine of the top of it. The fuel was only good for about 2 minutes. I guess what I'm getting at is this: PLAN AHEAD! What happens if your club whinch is "not available" for what ever reason.

DEPEND ON YOURSELF!

marwen

Silverhawk

My Feedback: (1)

BEWARE THE PLYWOOD JOINER!!!

My Spirit folded on a HS launch with the ply joiner. I went to solid aluminum (6061) and it held up well. Still have the wings but the fuse is long gone.

jbloom

Marwen... How did you build the pod? I have a Sig Riser that I want to mount a .049 engine to via a removable pod. I have some thoughts, but nothing for sure. Do you have pics?

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Tower hobbies has a $12 POD KIT that is made for the GP Spirit 2M. Should fit hte sig.

If you want, they have an electric version that has the motor, fuse and a microswitch for about $35

evlwevl

My Feedback: (6)

The tape Im talking about is from Dave Brown Products. I use it on all my ships now. It really doesnt look like tape as much as it looks like strands of hair. But I epoxy it down on both sides of the spar and smooth it over while "wet" and both sides done like this will provide both compression and expansion resistance

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks! I have some of that. I knew it would provide tension assistance but did not believe it would help with compression. At least not enough to matter.

I have some dave brown carbon ribbon that is in a very lose roll, but it is very rigid, maybe 1/32 thick. Made for spars. I would put it on top spar.

Thanks for clarification.

Epoxy Cup

EvlWeavle is right on track. I have a GL and have hi-started it as well as winched it up, with no problems. I did see the wings fold on a GL once. Not mine[:-]. As evlweavle pointed out, I also use the Dave Brown carbon fibre, both the hair strands and the flat tape. Love the stuff use it on most everything that I think needs extra strengh.
I added the carbon fibre to the bottom spar of my GL running some extra all the way past the polyhydral joints and almost to the wing tips. Carbon adds very little in weight but increases the strengh of the wing considerably[8D].
I definatly would do something, whatever you choose to make the GL wing a little stronger. It's a great glider and if your gentle with the lady it would probably be ok, but if your like me and find yourself staying on the winch a little more trying for a little more elevation, then use the carbon.
By the way I have the Spirit two meter ARF also but have not flown it. Kind of wanted to try flaps and ailerons, as well as crow mix. From what I have read they are very good at many things the GL wont do, but they say the GL is still the thermal king. I will find out. Both are great gliders.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Sounds like you have the Spirit Elite if you have flaps and ailerons.

kwmtrubrit

I have questions about the CF. I have both, the "hair strands" which to me looks like unravelling string, and the tape which is about 3/8in wide and probably the thickness of two sheets of paper and long, long. I didn't use either one on my Riser 100 and here's why. The "hair" seems like I wouldn't get an even coverage (because it's like hair) unless you lay it strand by strand. The tape isn't totally flat. It's like a sheet of paper that gets wavy after it gets wet and dries. I didn't feel like I would get a good bond to the spar. If someone would be kind enough to tell me the modus operandi, I will use the hell out of the stuff.

FLY SAFE

Keith

JimTrainor

Sig make a simple power pod kit:

http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmar...H660_2ehtml_01

Tower don't stock it.

I have a riser with a Sig pod, and a Norvel 0.061 runn 10% nitro fuel. It works well once you get used to tuning the engine. The pod and engine weight just 5 oz. My riser is 30 oz without the pod. (Light wieght radio gear, and some equipment redistribution could bring that down to about 26 oz.)

JimTrainor

I put some carbon fibre cap strip (tape) on my Riser for good measure (and beefed up the joiner, and extended the shear webs a few bays).

I just epoxy it on. I used 30 minute epoxy and run my finger over it a few times as it sets to ensure a good bond.

This place sells carbon fibre of various shapes and sizes: http://www.cstsales.com.

Carbon is not as strong in compression so a thicker cap strip, or a double layer of what ever you put on the bottom, is required on top if are trying to be really pendantic about this.

CSTSales have carbon shear webs as well.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

The key with reinforcing wing spars according to all I have read and seen done is that wood is much stronger in tension than compression. So it is more important to reinforce the top of the spar than the bottom. Most breaks occur from the top of the spar failing in compression.

I am no expert, but if you wanted to reinforce a GL, Spirit, Riser, etc, I would use this on the top of the spar going out at least three bays and probably to the dihedral joint. No need going to the end of hte wing. The weight penalty is small. You will need to modify the spar to accomodate the thickness.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXB965&P=ML
This is to handle the compression loads in the center section of the wing. I would use medium CA or a thin layer of 12 minute epoxy to bond this to the spar. Use some kind of clamp or a pile of magazines to be sure it is in full contact all the way across. Any gaps will compormise the strength.

This is a 5.5' Carbon Fibre Strip from Dave Brown Products.

FEATURES: Used to strengthen radio controlled planes, model rockets, sail-
planes, etc.
Any balsa, foam or wooden structure may be laminated to increase
their strength up to 300%.
Typically applied to opposite sides of wing spars, ribs, fuselages,
and other structured members.
Bonds well with epoxy resin or CA glue.



The bottom is not as important, but you could do the same on the bottom, or you could use a layer or two of this to save weight and the need to modify the bottom of the spar:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXB964&P=7
This is a 12' Strip of Carbon Fibre Tape from Dave Brown Products.

FEATURES: Used to strengthen radio controlled planes, model rockets, sail-
planes, etc.
Any balsa, foam or wooden structure may be laminated to increase
their strength up to 300%.
Typically applied to opposite sides of wing spars, ribs, fuselages,
and other structured members.
Bonds well with epoxy resin or CA glue.


Again, this is only needed in the center section. This is much thinner than the stip above, so you can probably apply it directly to the bottom of the spar with little nor no concern about the thickness. Thin CA works great on this stuff. Make sure it is stretched flat and in full contact. Soak it with thin CA or lay it in a bed of epoxy, cover it with wax paper and use a credit card to squeeze out the excess epoxy. Extra epoxy adds little strength and weighs a lot, relatively speaking.

I imagine you could use fiberglass or kevlar as well, but carbon seems to be the material of choice for this application.


Others with more extensive experience than I can expand on these recommendations. If we are lucky, Ollie will jump in here. He is the man!

Hans Dahl Christensen

Hi - Hi .

You might also consider a " RISER " - from SIG - or maybe any other 80 inch glider which has been made in big numbers !

They are not all the same - but in the same league - if you catsh my measning.

BUT : You are in for great fun and joy in the wonderfull world of sailplaneflying - so to say that you always can find ways to be a better pilot - and maybe with more sofisticated equipement and models !!

And look into : www.gliders.dk
www.f3j.dk
www.iggnorge.com
www.igg-sverige.se


Have fun and enjoy !!

KR

hld - OY-9901