New Radio for Sailplanes
05-07-2005, 08:28 AM
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New Radio for Sailplanes
I am building my first sailplane, a 2 meter Drifter II, and need to purchase a radio. I really liked Futaba's new computer radio for sailplanes, the 6EXAS 6-Channel Super FM with 3 S3101 Servos (I also plan to use the same radio for flying a 4 channel engine powered trainer, so that's why I want more than just two channels). The problem is that this is a brand new radio, and Tower Hobbies doesn't have it in yet. In fact, I contacted Futaba, and even they don't know when it will be shipped to the US. It might not be here until August for all anybody knows. Can you suggest an alternative computer radio for sailplanes that I could purchase now? Thank you.
05-07-2005, 09:33 PM
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RE: New Radio for Sailplanes
jr 6102 with pcm receiver. Good radio - all the computer functions you need, but not overkill. I only buy JR stuff though, so I'm probably a little biased 
05-08-2005, 08:19 AM
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RE: New Radio for Sailplanes
I think I have the Futaba you mentioned. It's OK, but has some limitations, and I think it has been discontinued. If I were to do it over again, I'd get my hands on a Hitec Optic 6, which is roughly the same money.
05-11-2005, 06:01 AM
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RE: New Radio for Sailplanes
My budget is $300 max. I need everthing - transmitter, servoes, batteries, receiver, etc. I'll check into the jr 6102 and the Hitec. Thanks for the suggestions.
05-11-2005, 09:52 AM
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RE: New Radio for Sailplanes
In that budget range I suggest you consider the Optic 6, Jr 6102, the Futaba 7C and the Hitec Eclipse 7.
They are all good radios. The Eclipse has some support for 4 servo wings which might be useful in the future. I will discuss more about that below.
I am very focused on sailplanes so I was going to get the Eclipse, then decided to push up an extra $100 and get a Futaba 9C. Some of the considerations are spelled out below.
Before I got my Futaba 9C, I flew my full house sailplane on a Hitec Prism 7X. This is an older radio but it works fine. Though it lacks some nice features I was able to fly the plane. Here are some things I lacked and why I went to a new radio. My experience may be helpful to your evaluation of your next radio.
============================
How much radio do you need for a full house or scale sailplanes, aerobatic planes, pattern planes or 3D planes?
You can fly almost any on a standard 4 channel radio. However if you have some extra features that computer radios bring, it makes them easier to fly and you can do things that are impossible on standard radios or even entry level computer radios.
Support for a 4 servo wing is the first big item. This allows you to control each wing servo on its own channel. With this ability you can trim or reverse each servo, set its individual center and end points all from the radio. You can also change their nature and how they operate.
For example, with 4 servo wing control, you can have the flaps follow the ailerons for better roll performance on an aerobat, sport plane or 3D plane or hotliner sailplane. For thermal sailplane this can give you better control in thermals. For example, the extremely popular Hanger 9 Ultra Stick assumes you have this feature to create quad ailerons. You can fly the plane without it, but you won't be able to bring it to its full potential. http://www.ehobbies.com/han1690.html
The Hitec Prism 7X provides almost no ability to assign functions to switches dials. I was able to mix elevator to the flaps for landing but could only control them from a dial that was very inconveniently located. It worked but I didn't like the control or the location. I would have much preferred being able to control this from the throttle/airbrake stick. I could not assign that mix to the stick on the Prism 7X. I didn't like that.
The Prism 7X can't handle a 4 servo wing. So, I had to mount the flap servos differently then how I would have liked. I needed to align them so that they moved in the same direction. Since they were on the same channel, I could not reverse one from the radio. I could have purchased a servo reverser for about $25 but decided to save that toward a new radio. I used a Y cable to put them on one channel, 6. All the flap trimming had to be done from the control horns until I got them exactly right, then I could trim them together from the radio. However if I wanted to make any small adjustments to the individual flaps they had to be done on the plane. With 4 wing servo addressability, I can do them from the radio which is a more convenient method. But it didn't prevent me from flying the plane.
I also had a growing fleet and my Prism only had 3 model memories. I had managed to carefully configure my Spirit 2M RES and my Sagitta 600 2M res so that they could share one model memory location but any follow up tuning and trimming had to be done on the plane. It worked but it was inconvenient.
After researching the market the only 7 channel radio that I could find that had some 4 servo wing support and some limited switch assignability was the Hitec Eclipse 7. At the price is it is a great value and it offers some nice features like a removable channel module and the option of a channel synthesizer. It also supports shift select. I was going to get the Eclipse. The price was right and the feature set was good. Between its 7 model memories and the 3 on the Prism that would give me 10 model memories. That should be plenty.
However further research showed that if I was willing to push up $100 more I could go to an 8/9 channel radio, the Futaba 9C. This had much more flexible 4 wing servo control. It offered much more flexible switch/control assignment and it had unlimited model memory through removable memory cards. I was not up to 12 planes, so this seemed a good feature for me.
It also had a removable channel module and there was a channel synth coming. In addition, it can handle two elevator servos should I ever get into serious aerobatics or larger 3D planes. And it seemed to offer more flexible programming overall. And two extra channels, while not needed now might come in handy in the future. As it turned out I am now setting up a plane that will use all 9 channels and could actually use 10.
I later learned that some of the high end radios can handle 6 servo wings. Way more than I am ever likely to need, but just a point of information.
I went to the Futaba 9C because I am committed to sailplanes in a big way and want all the flexibility I can get. I also do some light contest flying. Nothing real serious, but enough to justify ( we really have to justify ) a more advance radio than what I had. You may not need to spend the extra dollars, but it is better to be informed and understand your options.
As you look over the features of new radios, here are the mixes I would look for in the priority I would want them for full house sailplanes. Others might disagree with the order, but we all have our preferences. I don't fly advance aerobats today, so someone else can comment on them.
Elevator to flap compensation, sometimes called landing mode - very helpful on landing. The safer and easier you can land, the more flights you can get in. When you pop the flaps, the elevator is mixed in to help keep the plane level. This mix can be done with the flaps on a Y cable but watch for where it is controlled. If the dial, switch or stick that is used is not conveniently located, as was the case on my Prism, this can be a pain.
Differential ailerons - the up aileron moves more than the down aileron - this requires the ailerons on two channels - Most, if not all computer radios can do this one. This helps reduce drag which allows the plane to fly more efficiently.
Rudder to aileron mixing. - automates coordinated turns which again goes to efficient flying. Usually you can override manually with the flip of a switch, or by moving the rudder stick.
Launch mode - for thermal sailplanes most pilots have a preset for flaps down, say 30%, ailerons down 15% and some elevator compensation up or down, depending on the plane. This maximizes the wings lift during launch at the expense of drag, but when you are going up the winch or hi-start you can afford the trade-off. Then flip the switch to return to normal flight before you zoom and release. I use this on every flight. This requires a minimum of 3 servos in the wing.
There are lots of others, but these are the four I would look for on any radio that I was going to consider for full house sailplanes. Here are a few other mixes that the 9C and higher radios can add.
Quad Ailerons/Quad Flaps - You can add the flaps to the ailerons so that the flaps move with, and coordinate with the ailerons This requires 4 wing servo capability. The flaps become extensions of the ailerons for more control surface movement. in sailplanes, sometimes the flaps are set at 50% of the aileron movement. Useful on sailplanes, very valuable on aerobats, pattern planes or 3D planes. For example, the extremely popular Hanger 9 Ultra Stick assumes you have this feature to create quad ailerons. You can fly the plane without it, but you won't be able to bring it to its full potential.
Flapperons - Ailerons can act as flaps or spoilers which can be helpful for landing
control. These are known as flapperons which is a change in assignment of the
surface from aileron behavior to flap or spoiler behavior. This requires two servos for
the ailerons. I use this on one of my slope gliders to help me set it down in the limited landing area that is typical at slope soaring sites.
Flapperons - flaps act like ailerons for planes that don't have ailerons. Found this idea being used on a R/E Flap sailplane. If you hit this link and read from post 49, you can see how this is used. Interesting idea.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...6&page=4&pp=15
Camber Changing Trailing Edge - On sailplanes they use a mix where the
ailerons follow the flaps to move the whole trailing edge down for a camber
changing effect, essentially changing the shape of the wing while it
is flying. This changes the glide characteristics of the plane.
Again, a minimum of three wing servos is needed to do this.
Crow/Butterfly - Sailplanes use this for precision landing. Both ailerons go up while the flaps go down. Usually the elevator is mixed in to handle any tendency of the plane to balloon up or dive when you pull this mix. This really slows the plane down to help with precision landing. Typically this is assigned to the throttle/airbrake stick.
Flaps to Elevator - Some sailplane pilots mix the flaps to the elevator when they are in a thermal to create a flatter climb while in a thermal. You create more drag, but you get more lift. When you in the thermal it can be a good trade-off. Some set two or three levels of this. I have been playing with it.
Read this only if you like to dabble in deeper technical stuff. This article
is on advanced set-up of a full house sailplane. Definitely not something a
beginner, or even a many experienced airplane pilots need to do. This is more
for competition pilots, but if you like to look at some of the advanced stuff,
this might be fun. It is a translation, so take your time as you read it.
http://www.gliders.dk/triming_and_se...der_wi_eng.htm
So, you can go wild spending on a radio to get all the bells and whistles. You don't have to. You can enjoy most planes with less than every feature available. However if you are going to make a purchase in the near future, go into it informed so that you don't find yourself saying, "if I had only spent a few more $$ I could have had a radio that would carry me a lot further".
Is this a fun hobby, or what?
They are all good radios. The Eclipse has some support for 4 servo wings which might be useful in the future. I will discuss more about that below.
I am very focused on sailplanes so I was going to get the Eclipse, then decided to push up an extra $100 and get a Futaba 9C. Some of the considerations are spelled out below.
Before I got my Futaba 9C, I flew my full house sailplane on a Hitec Prism 7X. This is an older radio but it works fine. Though it lacks some nice features I was able to fly the plane. Here are some things I lacked and why I went to a new radio. My experience may be helpful to your evaluation of your next radio.
============================
How much radio do you need for a full house or scale sailplanes, aerobatic planes, pattern planes or 3D planes?
You can fly almost any on a standard 4 channel radio. However if you have some extra features that computer radios bring, it makes them easier to fly and you can do things that are impossible on standard radios or even entry level computer radios.
Support for a 4 servo wing is the first big item. This allows you to control each wing servo on its own channel. With this ability you can trim or reverse each servo, set its individual center and end points all from the radio. You can also change their nature and how they operate.
For example, with 4 servo wing control, you can have the flaps follow the ailerons for better roll performance on an aerobat, sport plane or 3D plane or hotliner sailplane. For thermal sailplane this can give you better control in thermals. For example, the extremely popular Hanger 9 Ultra Stick assumes you have this feature to create quad ailerons. You can fly the plane without it, but you won't be able to bring it to its full potential. http://www.ehobbies.com/han1690.html
The Hitec Prism 7X provides almost no ability to assign functions to switches dials. I was able to mix elevator to the flaps for landing but could only control them from a dial that was very inconveniently located. It worked but I didn't like the control or the location. I would have much preferred being able to control this from the throttle/airbrake stick. I could not assign that mix to the stick on the Prism 7X. I didn't like that.
The Prism 7X can't handle a 4 servo wing. So, I had to mount the flap servos differently then how I would have liked. I needed to align them so that they moved in the same direction. Since they were on the same channel, I could not reverse one from the radio. I could have purchased a servo reverser for about $25 but decided to save that toward a new radio. I used a Y cable to put them on one channel, 6. All the flap trimming had to be done from the control horns until I got them exactly right, then I could trim them together from the radio. However if I wanted to make any small adjustments to the individual flaps they had to be done on the plane. With 4 wing servo addressability, I can do them from the radio which is a more convenient method. But it didn't prevent me from flying the plane.
I also had a growing fleet and my Prism only had 3 model memories. I had managed to carefully configure my Spirit 2M RES and my Sagitta 600 2M res so that they could share one model memory location but any follow up tuning and trimming had to be done on the plane. It worked but it was inconvenient.
After researching the market the only 7 channel radio that I could find that had some 4 servo wing support and some limited switch assignability was the Hitec Eclipse 7. At the price is it is a great value and it offers some nice features like a removable channel module and the option of a channel synthesizer. It also supports shift select. I was going to get the Eclipse. The price was right and the feature set was good. Between its 7 model memories and the 3 on the Prism that would give me 10 model memories. That should be plenty.
However further research showed that if I was willing to push up $100 more I could go to an 8/9 channel radio, the Futaba 9C. This had much more flexible 4 wing servo control. It offered much more flexible switch/control assignment and it had unlimited model memory through removable memory cards. I was not up to 12 planes, so this seemed a good feature for me.
It also had a removable channel module and there was a channel synth coming. In addition, it can handle two elevator servos should I ever get into serious aerobatics or larger 3D planes. And it seemed to offer more flexible programming overall. And two extra channels, while not needed now might come in handy in the future. As it turned out I am now setting up a plane that will use all 9 channels and could actually use 10.
I later learned that some of the high end radios can handle 6 servo wings. Way more than I am ever likely to need, but just a point of information.
I went to the Futaba 9C because I am committed to sailplanes in a big way and want all the flexibility I can get. I also do some light contest flying. Nothing real serious, but enough to justify ( we really have to justify ) a more advance radio than what I had. You may not need to spend the extra dollars, but it is better to be informed and understand your options.
As you look over the features of new radios, here are the mixes I would look for in the priority I would want them for full house sailplanes. Others might disagree with the order, but we all have our preferences. I don't fly advance aerobats today, so someone else can comment on them.
Elevator to flap compensation, sometimes called landing mode - very helpful on landing. The safer and easier you can land, the more flights you can get in. When you pop the flaps, the elevator is mixed in to help keep the plane level. This mix can be done with the flaps on a Y cable but watch for where it is controlled. If the dial, switch or stick that is used is not conveniently located, as was the case on my Prism, this can be a pain.
Differential ailerons - the up aileron moves more than the down aileron - this requires the ailerons on two channels - Most, if not all computer radios can do this one. This helps reduce drag which allows the plane to fly more efficiently.
Rudder to aileron mixing. - automates coordinated turns which again goes to efficient flying. Usually you can override manually with the flip of a switch, or by moving the rudder stick.
Launch mode - for thermal sailplanes most pilots have a preset for flaps down, say 30%, ailerons down 15% and some elevator compensation up or down, depending on the plane. This maximizes the wings lift during launch at the expense of drag, but when you are going up the winch or hi-start you can afford the trade-off. Then flip the switch to return to normal flight before you zoom and release. I use this on every flight. This requires a minimum of 3 servos in the wing.
There are lots of others, but these are the four I would look for on any radio that I was going to consider for full house sailplanes. Here are a few other mixes that the 9C and higher radios can add.
Quad Ailerons/Quad Flaps - You can add the flaps to the ailerons so that the flaps move with, and coordinate with the ailerons This requires 4 wing servo capability. The flaps become extensions of the ailerons for more control surface movement. in sailplanes, sometimes the flaps are set at 50% of the aileron movement. Useful on sailplanes, very valuable on aerobats, pattern planes or 3D planes. For example, the extremely popular Hanger 9 Ultra Stick assumes you have this feature to create quad ailerons. You can fly the plane without it, but you won't be able to bring it to its full potential.
Flapperons - Ailerons can act as flaps or spoilers which can be helpful for landing
control. These are known as flapperons which is a change in assignment of the
surface from aileron behavior to flap or spoiler behavior. This requires two servos for
the ailerons. I use this on one of my slope gliders to help me set it down in the limited landing area that is typical at slope soaring sites.
Flapperons - flaps act like ailerons for planes that don't have ailerons. Found this idea being used on a R/E Flap sailplane. If you hit this link and read from post 49, you can see how this is used. Interesting idea.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...6&page=4&pp=15
Camber Changing Trailing Edge - On sailplanes they use a mix where the
ailerons follow the flaps to move the whole trailing edge down for a camber
changing effect, essentially changing the shape of the wing while it
is flying. This changes the glide characteristics of the plane.
Again, a minimum of three wing servos is needed to do this.
Crow/Butterfly - Sailplanes use this for precision landing. Both ailerons go up while the flaps go down. Usually the elevator is mixed in to handle any tendency of the plane to balloon up or dive when you pull this mix. This really slows the plane down to help with precision landing. Typically this is assigned to the throttle/airbrake stick.
Flaps to Elevator - Some sailplane pilots mix the flaps to the elevator when they are in a thermal to create a flatter climb while in a thermal. You create more drag, but you get more lift. When you in the thermal it can be a good trade-off. Some set two or three levels of this. I have been playing with it.
Read this only if you like to dabble in deeper technical stuff. This article
is on advanced set-up of a full house sailplane. Definitely not something a
beginner, or even a many experienced airplane pilots need to do. This is more
for competition pilots, but if you like to look at some of the advanced stuff,
this might be fun. It is a translation, so take your time as you read it.
http://www.gliders.dk/triming_and_se...der_wi_eng.htm
So, you can go wild spending on a radio to get all the bells and whistles. You don't have to. You can enjoy most planes with less than every feature available. However if you are going to make a purchase in the near future, go into it informed so that you don't find yourself saying, "if I had only spent a few more $$ I could have had a radio that would carry me a lot further".
Is this a fun hobby, or what?
05-16-2005, 12:58 PM
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RE: New Radio for Sailplanes
Aeajr, thanks for the reply. Your description of the various features to look for is eye opening. Unfortunately, the Futaba 9C is outside of my target price range. While the features that this radio has are impressive, I do not possess the level of competence that would be required to make use of those features. I believe that the Hitec Eclipse 7 would be the radio that fits within my price range that has most of the advanced features you mentioned. Would you select the Hitec radio system over the Futaba 7C for flying sailplanes? And do you believe that the spectra module would be a worthwhile investment? I have heard that there is no agreed upon standard for the spectra system between different manufacturers, and that until this happens I should stay away from that feature. What do you think? Would the standard FM transmitter be the way to go instead of PCM?
05-16-2005, 04:51 PM
#8
RE: New Radio for Sailplanes
I have used the Hitec Eclipse 7 channel with Spectra module for several years. It works flawlessly with FMA, Luxor (single conversion) and a variety of old and new Hitec Rx's in my inventory. Similarly, my Futaba Super Seven - 15 years old also works fine with the above Rx's
I've got a Royal/Multiplex 9 channel with synthesised module due in tomorrow. This should take me to the next level
John C
I've got a Royal/Multiplex 9 channel with synthesised module due in tomorrow. This should take me to the next level
John C
05-16-2005, 07:15 PM
#9
RE: New Radio for Sailplanes
ORIGINAL: juggler-3310
Aeajr, thanks for the reply. Your description of the various features to look for is eye opening. Unfortunately, the Futaba 9C is outside of my target price range. While the features that this radio has are impressive, I do not possess the level of competence that would be required to make use of those features. I believe that the Hitec Eclipse 7 would be the radio that fits within my price range that has most of the advanced features you mentioned. Would you select the Hitec radio system over the Futaba 7C for flying sailplanes? And do you believe that the spectra module would be a worthwhile investment? I have heard that there is no agreed upon standard for the spectra system between different manufacturers, and that until this happens I should stay away from that feature. What do you think? Would the standard FM transmitter be the way to go instead of PCM?
Aeajr, thanks for the reply. Your description of the various features to look for is eye opening. Unfortunately, the Futaba 9C is outside of my target price range. While the features that this radio has are impressive, I do not possess the level of competence that would be required to make use of those features. I believe that the Hitec Eclipse 7 would be the radio that fits within my price range that has most of the advanced features you mentioned. Would you select the Hitec radio system over the Futaba 7C for flying sailplanes? And do you believe that the spectra module would be a worthwhile investment? I have heard that there is no agreed upon standard for the spectra system between different manufacturers, and that until this happens I should stay away from that feature. What do you think? Would the standard FM transmitter be the way to go instead of PCM?
good luck with it!
04-28-2013, 12:59 AM
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RE: New Radio for Sailplanes
FUTABA 9CAP Super problem - reset ch3 to throttle from flap setting
Hi All,
I have been flying F3F and had a friend set channel 3 to sequentially bring down the flaps with the throttle stick (ch3).
I have gone to parameters > reset > execute, which resets to factory settings for a new BASIC ACRO model but it did not change the throttle action away from the flap setting. So it looks like this affect is an overall Tx setting.
I cannot remember what was done to the settings which seems to be affecting all models, across the TX, and now I cant change it back to be able to set up a model to fly BASIC ACRO.
Does anyone have any clues to reset/change this flap back to throttle on ch3 ?
thanks for your help, Steve
Hi All,
I have been flying F3F and had a friend set channel 3 to sequentially bring down the flaps with the throttle stick (ch3).
I have gone to parameters > reset > execute, which resets to factory settings for a new BASIC ACRO model but it did not change the throttle action away from the flap setting. So it looks like this affect is an overall Tx setting.
I cannot remember what was done to the settings which seems to be affecting all models, across the TX, and now I cant change it back to be able to set up a model to fly BASIC ACRO.
Does anyone have any clues to reset/change this flap back to throttle on ch3 ?
thanks for your help, Steve
