Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
04-21-2005, 06:47 PM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Roger. I used Google to find the Bosch starter rebuilt site and then went through the cars that I thought would have it. Then I went to the salvage car site and looked to see if I could find any that would match., The difficulty to the whole thing is that if you ask for a motor for any old car you normally from the dealer will be given a new planetary drive unit. But you want a 1.1kw motor or less. 1.1kkw is slightly over the required amount but most starter motors nowadays are 1.4 kw and need a lot more. I used a motor from I think a 2.2l Mazda 2.2 pickup at 1kv. You usually use the Chev unit that is I think 1.9kv.
Since I have purchased one of your gas units and have seen many of the pictures you have poasted you will have no problems with replacing the front end. Typically there are two bearings a plain one at the brush end and a roller at the front nose end.
I removed the gear from the front purchased a 12mm bearing for the 12mm shaft. I put a support under the bearing to hold it where I wanted and cast in a filled epoxy holder. I did this by putting a carefully cut piece of cardboard under the bearing and filled in the space. I then cut the nose off and I had the motor I wanted. Hopefully I have properly uploaded a picture to go with this to shwo the results.
RIck
Since I have purchased one of your gas units and have seen many of the pictures you have poasted you will have no problems with replacing the front end. Typically there are two bearings a plain one at the brush end and a roller at the front nose end.
I removed the gear from the front purchased a 12mm bearing for the 12mm shaft. I put a support under the bearing to hold it where I wanted and cast in a filled epoxy holder. I did this by putting a carefully cut piece of cardboard under the bearing and filled in the space. I then cut the nose off and I had the motor I wanted. Hopefully I have properly uploaded a picture to go with this to shwo the results.
RIck
04-21-2005, 07:04 PM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
http://www.boschusa.com/AutoParts/Al...anAlternators/
Audi models 5cyl including Quattro from 79-83 has 1.1kv
Rick
Audi models 5cyl including Quattro from 79-83 has 1.1kv
Rick
04-21-2005, 08:53 PM
#28
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Cool!
Thats what I'm talking about! Good job!
It doesn't matter what it looks like as long as it works! The enginuity folks come up with amazes me still. I'm a big believer in the "KISS" (Keep it simple, stupid...) principal and tried to make the Discus winch adhere to this as well. I just kept thinking of putting more and more goodies on the winch I decided to make it look good as well but this is not the first winch I have ever built. I built and all wood one about 10 years ago in Sacramento when I lived down there and it worked OK but boy was it UGLY! I learned all the electrical workings by doing this so it was a learning experience. Some folks were quick to criticize my work but lets see them try to build one from scratch!
On the motor side of the discussion, I was thinking of making a winch with one of the "Spec Legal" Bosch motors and use a bit different drum design. Lots of ideas on this one. I spoke with a local motor rebuilder and he is an Expert on Bosch and Ford starters (as well as others) and gave me alot of tips on the Ford motor. For example, he sold me a pair of brushes that are double the life (at least) of the stock brushes for the Ford starter. They are SLIGHTLY bigger so I need to tweek the brush holders but this should be easy. They were made for racing mods running at 24 Volts.
If you've built a winch, please post pictures and show everyone your handywork!
You too Roger, I know you've been building these for awhile now.
Besides, I bought your retreiver Roger. I havn't got it out yet but I want to get it working. Its a VERY unique way of retreiving the line and I should be able to get it working as soon as I get time! Do you want me to post pictures of it or do you still have some?
L8tr
Tony
Thats what I'm talking about! Good job!
It doesn't matter what it looks like as long as it works! The enginuity folks come up with amazes me still. I'm a big believer in the "KISS" (Keep it simple, stupid...) principal and tried to make the Discus winch adhere to this as well. I just kept thinking of putting more and more goodies on the winch I decided to make it look good as well but this is not the first winch I have ever built. I built and all wood one about 10 years ago in Sacramento when I lived down there and it worked OK but boy was it UGLY! I learned all the electrical workings by doing this so it was a learning experience. Some folks were quick to criticize my work but lets see them try to build one from scratch!
On the motor side of the discussion, I was thinking of making a winch with one of the "Spec Legal" Bosch motors and use a bit different drum design. Lots of ideas on this one. I spoke with a local motor rebuilder and he is an Expert on Bosch and Ford starters (as well as others) and gave me alot of tips on the Ford motor. For example, he sold me a pair of brushes that are double the life (at least) of the stock brushes for the Ford starter. They are SLIGHTLY bigger so I need to tweek the brush holders but this should be easy. They were made for racing mods running at 24 Volts.
If you've built a winch, please post pictures and show everyone your handywork!
You too Roger, I know you've been building these for awhile now.
Besides, I bought your retreiver Roger. I havn't got it out yet but I want to get it working. Its a VERY unique way of retreiving the line and I should be able to get it working as soon as I get time! Do you want me to post pictures of it or do you still have some?
L8tr
Tony
04-21-2005, 09:10 PM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Tony
Questions?
Next time you see your rebuilder I need a couple of questions answered. Are all Bosch motors stamped Bosch? Can he tell you which ones are 1.1kw in his pile?
Thankyou.
Rick
Questions?
Next time you see your rebuilder I need a couple of questions answered. Are all Bosch motors stamped Bosch? Can he tell you which ones are 1.1kw in his pile?
Thankyou.
Rick
04-22-2005, 03:40 AM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Thanks for the info on the Bosch starter. The mods required to turn it into a winch motor are about the same as for a Chevy motor. Is it a permanent magnet motor?
Too bad it doesn't have an exposed shaft like the old Fords. Lucas used to make a "longshaft" starter for the MG and Austin-Healy cars from the '60s that had an exposed shaft. They would have been about the right power, too. There's one on eBay now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=80735
Your winches remind me of some of my early ones made from anything I could find that looked like it might work. The people I was flying with were using a longshaft motor with a heavy drum and no brake. We spent about as much time unsnarling line as we did flying. The inexperienced pilots (like me) just couldn't get the hang of flying and putting their foot in just the right place to stop the drum at the same time.
I bought a lathe and a small milling machine just so I could build winches. I already had a drill press, bandsaw, and a welding outfit, so I was pretty much able to do build anything I could dream up. Maybe that's a bad thing, since some of my winches have gotten pretty complex with solenoid-operated brakes and electric clutches.
The one thing I have always tried to do is make the winch so the pilot could just walk away after he was done launching. The winch had to stop without snarling the line, and there was nothing that had to be done before retrieveing the line.
The simplest fully automatic winches I built used Bosch permanent magnet starters from Evinrude outboard engines. I figured out a simple and cheap way to short out the armature to make a very effective brake, which released when the drum was almost stopped. Those were nice--compact, powerful, and lightweight.
Here's some photos of a sport winch from 2003, the newest clutch winch, and the ground-based retriever. Sorry I don't have anything from the first winches to show.
Roger
Too bad it doesn't have an exposed shaft like the old Fords. Lucas used to make a "longshaft" starter for the MG and Austin-Healy cars from the '60s that had an exposed shaft. They would have been about the right power, too. There's one on eBay now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=80735
Your winches remind me of some of my early ones made from anything I could find that looked like it might work. The people I was flying with were using a longshaft motor with a heavy drum and no brake. We spent about as much time unsnarling line as we did flying. The inexperienced pilots (like me) just couldn't get the hang of flying and putting their foot in just the right place to stop the drum at the same time.
I bought a lathe and a small milling machine just so I could build winches. I already had a drill press, bandsaw, and a welding outfit, so I was pretty much able to do build anything I could dream up. Maybe that's a bad thing, since some of my winches have gotten pretty complex with solenoid-operated brakes and electric clutches.
The one thing I have always tried to do is make the winch so the pilot could just walk away after he was done launching. The winch had to stop without snarling the line, and there was nothing that had to be done before retrieveing the line.
The simplest fully automatic winches I built used Bosch permanent magnet starters from Evinrude outboard engines. I figured out a simple and cheap way to short out the armature to make a very effective brake, which released when the drum was almost stopped. Those were nice--compact, powerful, and lightweight.
Here's some photos of a sport winch from 2003, the newest clutch winch, and the ground-based retriever. Sorry I don't have anything from the first winches to show.
Roger
04-22-2005, 06:45 AM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Post#26
There are two winches in the second picture. The unit with the mono on it is based on the Lucas 35 motor. The motor is around .7 or .8kw. It does have a long shaft but it does much better with driving the spool with the spool on two separate bearings. The aim is to keep the torque high and accelarate from about 25 or 30 to over a hundred in the zoom. If you cannot keep the winch stalled you should go to clams or cheeks to bring up the diameter for that day.
Lucas had an M45 which is near the right power but much heavier and then a diesel starting unit with a 50 number or something on it. The larger Lucas was for starting diesel equipment and was way beyond the Ford longshaft. The M45 Lucas was very scarce being primarily used on farm tractors and other equipment rather than cars. The Lucas starts are old design as the Ford and are very heavy for their output.
The FAI stiputlation is for a "common" worldwide motor with direct drive, no magnets so wired field, with the only thing changed from stock being the adaptation to the end and the addition of ball bearings with a max power represented by a minimumn resistance of battery and motor of 23 milliohm. In addition the switch could only be an "on off".
It has been interesting to read of the various changes as they came down through the years. I restarted in model planes in 1980. Finally we defined the measuring of the power and now everyone is happy. The crtical thing now is to get and keep the lightest line on the drum that you can use now without breaking. If I break it I must quickly land and launch on the other winch which is slightly stronger.
Again the one way bearing is not the brake that is often thought. It is not an AMA brake. It was added only for the rules. It prevented kiting on the line and pulling it back out. It was assumed to that point that you would have no brake and you would be in control and tapping. Rat's nests are primarily caused by having line on the drum before you launch then losing it on the way up. A good F3B launch will not cause rat's nests. The underpowered winch runs full out with one step on the switch till the plane is launched and the flag or chute is almost all the way to the ground. This last is required to keep your line from fouling other lines. Winches are spaced about three feet or maybe two at some contests.
An F3B winch is not a shared "club" winch. It is primarily a part of a system which includes your present planes. An F3B winch until you push it too hard at the top because of its limited power will safely launch most beginner planes.
Rick
Richard Hallett Pittsfield ME
There are two winches in the second picture. The unit with the mono on it is based on the Lucas 35 motor. The motor is around .7 or .8kw. It does have a long shaft but it does much better with driving the spool with the spool on two separate bearings. The aim is to keep the torque high and accelarate from about 25 or 30 to over a hundred in the zoom. If you cannot keep the winch stalled you should go to clams or cheeks to bring up the diameter for that day.
Lucas had an M45 which is near the right power but much heavier and then a diesel starting unit with a 50 number or something on it. The larger Lucas was for starting diesel equipment and was way beyond the Ford longshaft. The M45 Lucas was very scarce being primarily used on farm tractors and other equipment rather than cars. The Lucas starts are old design as the Ford and are very heavy for their output.
The FAI stiputlation is for a "common" worldwide motor with direct drive, no magnets so wired field, with the only thing changed from stock being the adaptation to the end and the addition of ball bearings with a max power represented by a minimumn resistance of battery and motor of 23 milliohm. In addition the switch could only be an "on off".
It has been interesting to read of the various changes as they came down through the years. I restarted in model planes in 1980. Finally we defined the measuring of the power and now everyone is happy. The crtical thing now is to get and keep the lightest line on the drum that you can use now without breaking. If I break it I must quickly land and launch on the other winch which is slightly stronger.
Again the one way bearing is not the brake that is often thought. It is not an AMA brake. It was added only for the rules. It prevented kiting on the line and pulling it back out. It was assumed to that point that you would have no brake and you would be in control and tapping. Rat's nests are primarily caused by having line on the drum before you launch then losing it on the way up. A good F3B launch will not cause rat's nests. The underpowered winch runs full out with one step on the switch till the plane is launched and the flag or chute is almost all the way to the ground. This last is required to keep your line from fouling other lines. Winches are spaced about three feet or maybe two at some contests.
An F3B winch is not a shared "club" winch. It is primarily a part of a system which includes your present planes. An F3B winch until you push it too hard at the top because of its limited power will safely launch most beginner planes.
Rick
Richard Hallett Pittsfield ME
04-22-2005, 10:04 AM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
A BMW 318, 320, or 325 from '74 to '85 also uses a Bosch 1.1kw starter. That might be easier to find than one for an Audi. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33573
I made a resistor for reducing the power of my winch using a short length of small wire submerged in a bottle of water. It cost about a dollar for all the stuff. It's easy to adjust by cutting the wire shorter. You just have to remember to keep the water up over ALL the wire and the connectors. A wide-mouth jar (like Gatorade) would be easier to get the wire in than the one in the photo.
You can get the one-way bearing from McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/ See page 1024 for steel needle roller clutch bearings. The 3/4" size is less than $20. They sell to individuals, and the website order system is pretty easy to use.
Roger
I made a resistor for reducing the power of my winch using a short length of small wire submerged in a bottle of water. It cost about a dollar for all the stuff. It's easy to adjust by cutting the wire shorter. You just have to remember to keep the water up over ALL the wire and the connectors. A wide-mouth jar (like Gatorade) would be easier to get the wire in than the one in the photo.
You can get the one-way bearing from McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/ See page 1024 for steel needle roller clutch bearings. The 3/4" size is less than $20. They sell to individuals, and the website order system is pretty easy to use.
Roger
04-22-2005, 04:35 PM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
The other url for buying
www.car-parts.com
Thankyou for the extra possibilities Roger for car sources.
Rick
Richard Hallett Pittsfield ME
www.car-parts.com
Thankyou for the extra possibilities Roger for car sources.
Rick
Richard Hallett Pittsfield ME
04-22-2005, 08:06 PM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Mono behavior,
If all goes well and you have straight sides and square corners the mono should go perfectly onto the spool from side to side. Most people are amazed when they see it for the first time. If you have a knot in the middle of the drum it is not uncommon for it to reverse direction perfectly at the knot. Braided piles up where ever it is. At one contest we almost all used the same winch. Because of this behavior and the experience of the pilots there were no rat's nests all day. The launches were higher on average than you see off 300m of braided with retriever. Several pilots were astonished to go to a contest the next day and witness many line breaks with the more powerful Ford club winch but the launches were not as high. It never seems to add up at first. But what happens is the weaker winch builds energy in the mono on the way up then at the top you change that energy into speed and go another hundred feet vertical. But you have to walk to retrieve the line.
Because of the smooth action from side to side it is common to make the winch bobbin very wide to retain the high tension. Again if you cannot retain stalling tension all the way up the line it is common to increase the diameter to enable you to do so. Now you will have lost some tension ability but have gained in speed and you are getting the highest performance from your combination. Common starting diameter is 45 mm with clam shells increasing it to 55-60mm.
Rick
Richard Hallett Pittsfield ME
If all goes well and you have straight sides and square corners the mono should go perfectly onto the spool from side to side. Most people are amazed when they see it for the first time. If you have a knot in the middle of the drum it is not uncommon for it to reverse direction perfectly at the knot. Braided piles up where ever it is. At one contest we almost all used the same winch. Because of this behavior and the experience of the pilots there were no rat's nests all day. The launches were higher on average than you see off 300m of braided with retriever. Several pilots were astonished to go to a contest the next day and witness many line breaks with the more powerful Ford club winch but the launches were not as high. It never seems to add up at first. But what happens is the weaker winch builds energy in the mono on the way up then at the top you change that energy into speed and go another hundred feet vertical. But you have to walk to retrieve the line.
Because of the smooth action from side to side it is common to make the winch bobbin very wide to retain the high tension. Again if you cannot retain stalling tension all the way up the line it is common to increase the diameter to enable you to do so. Now you will have lost some tension ability but have gained in speed and you are getting the highest performance from your combination. Common starting diameter is 45 mm with clam shells increasing it to 55-60mm.
Rick
Richard Hallett Pittsfield ME
04-23-2005, 11:58 AM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
The first line I used was braided 200# test and it seemed to work OK and it didn't pile up at either end (that I noticed anyway) although you have to have the winch drum aligned very close to perpendicular to the incoming line otherwise it will pile up at either end of the drum. To help with this I have slots cut in the legs that allow the angle of the winch to be "fine tuned" for the incoming line angle. The legs are tightened down with the "L" handles on either end of the frame.
The first time I used Monofilament I got a free spool of 150# test from a neighbor and threw it on at the field but I quickly found out that it was old stuff and got nothing but breakages. Tossed the whole spool in the dumpster. Frustrating beyond belief. Use ONLY new MONO line!
I replaced that with 200# test Mono (brand new this time!) and tied it off on the outside of the drum cheek so as not to have the knot interfere with the spooling from end to end. No problems with this line at all.
Under bad conditions, such as a flying field with dirt and rocks, the line will not last very long at all.
I also seem to recall seeing some guys using spools of mono line soaked in what looked like water then placing the whole thing on the winch for use. I guess it was to get more elasticity from the line or something. Anyone heard of this?
Spectra is a very new line to the fishing market and 200# test is extremely small diameter and very abrasion resistant. The only drawback is that it has "almost zero stretch" making it non-energy retentive.
Above, someone mentioned the one way bearings. There are alot of sizes available for these but be careful of using exposed roller bearings directly on the motor shaft if the shaft is not hardened (some are but be careful). They will wear right into the motor shaft eventually due to the difference in hardness. The one way bearing I used has inner and outer races with an internal ball bearing for load support. I guess that's why they are so @#$%*&^! expensive !
Batteries are charged and the sun is out! Gotta go!!!
Tony
The first time I used Monofilament I got a free spool of 150# test from a neighbor and threw it on at the field but I quickly found out that it was old stuff and got nothing but breakages. Tossed the whole spool in the dumpster. Frustrating beyond belief. Use ONLY new MONO line!
I replaced that with 200# test Mono (brand new this time!) and tied it off on the outside of the drum cheek so as not to have the knot interfere with the spooling from end to end. No problems with this line at all.
Under bad conditions, such as a flying field with dirt and rocks, the line will not last very long at all.
I also seem to recall seeing some guys using spools of mono line soaked in what looked like water then placing the whole thing on the winch for use. I guess it was to get more elasticity from the line or something. Anyone heard of this?
Spectra is a very new line to the fishing market and 200# test is extremely small diameter and very abrasion resistant. The only drawback is that it has "almost zero stretch" making it non-energy retentive.
Above, someone mentioned the one way bearings. There are alot of sizes available for these but be careful of using exposed roller bearings directly on the motor shaft if the shaft is not hardened (some are but be careful). They will wear right into the motor shaft eventually due to the difference in hardness. The one way bearing I used has inner and outer races with an internal ball bearing for load support. I guess that's why they are so @#$%*&^! expensive !
Batteries are charged and the sun is out! Gotta go!!!
Tony
04-23-2005, 12:49 PM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
I also seem to recall seeing some guys using spools of mono line soaked in what looked like water then placing the whole thing on the winch for use. I guess it was to get more elasticity from the line or something. Anyone heard of this?
04-23-2005, 06:32 PM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
I just looked at the Little Big Winch site and saw the new anti-backlash brake he's offering as an option. http://www.irfmachineworks.com/lbwinch/newbrake.jpg
The only drawback is that you have to remember to release the brake before you walk out to retrieve the line. It looks like it would be F3B legal, and it's bound to be less expensive than a one-way bearing and hardened race. I may even try to incorporate it on my next sport winch, if I can figure out how to make an automatic release.
Roger
The only drawback is that you have to remember to release the brake before you walk out to retrieve the line. It looks like it would be F3B legal, and it's bound to be less expensive than a one-way bearing and hardened race. I may even try to incorporate it on my next sport winch, if I can figure out how to make an automatic release.
Roger
04-25-2005, 08:21 AM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
yup, flown on those kind of winches before. 
Forget to release the brake, and you're all set for a walk to the winch and back out to the chute ... again. 
Forget to release the brake, and you're all set for a walk to the winch and back out to the chute ... again.
05-12-2005, 02:43 PM
#40
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Well, As promised, I am selling my NESP winch. If anyone is interested it is posted on e-bay item #5975206580 and it is a darn good winch for a sport flier that needs a winch for 3 meter planes. I also have listed a pair of "Real Balls" endplates for the same winch but I am selling them seperately as I think this would have priced the winch out of the market. Then again, you can still bid on both. THE REAL BALLS ENDPLATES HAVE BEEN SOLD. THE WINCH HAS BEEN SOLD AS WELL. THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST. I AM WORKING ON A NEW WINCH AND MAY SELL THE ONE SHOWN HERE AS WELL. STAY TUNED!
[&o]Turbulence and barfbags!
Tony
[&o]Turbulence and barfbags!
Tony
05-12-2005, 03:21 PM
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
From your eBay llisting: ..."1400' of 200# test braided nylon line with no breaks. "
Where do you get double braided line with no breaks? I find several spots in every spool I get (from Memphis Net &Twine) where there is no inner braid. I run the whole length of line between my fingers to find these weak spots. They have to be cut out, and the line spliced.
It sure would be nice to have a winch line with NO splices.
Roger
Where do you get double braided line with no breaks? I find several spots in every spool I get (from Memphis Net &Twine) where there is no inner braid. I run the whole length of line between my fingers to find these weak spots. They have to be cut out, and the line spliced.
It sure would be nice to have a winch line with NO splices.
Roger
05-12-2005, 05:09 PM
#42
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
I got this line from a guy in Sacramento many moons ago. I really don't know where he got it from as we never really discussed it. I traded him an Airtronics receiver for it as I got it from a trade for another plane. Maybe someone else has an idea where to get it? There has got to be a source that has quality braided line out there somewhere. Memphis has some good resources but they don't have everything. I bought my Monofilament from a place on e-bay. Maybe other members can point you/us in the right direction.
Tony
Tony
The Real Balls have been sold. Sorry!!
05-18-2005, 11:08 PM
#44
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
THE NESP WINCH HAS BEEN SOLD AS WELL. THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST!
I AM WORKING ON A NEW WINCH AND THE DISCUS WINCH WILL BE SOLD AS WELL, SOON.
GOT TO FUND THE NEW PROJECTS!
TONY
"EVER BEEN IN A COCKPIT BEFORE, JOEY ?"
--CAPTAIN OVEUR--
I AM WORKING ON A NEW WINCH AND THE DISCUS WINCH WILL BE SOLD AS WELL, SOON.
GOT TO FUND THE NEW PROJECTS!
TONY
"EVER BEEN IN A COCKPIT BEFORE, JOEY ?"
--CAPTAIN OVEUR--
05-20-2005, 09:33 AM
#45
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Questions?
Next time you see your rebuilder I need a couple of questions answered. Are all Bosch motors stamped Bosch? Can he tell you which ones are 1.1kw in his pile?
Thankyou.
Rick
Rick,
If you need ANY kind of information or starter or parts these guys have it or can get it.
Their shop was VERY busy whenever I have been there.
Here is the info for the Starter supplier/rebuild place I went to:
Whatcom Electric
2021 Toledo Street
Bellingham, Washington
1-800-999-0094
The person I talked to was Ken Bell but I'm sure someone else can help you with specific questions.
You can probably find a rebuilder closer but I noticed they had alot of shipping coming in and out as well.
Below are pix of the larger brushes for the Ford motor next to the stock ones. Big difference.
Thermals,
Tony
Next time you see your rebuilder I need a couple of questions answered. Are all Bosch motors stamped Bosch? Can he tell you which ones are 1.1kw in his pile?
Thankyou.
Rick
Rick,
If you need ANY kind of information or starter or parts these guys have it or can get it.
Their shop was VERY busy whenever I have been there.
Here is the info for the Starter supplier/rebuild place I went to:
Whatcom Electric
2021 Toledo Street
Bellingham, Washington
1-800-999-0094
The person I talked to was Ken Bell but I'm sure someone else can help you with specific questions.
You can probably find a rebuilder closer but I noticed they had alot of shipping coming in and out as well.
Below are pix of the larger brushes for the Ford motor next to the stock ones. Big difference.
Thermals,
Tony
05-20-2005, 06:08 PM
#46
Member
Thread Starter
RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Well, I just found another great resource on the web for a buzzer that can be installed on dual solenoid winches very easily. I just HAD to put it on the Discus winch and try it out, with a few modifications. My piezo buzzer was obtained at Radio Shack along with the other parts and cost less than $20 to add on.
Let's face it, the LED indicators are nice but are you really going to check them EVERY time you launch? The buzzer alerts you to a stuck solenoid and the LED's tell you which one went AWOL. It is a silent system that will not go off even while the winch is in use, unless there gets to be a welded solenoid. I chose to use a 12 Volt piezo that beeps intermittantly so there's no mistaking something is wrong.
The picture shows the small circuit board mounted to the winch frame and the piezo mounted underneath the Hi Amp switch. Worked as advertised right off the board. The aluminum cover plate has been removed to show this.
To check out the full system and the EXCELLENT article please visit the following site:
http://www.vvsss.com/buzzer/
I hope folks are still interested in the posts. Sorry if I am putting out too much info.
Let's face it, the LED indicators are nice but are you really going to check them EVERY time you launch? The buzzer alerts you to a stuck solenoid and the LED's tell you which one went AWOL. It is a silent system that will not go off even while the winch is in use, unless there gets to be a welded solenoid. I chose to use a 12 Volt piezo that beeps intermittantly so there's no mistaking something is wrong.
The picture shows the small circuit board mounted to the winch frame and the piezo mounted underneath the Hi Amp switch. Worked as advertised right off the board. The aluminum cover plate has been removed to show this.
To check out the full system and the EXCELLENT article please visit the following site:
http://www.vvsss.com/buzzer/
I hope folks are still interested in the posts. Sorry if I am putting out too much info.
05-21-2005, 12:19 AM
#47
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
If your footswitch has two microswitches which come on at slightly different times, you can tell that if there's a stuck solenoid from the "feel" of the switch. Normally, the motor won't run until the second switch is closed. If the second solenoid is stuck, the motor will run when you close the first switch. There's very little chance the solenoid connected to the first switch will get welded since no current flows through it until AFTER it's fully closed. No arcing=no welding. But if it does get stuck, you won't hear it "click" when you press down a little on the pedal
The circuitry for the buzzer or LEDs is pretty clever, but I'll stick with my "Truly Redundant" footswitch.
Roger
The circuitry for the buzzer or LEDs is pretty clever, but I'll stick with my "Truly Redundant" footswitch.
Roger
05-21-2005, 09:04 PM
#48
Member
Thread Starter
RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Hey, that's a neat idea. So simple it's ingenious. I guess there are alot of ways to alleviate the welded solenoid issue. I suppose if you wanted to be super conservative, you could use BOTH systems but that is way over the top!!
I guess I just wanted an "idiot proof" system that would be a sort of "no doubt there's something wrong" system just in case my buddies are using my winch. They may not have a "feel" for a welded solenoid problem on a dual micro-switch activation system. Nevertheless, a great idea. Keep em' coming!
Tony
I guess I just wanted an "idiot proof" system that would be a sort of "no doubt there's something wrong" system just in case my buddies are using my winch. They may not have a "feel" for a welded solenoid problem on a dual micro-switch activation system. Nevertheless, a great idea. Keep em' coming!
Tony
06-02-2005, 12:56 AM
#49
Member
Thread Starter
RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
Here is a couple of photos of a Rahm winch and retreiver that is by far the most popular piece of equipment used by clubs here in the USA. This was the first winch I used on a large F3B plane for the first time when I was a member of the SVSS and I STILL remember it being very scary as I had only flown high starts before that. Luckily I had excellent help from the club "winchkeeper" and he talked me through it the first few times. I was AMAZED at the power and height attained by using this launch system. It was really cool to see how the retreiver just zipped the towline back to the launch area and another guy launched within a minute of my launch. It was kinda like using the rope-tow as a kid on the ski slopes for the first few times. Boy, that was scary!
I had always wanted a Rahm winch and could not afford it when they were available as I was one broke ****... When I could finally afford one, Mr. Rahm had stopped production due to what I believe were health problems. If you ever have a chance to see and use one of these beauties you will quickly realize why they were the prefered launch system for most clubs across the USA. I still wish I could get my hands on one to this day.
Anyway, I think the winch was a 12 Volter and we used 6V on the retreiver to make it less "hot" and prevent bird nests. Same guy usually ran the retreiver as ran the winch. I remember doing the one-glove action on the retreiver many times moving the line onto the spindle before reeling the line back in. I remember a few pretty good bird nests when a "new guy" would get on the retreiver. Doooooohhh!
Anyway, here are pictures of the winch and retreiver for those who are unfamiliar.
[8D]Thermals
Tony
I had always wanted a Rahm winch and could not afford it when they were available as I was one broke ****... When I could finally afford one, Mr. Rahm had stopped production due to what I believe were health problems. If you ever have a chance to see and use one of these beauties you will quickly realize why they were the prefered launch system for most clubs across the USA. I still wish I could get my hands on one to this day.
Anyway, I think the winch was a 12 Volter and we used 6V on the retreiver to make it less "hot" and prevent bird nests. Same guy usually ran the retreiver as ran the winch. I remember doing the one-glove action on the retreiver many times moving the line onto the spindle before reeling the line back in. I remember a few pretty good bird nests when a "new guy" would get on the retreiver. Doooooohhh!
Anyway, here are pictures of the winch and retreiver for those who are unfamiliar.
[8D]Thermals
Tony
06-02-2005, 12:58 PM
#50
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RE: Sneak Peek at my new F3B Winch
The one time I saw a Rahm retriever being used at a contest, it seemed to have a lot of twist in the line because of the small reel diameter. That made it more likely to bird's nest if something went amiss.
The retrievers I built in the mid-'90s had a much larger reel (16") and they didn't require any handling of the line. The handle that was connected to the pickup wand and turning pulley was spring loaded. It was held out of the way during the launch by a bar that rested on the pulley. When the retriever started, the bar was flipped out , and the wand moved over to pick up the line and guide it down to the turning pulley. Completely automatic, and it hardly ever got tangled.
What's your new winch project going to be??
Roger
The retrievers I built in the mid-'90s had a much larger reel (16") and they didn't require any handling of the line. The handle that was connected to the pickup wand and turning pulley was spring loaded. It was held out of the way during the launch by a bar that rested on the pulley. When the retriever started, the bar was flipped out , and the wand moved over to pick up the line and guide it down to the turning pulley. Completely automatic, and it hardly ever got tangled.
What's your new winch project going to be??
Roger