Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
08-18-2005, 09:15 AM
#1
Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Friends,
I want to make you aware of two planes which I can highly recommend in kit form and in ARF form, but must suggest you avoid in RTF form unless you are going to make changes. As sold these packages have issues, in my opinion, especially as they will typically be purchased by new glider pilots. I have seen and flown both in stock form and can not recommend the RTF set-ups as currently sold.
The Great Planes Spectra Select and the Hanger 9 e-Aspire are of a similar class. These are two meter built up e-gliders that are based on proven sailplanes, the Spirit and the Aspire respectively. Properly configured they fly very well and can deliver a great thermal soaring experience. However both manufacturers have recently cut some corners in the RTF packages that cause concern.
The issues are power and the choice of electronics.
POWER PROBLEM
Both planes come with direct drive speed 550-600 class motors and folding prop. I think they are both 8X4 props and recommend 7 cell sub C packs for power. On this combo the planes can be flown up to soaring height but the climb is a weak 10-20 degree climb in calmer air and almost unmanageable in wind or gusty air. You can get it there but it is work. Not a good experience for a new pilot.
Low cost solution:
Add a 2.5 to 3.1 gear box to the stock motor and a 11X 7 or 11X 8 folding prop. On the stock 7 cells the climb will be in the 30 degree neighborhood and will be much stronger with good climb in moderate winds. This is no hotliner, but it will take it up to height much better and much faster and you will likely get an extra climb in the bargain. Go to 8 cells and the climb can actually feel pretty strong.
Cost?
About 15-$20 for the gearbox and about $15-$20 for new blades for the folding prop. You may need to remount the motor to accommodate the gearbox and you will have to reverse the wires to change the rotation of the motor. There are more expensive gearboxes that will fit better and don't require reversing the motor. Or you can buy a packaged motor/gearbox that is all set to go.
I have given you the low cost solutions. If you are building the ARF or kit, these are easy additions that will make your new e-glider fly much better for a modest additional investment.
Here are examples:
http://www.electrifly.com/motors/speed600.html
Geared systems - tower
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...gd&FVPROFIL=++
As a higher cost, higher performance alternative, you can go to a brushless motor/gearbox combo. Here is one example that looks like a good choice on 8-10 cells or 3 cell lithium that can handle 35 amps. On this set-up these planes should have strong, 45 degree or better climb angles and probably an extra climb or two.
MJ20152 MPJet AC 26/45-20 D Brushless Motor with 2.8:1 Gearbox ..... $ 68.90
An 11X8 prop should do fine with this combo.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless_mpjet.htm
Advance PLUS 30 Amp Brushless Controller $ 90.00
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/jetiblue.htm
ELECTRONICS PROBLEM
E-Aspire
The e-Aspire comes with a folding prop, but the ESC that is packed with the plane does not have the required brake in order to fold the prop. In my opinion, this is a stupid packaging mistake on the part of the manufacturer. For the cost of $4-8 retail, they could have a speed control with a brake and the prop would fold as designed. This is like getting a radio in your car, but no antenna.
Replace the stock ESC with one of these, or similar and you should be OK. About $35
Here are some ideas:
Great Planes ElectriFly C-35 Mini
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXKBF5&P=ML
30-Amp Mini ESC w/Brake
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=EFLA106
Spectra Select
Great Planes used to package this plane with a Hitec/Hobbico AM radio system with excellent range that worked well. They went to a Hitec FM system, which is fine, but they put in a different brand ESC/Receiver that has a range of under 1000 feet. For a 2 meter sailplane, that could be dangerous, in my opinion. It is very easy to get a 2 meter sailplane well over 1000 feet away from you. For a new flyer who knows little about such things this could lead to a flyaway of a 3 pound plane that is now an accident waiting to happen.
Remember I am not talking 1000 in height, but distance from the radio. Heck our flying field is 800'X1600', so the rated range of this receiver won't even allow me to safely fly it to the end of the field.
I would consider 3000 feet/1KM as a minimum range receiver for a 2M sailplane. My RTF Spirit Select was flown to spec height and distance many times on the AM 3000 foot range radio set-up included in that package. The current Spectra package is not right, and not safe for the plane, in my opinion.
Solution:
Replace the receiver with one with more appropriate range. Here are two examples that will work with that radio.
Hitec HFS-04MG - 4 channels and 1 mile range - About $42 with crystal
http://www.servocity.com/html/4-ch_hfs-04mg_fm_rx.html
Hitec Micro 555 - 5 channel with 1 mile+ range - about $62 with crystal
http://www.servocity.com/html/5-ch_555_fm_rx.html
I am not sure if the ESC/Receiver combo will allow you to deactivate the receiver part of the package and still use the ESC. If you replace the receiver you may have to replace the ESC as well. Read the instructions carefully! The ESC recommended for the e-Aspire above should work here too.
Summary
As kits or ARFs, these planes can be good choices and very satisfying to fly. But the RTF packages require too much modification, in my opinion, to be recommended for new flyers and an experienced modeler would be better off with the kit or ARF.
Most of the RTF planes I have tried have worked pretty well and some have been great. In this case, they cut too many corners.
Clear Skies and Safe Flying!
I want to make you aware of two planes which I can highly recommend in kit form and in ARF form, but must suggest you avoid in RTF form unless you are going to make changes. As sold these packages have issues, in my opinion, especially as they will typically be purchased by new glider pilots. I have seen and flown both in stock form and can not recommend the RTF set-ups as currently sold.
The Great Planes Spectra Select and the Hanger 9 e-Aspire are of a similar class. These are two meter built up e-gliders that are based on proven sailplanes, the Spirit and the Aspire respectively. Properly configured they fly very well and can deliver a great thermal soaring experience. However both manufacturers have recently cut some corners in the RTF packages that cause concern.
The issues are power and the choice of electronics.
POWER PROBLEM
Both planes come with direct drive speed 550-600 class motors and folding prop. I think they are both 8X4 props and recommend 7 cell sub C packs for power. On this combo the planes can be flown up to soaring height but the climb is a weak 10-20 degree climb in calmer air and almost unmanageable in wind or gusty air. You can get it there but it is work. Not a good experience for a new pilot.
Low cost solution:
Add a 2.5 to 3.1 gear box to the stock motor and a 11X 7 or 11X 8 folding prop. On the stock 7 cells the climb will be in the 30 degree neighborhood and will be much stronger with good climb in moderate winds. This is no hotliner, but it will take it up to height much better and much faster and you will likely get an extra climb in the bargain. Go to 8 cells and the climb can actually feel pretty strong.
Cost?
About 15-$20 for the gearbox and about $15-$20 for new blades for the folding prop. You may need to remount the motor to accommodate the gearbox and you will have to reverse the wires to change the rotation of the motor. There are more expensive gearboxes that will fit better and don't require reversing the motor. Or you can buy a packaged motor/gearbox that is all set to go.
I have given you the low cost solutions. If you are building the ARF or kit, these are easy additions that will make your new e-glider fly much better for a modest additional investment.
Here are examples:
http://www.electrifly.com/motors/speed600.html
Geared systems - tower
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...gd&FVPROFIL=++
As a higher cost, higher performance alternative, you can go to a brushless motor/gearbox combo. Here is one example that looks like a good choice on 8-10 cells or 3 cell lithium that can handle 35 amps. On this set-up these planes should have strong, 45 degree or better climb angles and probably an extra climb or two.
MJ20152 MPJet AC 26/45-20 D Brushless Motor with 2.8:1 Gearbox ..... $ 68.90
An 11X8 prop should do fine with this combo.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless_mpjet.htm
Advance PLUS 30 Amp Brushless Controller $ 90.00
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/jetiblue.htm
ELECTRONICS PROBLEM
E-Aspire
The e-Aspire comes with a folding prop, but the ESC that is packed with the plane does not have the required brake in order to fold the prop. In my opinion, this is a stupid packaging mistake on the part of the manufacturer. For the cost of $4-8 retail, they could have a speed control with a brake and the prop would fold as designed. This is like getting a radio in your car, but no antenna.
Replace the stock ESC with one of these, or similar and you should be OK. About $35
Here are some ideas:
Great Planes ElectriFly C-35 Mini
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXKBF5&P=ML
30-Amp Mini ESC w/Brake
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=EFLA106
Spectra Select
Great Planes used to package this plane with a Hitec/Hobbico AM radio system with excellent range that worked well. They went to a Hitec FM system, which is fine, but they put in a different brand ESC/Receiver that has a range of under 1000 feet. For a 2 meter sailplane, that could be dangerous, in my opinion. It is very easy to get a 2 meter sailplane well over 1000 feet away from you. For a new flyer who knows little about such things this could lead to a flyaway of a 3 pound plane that is now an accident waiting to happen.
Remember I am not talking 1000 in height, but distance from the radio. Heck our flying field is 800'X1600', so the rated range of this receiver won't even allow me to safely fly it to the end of the field.
I would consider 3000 feet/1KM as a minimum range receiver for a 2M sailplane. My RTF Spirit Select was flown to spec height and distance many times on the AM 3000 foot range radio set-up included in that package. The current Spectra package is not right, and not safe for the plane, in my opinion.
Solution:
Replace the receiver with one with more appropriate range. Here are two examples that will work with that radio.
Hitec HFS-04MG - 4 channels and 1 mile range - About $42 with crystal
http://www.servocity.com/html/4-ch_hfs-04mg_fm_rx.html
Hitec Micro 555 - 5 channel with 1 mile+ range - about $62 with crystal
http://www.servocity.com/html/5-ch_555_fm_rx.html
I am not sure if the ESC/Receiver combo will allow you to deactivate the receiver part of the package and still use the ESC. If you replace the receiver you may have to replace the ESC as well. Read the instructions carefully! The ESC recommended for the e-Aspire above should work here too.
Summary
As kits or ARFs, these planes can be good choices and very satisfying to fly. But the RTF packages require too much modification, in my opinion, to be recommended for new flyers and an experienced modeler would be better off with the kit or ARF.
Most of the RTF planes I have tried have worked pretty well and some have been great. In this case, they cut too many corners.
Clear Skies and Safe Flying!
11-08-2005, 10:35 PM
#2
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Oh...groan!
I appreciate the info. I'm building a Spectra from kit. Thought I was playing it smart by selecting components such as a Hitec Eclipse 7 QPCM (more channels than I need for this kit).
But, I had no idea that different receivers have different ranges. How do you tell the range before you buy (too late for me, I suppose)!
2new
11-09-2005, 04:41 AM
#3
RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Receiver range is published by the mfg. If that is a new eclipse, chances are the receiver has a 1 mile range. The Feather was the only FM receiver that I have seen from Hitec in the last 3 years with a range less than 1 mile. Their 2 and three channel AM receivers are rated at 3000 feet, as I recall.
11-09-2005, 08:19 PM
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Phew!
Looks like it will be fine. I checked the Hitec website as you suggested and see that the receiver does have a range of 1+ mile. The manual must also have this info written somewhere (although I didn't notice it)!
Thanks for the good advice.
2new
Looks like it will be fine. I checked the Hitec website as you suggested and see that the receiver does have a range of 1+ mile. The manual must also have this info written somewhere (although I didn't notice it)!
Thanks for the good advice.
2new
01-09-2006, 06:28 PM
#6
RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Range concern becam a problem when they changed to FM. Tower still lists it as coming with the AM set-up
The radio is labeled Hobbico, but it is a Futaba. They include the short range receiver/ESC with a 900 foot range. Not good.
If this has changed, perhaps someone will let us know.
This is the one that showed up in my friend's Spectra Select:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCRJ8&P=7
This is Great Planes 5-Channel Low Band 72MHz FM Receiver w/ESC.
Combining a fully porportional 30A ESC with brake and a 5 channel receiver in
the same package greatly reduces overall size and weight of
on-board components.
** Compatible with Futaba, Hitec, AND JR and Airtronics. **
Perfect for the Park Flyer Planes.
FEATURES: Small and lightweight at only 1.05oz (30g) (w/o crystal) which is
CRITICAL for park flyers.
Accepts only Futaba brand single conversion 72mHz crystals.
Tuned to either Low band (11-35) or High band (36-60)
Perfect for small Electric Indoor or park flyer models, or .25 size
nitro planes.
Approximately 890 feet of Maximum range.
Excellent sensitivity and noise filtering for precise control and
glitch free operation.
As described, this receiver is only appropriate for small planes. But they included it in a 2M sailplane. When we called and questioned the choice of component, they offered no remedy. This is what was included and this is what we were stuck with.
The plane flies fine, but you must be ULTRA careful not to gett too far away or the plane could get out of range.
If you get a spectra select and it comes with this ESC/receiver, I suggest you replace it with a separate ESC and receiver that has greater range. Take this one out and put into some other plane. Or, get the ARF and put it appropriate equipment.
The radio is labeled Hobbico, but it is a Futaba. They include the short range receiver/ESC with a 900 foot range. Not good.
If this has changed, perhaps someone will let us know.
This is the one that showed up in my friend's Spectra Select:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCRJ8&P=7
This is Great Planes 5-Channel Low Band 72MHz FM Receiver w/ESC.
Combining a fully porportional 30A ESC with brake and a 5 channel receiver in
the same package greatly reduces overall size and weight of
on-board components.
** Compatible with Futaba, Hitec, AND JR and Airtronics. **
Perfect for the Park Flyer Planes.
FEATURES: Small and lightweight at only 1.05oz (30g) (w/o crystal) which is
CRITICAL for park flyers.
Accepts only Futaba brand single conversion 72mHz crystals.
Tuned to either Low band (11-35) or High band (36-60)
Perfect for small Electric Indoor or park flyer models, or .25 size
nitro planes.
Approximately 890 feet of Maximum range.
Excellent sensitivity and noise filtering for precise control and
glitch free operation.
As described, this receiver is only appropriate for small planes. But they included it in a 2M sailplane. When we called and questioned the choice of component, they offered no remedy. This is what was included and this is what we were stuck with.
The plane flies fine, but you must be ULTRA careful not to gett too far away or the plane could get out of range.
If you get a spectra select and it comes with this ESC/receiver, I suggest you replace it with a separate ESC and receiver that has greater range. Take this one out and put into some other plane. Or, get the ARF and put it appropriate equipment.
01-10-2006, 12:41 PM
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Here are the concerns/questions I had for the manufacturer as I was investigating & acquiring info.:[
]
12) WHAT IS THE RANGE BETWEEN THE RECEIVER INSTALLED & THE
TRANSMITTER?
IS IT ADEQUATE FOR THIS SAILPLANE? THE FOLLOWING COMPONENTS WERE IN
THE PACKAGE:
TX: FUTABA SS3 T3FR-FM
RX: R114F CHANNEL 50 ( IS THIS CONSIDERED HI OR LO)
SERVOS: QTY 2 S3OO3
12) it has the ch 50 fm setup; what's the range between the R114F Rx &
this SS3 T3FR-FM Tx? ......i'm thinking it should be much more than 500 ft (as 500ft is
much too short horizontally & vertically for this sailplane...yes, i'm
worried
12) ok, here's my concern i will be taking up with GP; what in your opinion should the receiver range be? esp. for this type of aircraft?...i'm thinking at least out of sight range? a km? any receiver model suggestion that's recommended?
.....i'm surprised it's only 650 ft as i could very likely have lost the plane + consequences!
Response from my local distributor where Spectra was purchased from (local distributor) :[X(]
12) Not sure why it came with that receiver, it has a range of around 650ft, you should call Great Planes and speak to one of there techs. Just ask them why it has a micro receiver in it with a limited range instead of having a full range receiver, after all it is not a park flyer. Now keep in mind they might have tested this plane and found that this receiver is fine so just see what they have to say.
Here's the responses from the manufacturer:
12. The range I mentioned is a minimum range. There are too many
variable to determine the exact range. However, many of the FM systems
have ranges over 3000ft. Fly your
sail plane with confidence with the FM system
12)The range of the AM systems is a minimum of 500 ft.
Channel 50 FM is considered on the high band, but the high and low
band
system does not apply to AM
Here's my subsequent response back to mfgr:
thank you
your answers to my questions have been most helpful.
The only continued concern I have is with the receiver range of only
650 ft. I'm wondering if this is adequate, as the general opinion is
that it's not adequate for this glider. I would not want to lose the
plane & resultant consequences when encountering an active thermal
vertically or on the diagoanal..
What is the recommendedation?
.....and the response to date is as follows from the manufacturer:
I've flown a lot of 2m gliders, small nitro planes on the same
receiver
and never had a problem. In fact, 650 feet is a good deal of range. In
my experience if you get a plane this size 400-500 feet away it's
almost
to small to see what's going on. However, if you are worried you could
gi with a R127DF receiver and recommended crystal for that receiver to
get full range. The R127DF would be a lot larger, but that is the only
issue you would run into. Everything you have now will unplug and go
straight into the R127DF and your TX will work, too.
The receiver is on high band (channels 36 and higher). As for the
radio system it's fine for a glider, the range is 650 feet.
So, forum members, Sailplane pilots, what's your educated opinion on this issue?
Mfgr response? ...i think this issue is very important & may need a product change & correction asap. Should I return the current Rx installed & ask for a proper & adequate replacement Rx?
Thank you ia all!
aeajr, that is not the Rx that is in my Spectra.
]12) WHAT IS THE RANGE BETWEEN THE RECEIVER INSTALLED & THE
TRANSMITTER?
IS IT ADEQUATE FOR THIS SAILPLANE? THE FOLLOWING COMPONENTS WERE IN
THE PACKAGE:
TX: FUTABA SS3 T3FR-FM
RX: R114F CHANNEL 50 ( IS THIS CONSIDERED HI OR LO)
SERVOS: QTY 2 S3OO3
12) it has the ch 50 fm setup; what's the range between the R114F Rx &
this SS3 T3FR-FM Tx? ......i'm thinking it should be much more than 500 ft (as 500ft is
much too short horizontally & vertically for this sailplane...yes, i'm
worried
12) ok, here's my concern i will be taking up with GP; what in your opinion should the receiver range be? esp. for this type of aircraft?...i'm thinking at least out of sight range? a km? any receiver model suggestion that's recommended?
.....i'm surprised it's only 650 ft as i could very likely have lost the plane + consequences!
Response from my local distributor where Spectra was purchased from (local distributor) :[X(]
12) Not sure why it came with that receiver, it has a range of around 650ft, you should call Great Planes and speak to one of there techs. Just ask them why it has a micro receiver in it with a limited range instead of having a full range receiver, after all it is not a park flyer. Now keep in mind they might have tested this plane and found that this receiver is fine so just see what they have to say.
Here's the responses from the manufacturer:
12. The range I mentioned is a minimum range. There are too many
variable to determine the exact range. However, many of the FM systems
have ranges over 3000ft. Fly your
sail plane with confidence with the FM system
12)The range of the AM systems is a minimum of 500 ft.
Channel 50 FM is considered on the high band, but the high and low
band
system does not apply to AM
Here's my subsequent response back to mfgr:
thank you
your answers to my questions have been most helpful.
The only continued concern I have is with the receiver range of only
650 ft. I'm wondering if this is adequate, as the general opinion is
that it's not adequate for this glider. I would not want to lose the
plane & resultant consequences when encountering an active thermal
vertically or on the diagoanal..
What is the recommendedation?
.....and the response to date is as follows from the manufacturer:
I've flown a lot of 2m gliders, small nitro planes on the same
receiver
and never had a problem. In fact, 650 feet is a good deal of range. In
my experience if you get a plane this size 400-500 feet away it's
almost
to small to see what's going on. However, if you are worried you could
gi with a R127DF receiver and recommended crystal for that receiver to
get full range. The R127DF would be a lot larger, but that is the only
issue you would run into. Everything you have now will unplug and go
straight into the R127DF and your TX will work, too.
The receiver is on high band (channels 36 and higher). As for the
radio system it's fine for a glider, the range is 650 feet.
So, forum members, Sailplane pilots, what's your educated opinion on this issue?
Mfgr response? ...i think this issue is very important & may need a product change & correction asap. Should I return the current Rx installed & ask for a proper & adequate replacement Rx?
Thank you ia all!
aeajr, that is not the Rx that is in my Spectra.
01-10-2006, 05:06 PM
#8
RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Opinion is that the guy you are speaking with knows NOTHING about gliders. His comments aobut his glow planes are totally irrlevent. Minimum acceptible range for a 2M plane would be 2500 feet. Most Hitec and Futaba receivers have 1 mile+ plus range ratings. Even the AM radios have a 2500+ foot range.
it is not even slightly unusual to have that glider 500 -1000 feet up and 2000+ out. Not even slightly unusual
As you will note in my posts earlier in this thread, I was appauled when they put in the combined receiver/ESC that has a 900 foot range. Our flying field is 1600 feet long and we fly well past the end of the field over the woods when we are working thermals. That, plus 500-1500 feet in altitude.
Launching a light weight 2 M sailplane you will hit 400 -600 feet on launch off a hi-start. With an electric you could climb to 600 feet easily before you even start hunting for thermals.
I am very disappointed in these MFG. This hardware package is DANGEROUS!!!
Return the package
it is not even slightly unusual to have that glider 500 -1000 feet up and 2000+ out. Not even slightly unusual
As you will note in my posts earlier in this thread, I was appauled when they put in the combined receiver/ESC that has a 900 foot range. Our flying field is 1600 feet long and we fly well past the end of the field over the woods when we are working thermals. That, plus 500-1500 feet in altitude.
Launching a light weight 2 M sailplane you will hit 400 -600 feet on launch off a hi-start. With an electric you could climb to 600 feet easily before you even start hunting for thermals.
I am very disappointed in these MFG. This hardware package is DANGEROUS!!!
Return the package
01-17-2006, 12:53 PM
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
After my recent request to the manufacturer:
"Thanks for your inquiry to Great Planes.
The 3FR SS with the R114H was specifically design by Futaba to be used in Sail planes with the
full understanding of the distances involved. This is why Great Planes decided to use this
system. There are a lot of factors involved when it comes to range, such as the Tx power, the
Rx sensitivity and the local conditions. 650 ft is a minimum range under the harshest
conditions and does not indicate a total loss of control. In most areas you should get ranges
of well over 1,000 feet. When the Rx begins to get out of range, it will start glitching, but
you will not loose complete control.
In our testing and the testing of thousands of others who are flying the Spectra Select, the
R114H is more than adequate. Flying a plane at 1 mile out is impractical as you will loose
orientation of the plane, even a 2m sailplane, long before that. Most of the flying you will be
doing with this plane will be at less than 1,000 ft. That being said, safety is our primary
concern and we highly recommend that you range check your radio before each flight. Here is
Futaba's standard range checking procedures..."
I have indicated to them that diagonal distance is a big consideration & factor. I hope they do the right thing & correct this range issue for their current & future customers. This is a matter of safety, proper product design & hardware selection (not to mention product loss & customer satisfaction).
Glider pilots, what should the diagonal Tx & Rx distance be for a 2m glider? Opinions being solicited!
650ft? 1000ft? 3000 ft? or more?
Thanks & safe flying.
"Thanks for your inquiry to Great Planes.
The 3FR SS with the R114H was specifically design by Futaba to be used in Sail planes with the
full understanding of the distances involved. This is why Great Planes decided to use this
system. There are a lot of factors involved when it comes to range, such as the Tx power, the
Rx sensitivity and the local conditions. 650 ft is a minimum range under the harshest
conditions and does not indicate a total loss of control. In most areas you should get ranges
of well over 1,000 feet. When the Rx begins to get out of range, it will start glitching, but
you will not loose complete control.
In our testing and the testing of thousands of others who are flying the Spectra Select, the
R114H is more than adequate. Flying a plane at 1 mile out is impractical as you will loose
orientation of the plane, even a 2m sailplane, long before that. Most of the flying you will be
doing with this plane will be at less than 1,000 ft. That being said, safety is our primary
concern and we highly recommend that you range check your radio before each flight. Here is
Futaba's standard range checking procedures..."
I have indicated to them that diagonal distance is a big consideration & factor. I hope they do the right thing & correct this range issue for their current & future customers. This is a matter of safety, proper product design & hardware selection (not to mention product loss & customer satisfaction).
Glider pilots, what should the diagonal Tx & Rx distance be for a 2m glider? Opinions being solicited!
650ft? 1000ft? 3000 ft? or more?
Thanks & safe flying.
01-17-2006, 01:28 PM
#11
RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
I would want at least 2500 feet, or 1/2 mile which is 2640 feet.
I can confirm that I flew my Spirit Select, same plane without a motor, at well over 1500 feet out dozens of times using the supplied Hobbico AM radio, which is really a relabled Hitec SS3 AM radio. Rated range was 3000 feet.
Our club field is 1600 feet long. Standing at one end, because of the wind direction, I have flown way past the end of the clearing, 1600 feet, and out over the woods in pursuit of thermals. Direct line I would guess I was out 2000 feet or more, line of site. That takes into account both range and altitude.
Many people at my field fly Spirits, spectras, GLs and similar and NO ONE would fly the plane with that receiver. You would have to be nuts!
I plan to refer this thread to the AMA for investigation. These guys are creating an unsafe product set. Someone has to yell about this.
I can confirm that I flew my Spirit Select, same plane without a motor, at well over 1500 feet out dozens of times using the supplied Hobbico AM radio, which is really a relabled Hitec SS3 AM radio. Rated range was 3000 feet.
Our club field is 1600 feet long. Standing at one end, because of the wind direction, I have flown way past the end of the clearing, 1600 feet, and out over the woods in pursuit of thermals. Direct line I would guess I was out 2000 feet or more, line of site. That takes into account both range and altitude.
Many people at my field fly Spirits, spectras, GLs and similar and NO ONE would fly the plane with that receiver. You would have to be nuts!
I plan to refer this thread to the AMA for investigation. These guys are creating an unsafe product set. Someone has to yell about this.
01-17-2006, 04:18 PM
#12
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
YES, PLEASE DO. NOT ONLY DO I WANT THIS CORRECTED FOR MY MOST RECENT ACQUISITION, BUT TO CORRECT THE ISSUE FOR ALL INVOLVED.
01-21-2006, 06:09 AM
#13
RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
This is an edited version of what I sent to my local associate VP for the AMA. I would encourage anyone who has purchased this package to write to their AMA AVP or VP. Feel free to use my note below as source material. I consider this a dangerous package. And, I am surprised to see that Great Planes would market such a package.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson"
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 6:03 AM
Subject: Safety Issue around Great Planes Spectra RTF
Ray,
I am writing to you as AVP for AMA. I have been tracking a product in the
market and am becoming very concerned about its safety.
Great Planes makes an RTF version of the Spectra 2M sailplane called the
Spectra Select.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXVJ51**&P=ML
Dan, a member of our club, purchased one about a year ago. I was
concerned because the receiver that came with plane had a rated range of only
890 feet. That is way too little for use in a 2M thermaling plane. When Dan
contacted Great Planes, they said it was completely appropriate.
Dan only started flying the plane within the last 30 days. He has flown it
without incident so far, but he stays relatively close to the field. I worry
every time he puts it in the air.
Please also click this link. It goes to a thread I started on RC Universe
that brings this to the attention of people who might buy this package.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3274520/tm.htm
I ask you to go to post 7, written by OHNIKO. You read that he purchased the
package. Now they are packaging it with a receiver which has a range of 650
feet. That is not much more than winch height!!!! Danger!
He lists his exchanges with Great Planes. The responses disturb me.
Ray, I would like to bring this to the attention of the AMA as a safety issue.
This manufacturer is packing this 2 M sailplane with receivers that are meant
for small parkflyers that are flown in close. This plane is made to be flown
far away. The opportunity for injury, and property damage is high.
I would appreciate your help with this.
Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums
Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson"
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 6:03 AM
Subject: Safety Issue around Great Planes Spectra RTF
Ray,
I am writing to you as AVP for AMA. I have been tracking a product in the
market and am becoming very concerned about its safety.
Great Planes makes an RTF version of the Spectra 2M sailplane called the
Spectra Select.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXVJ51**&P=ML
Dan, a member of our club, purchased one about a year ago. I was
concerned because the receiver that came with plane had a rated range of only
890 feet. That is way too little for use in a 2M thermaling plane. When Dan
contacted Great Planes, they said it was completely appropriate.
Dan only started flying the plane within the last 30 days. He has flown it
without incident so far, but he stays relatively close to the field. I worry
every time he puts it in the air.
Please also click this link. It goes to a thread I started on RC Universe
that brings this to the attention of people who might buy this package.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3274520/tm.htm
I ask you to go to post 7, written by OHNIKO. You read that he purchased the
package. Now they are packaging it with a receiver which has a range of 650
feet. That is not much more than winch height!!!! Danger!
He lists his exchanges with Great Planes. The responses disturb me.
Ray, I would like to bring this to the attention of the AMA as a safety issue.
This manufacturer is packing this 2 M sailplane with receivers that are meant
for small parkflyers that are flown in close. This plane is made to be flown
far away. The opportunity for injury, and property damage is high.
I would appreciate your help with this.
Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums
Long Island Silent Flyers
www.lisf.org
01-23-2006, 09:26 AM
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Thank You. I have not heard back from the manufacturer as per my recent RMA/equipment replacement request. I am very disappointed to say the least. I will be directing them to this thread.
I urge all to consider this when contemplating a purchase.
I urge all to consider this when contemplating a purchase.
02-06-2006, 10:47 PM
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
I just picked up a used spectra select that was returned to the hobby shop because the new pilot hated the climb performance. I just bought the airframe as I didn't want anything to do with the cheap electronics package. She sports a JR reciever, JR 621 servos, a Hacker 30 ESC, and a Hacker A30-16-M with a thunder power 3 cell 2100, spinning a 10x5E prop. Those modifications got her to lose almost a full pound of weight. She'll climb out at about eighty degees! I'm at thermal altitude in about twenty seconds and the thunder power lipo is good for many climbs in one session. The stock set up for this bird sucks, but with a little tweaking she has become a favorite in my hangar. The motor change is a breeze. The new Hacker bolts into the stock mounting holes. You have to build a new servo tray to accomodate the smaller servos and build a battery tray to hold the lipos. The whole transformation can be done in a few hours and will leave you amazed the first time you climb out.
Happy soaring!
-Gus
Happy soaring!
-Gus
03-27-2006, 05:05 PM
#17
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Ed, I have a couple of questions for you. I bought a Spectra back in February and then saw this thread. I made one attemp to fly the plane to learn that it is underpowered as you said. I sent rx off to Hobby Services and just got back an RD127DF with no problems. While I was waiting I ordered a Electrfly T-600 and it just got here.
I noticed that you recommended a 11x7 or 11x8 folding prop if you add a gear box to the stock motor. Is this the correct size for the T-600 also? I still have the 7 cell pack. Will the T600 require an cell
I noticed that you recommended a 11x7 or 11x8 folding prop if you add a gear box to the stock motor. Is this the correct size for the T-600 also? I still have the 7 cell pack. Will the T600 require an cell
03-27-2006, 05:17 PM
#18
RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
ORIGINAL: VOLUNTEER
Ed, I have a couple of questions for you. I bought a Spectra back in February and then saw this thread. I made one attemp to fly the plane to learn that it is underpowered as you said. I sent rx off to Hobby Services and just got back an RD127DF with no problems. While I was waiting I ordered a Electrfly T-600 and it just got here.
I noticed that you recommended a 11x7 or 11x8 folding prop if you add a gear box to the stock motor. Is this the correct size for the T-600 also? I still have the 7 cell pack. Will the T600 require an cell
Ed, I have a couple of questions for you. I bought a Spectra back in February and then saw this thread. I made one attemp to fly the plane to learn that it is underpowered as you said. I sent rx off to Hobby Services and just got back an RD127DF with no problems. While I was waiting I ordered a Electrfly T-600 and it just got here.
I noticed that you recommended a 11x7 or 11x8 folding prop if you add a gear box to the stock motor. Is this the correct size for the T-600 also? I still have the 7 cell pack. Will the T600 require an cell
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXADK2&P=ML
If you are going to upgrade, I have recommended the T600GD with the gearbox. Is that what you purchased?
If you fly it with a 7 cell Sub A or Sub C pack, pack it is just OK. We fly them at our field with 7 cell sub C NICDs and they do pretty good, but you have to be patient and let it climb at a gradual rate, maybe 20 degrees but no more. Struggels in the wind.
Today you can by 8 cell A size packs that can handle 25 amps which is plenty for these planes. My freind just purchased an 8 A cell 1600 mah nimh pack from http://www.hangtimes.com/ep.html and the plane climbs very nicely. It is no hotliner but he has no problem
getting it up to height even in 10 mph winds.
ALTERNATE POWER SET-UP
If a more powerful battery pack does not satisfy you, you can add a 2.5 to 3.1
gear box to the stock motor and a 11X 7 or 11X 8 folding prop. On the stock 7
cells the climb will be in the 30 degree neighborhood and will be much
stronger with good climb in moderate winds. It will take it up to height much
better and much faster and you will likely get an extra climb in the bargain.
Go to 8 cells and the climb can actually feel pretty strong.
Cost?
About 15-$20 for the gearbox and about $15-$20 for new blades for the folding
prop. You may need to remount the motor to accommodate the gearbox and you
will have to reverse the wires to change the rotation of the motor. There are
more expensive gearboxes that will fit better and don't require reversing the
motor. Or you can buy a packaged motor/gearbox that is all set to go.
I have given you the low cost solutions. If you are building the ARF or kit,
these are easy additions that will make your new e-glider fly much better for
a modest additional investment.
Here are examples- Geared systems - tower
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...gd&FVPROFIL=++
consider these Gold Peak CBP2500A NIMH A Cell 2500s. 8 cell pack will be
lighter than 7 cell Sub C pack. About $30 should handle that motor just fine.
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/mai...gid=custompack
As a higher cost, higher performance alternative, you can go to a brushless
motor/gearbox combo. Here is one example that looks like a good choice on
8-10 cells or 3 cell lithium that can handle 35 amps. On this set-up these
planes should have strong, 45 degree or better climb angles and probably an
extra climb or two.
MJ20152 MPJet AC 26/45-20 D Brushless Motor with 2.8:1 Gearbox ..... $ 68.90
An 11X8 prop should do fine with this combo.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless_mpjet.htm
Advance PLUS 30 Amp Brushless Controller $ 90.00
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/jetiblue.htm
Reports are that this combo, on 7 cells and 13X7 Prop, will climb agressively.
AXI 282010 outrunner brushless motor + Jeti 40 Amp controller =
$175
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless...axi.htm#282010
03-27-2006, 07:23 PM
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Yep, the 601 comes with the plane. I never could find any specs on it.
Here's what I bought -
[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ765&P=7]T-600[/link]
It looks similar to the 601 except it has a shorter shaft.
Here's what I bought -
[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ765&P=7]T-600[/link]
It looks similar to the 601 except it has a shorter shaft.
03-28-2006, 06:17 AM
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
If it's identical then I'm back to square one. I'll call Tower and see what they say. I really don't want to go to a gear box as it takes too much work to modify the nose of the plane and I don't want to go brushless because of the cost. Something about making a silk purse from a sows ear. Thanks Ed.
03-28-2006, 12:49 PM
#22
RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Then the best thing to do is go to 8 cells using the standard motor. As I posted below. Regardless of what else you may choose to do you will need battery packs so this makes a good first step. I am not sure if the T601 will tollerate 11.1V 3 cell lipos. It will definately take 8 cell NiMh packs of 9.6V.
Today you can buy 8 cell A size packs that can handle 25+ amps which is plenty for these planes.
My freind just purchased an 8 A cell 1600 mah nimh pack from NoBSBatteries, http://www.hangtimes.com/ep.html and the plane climbs very nicely. It is no hotliner but he has no problem getting it up to height, even in 10 mph winds using the standard motor and folding prop. We fly Spectras and Aspires at our field on 7 cells NICDs all the time.
You can also try www.cheapbatterypacks.com for packs. As the name implies they are lower cost but I don't know if they are of the same quality as the packs from NOBSbatteries. That is up to you.
If you go to cheap battery packs, take a look at the CBP2500A NiMh A cells 2500 mah on this page.
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/mai...gid=custompack
They will make up any shape with any connector. Talk to them about your application to be sure these cells can handle the load. And an 8 cell pack of these will likely weigh less or the same as a 7 cell sub C NICD 2100 MAh pack that is normally used with this plane. It should have no trouble putting out the amperage you are looking for. Go down the page an click on number of cells, which cell, shape and what kind of connector. Should be about $30.
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/mai...gid=custompack
You can also experiment with props. For folding props you just replace the blades.
Today you can buy 8 cell A size packs that can handle 25+ amps which is plenty for these planes.
My freind just purchased an 8 A cell 1600 mah nimh pack from NoBSBatteries, http://www.hangtimes.com/ep.html and the plane climbs very nicely. It is no hotliner but he has no problem getting it up to height, even in 10 mph winds using the standard motor and folding prop. We fly Spectras and Aspires at our field on 7 cells NICDs all the time.
You can also try www.cheapbatterypacks.com for packs. As the name implies they are lower cost but I don't know if they are of the same quality as the packs from NOBSbatteries. That is up to you.
If you go to cheap battery packs, take a look at the CBP2500A NiMh A cells 2500 mah on this page.
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/mai...gid=custompack
They will make up any shape with any connector. Talk to them about your application to be sure these cells can handle the load. And an 8 cell pack of these will likely weigh less or the same as a 7 cell sub C NICD 2100 MAh pack that is normally used with this plane. It should have no trouble putting out the amperage you are looking for. Go down the page an click on number of cells, which cell, shape and what kind of connector. Should be about $30.
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/mai...gid=custompack
You can also experiment with props. For folding props you just replace the blades.
03-29-2006, 05:38 AM
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
Tower confirmed that the two motors are identical. They recommended one dsignated as an S600 with the number GPM 0710 with has a rating of 16+5 watts but I am unable to find it for sale anywhere. I guess the next step is to try the 8 cell pack you recommended. Thanks as always Ed.
04-26-2006, 01:15 AM
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RE: Spectra Select & e-Aspire - RTF problems
I called Great Planes today to report the receiver range issues discussed on this BB. After some fussing and consulting with someone, the tech service rep acknowledged other customers have called in with similar complaints, and offered to exchange the stock receiver with another one with improved sensitivity (# R168DF). I only need to pay the differential cost of $30.
Is anyone familiar with this receiver? Should I accept this offer and new part, or should I buy one of the receivers previously identified (ie, Hitec HFS-04MG )? The net costs are about the same to me. Any comments?
Thanks,
James
Is anyone familiar with this receiver? Should I accept this offer and new part, or should I buy one of the receivers previously identified (ie, Hitec HFS-04MG )? The net costs are about the same to me. Any comments?
Thanks,
James