da Rock

Bought a Siren the other day. 2M electric sailplane with ailerons, T-tail, great looking carbon fiber fuselage. But the suggested two power setups don't sound too good. The brushed motor setup sounds lame and the Kontronic brushless is more expensive than a house payment in California.

So I looked around and came up with some alternates. I've already got a couple of 2000mAh, 3S LiPo's I'd like to use, so that came into play just a bit. I figure to use a CastleCreations Phoenix45 ESV.

After starting to assemble the Siren, I weighted the parts and figure it's going to come out right on 2.75 pounds (1250g) with the 7oz battery and about an 8 ounce motor (whatever that is).

The best motor looks to the a JETI Phasor 30/3. The 15/4 sounded like it'd work but didn't read like it would be powerful enough. The 30/3 reads like it'd want a 10/6 prop. It would fit the fuselage (1.45" diameter cross section).

Next best would be an AXI outrunner that would only fit if I ran the wires outside the fuselage to get around the "outrunner" part. The 2820/12 would work and spin a 10/6. The 2814/12 would also but only turn a 9.5/5 prop.

It looks like a Hacker B40 with a gearbox might work, but that looks like it'd cost maybe $130 more than the other setups and that's too much.

Anybody got any ideas?

da Rock

Think I'll forget the outrunners. The more I look at the front of this model, the less adaptable they seem.

I've just found the Himax brushless motors. Looks like the HA2825-3643 for $130 with included gearbox looks like it'd work too. It looks like it'd swing a 12x8 and haul this Siren with authority. And it's nice and narrow.

ptb

[8D]I have 4 / 2 meter gliders.
One is the swift with a axi 28-20-10, swings an 11/7. nice motor, good power.
One is a home built, glass fuse, obechi skinned foam wing's, about 4 lb's!
It has a mega 22-20-4 with a 2/1 gearbox, swings a 14/9.5.
I just bought a multiplex BL 480-4D with 4/3 gearbox, good buy at 109.00.
I also bought a permax 2825-3643 which i have not installed yet.
The last 2 motors should be great for your siren!

da Rock

Excellent! Thanks for the help.

da Rock

Oh yeah, are you using folding props? I'd guess that everyone would, but they seem so hard to find......

Where did you find yours and what are they?

cpkennedy

I'm building one now too. Here's the motor that was suggested to me based on power vs economics: MEGA Speed 480 ($109). I haven't finished the build so I can't tell you if it was a good choice or not. And, I am using a folding prop. Hope this helps.

shawn229

My Feedback: (6)

AXI 2826/10 Brushless

http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=5230

CONTENDER

Darock,
I've been flying the Siren with the 30/3 Phasor, a Jeti 40 amp speed control on an 8 cell, 1700 mah nicad
pack, using a 10/6 prop, and it does great. It feels like a rock with that battery but it pulls out of your hand with ease. Then... when you splt-S, stop and fold the prop, it screams. The weight works to its advantage here.
Just plan your landings, because it does not like to slow down, in fact I blip the motor, and use the spinning prop as a brake on final.
Also, the fuse is very fragile!!!! It's split along the seams several times, and if you catch a wing tip, it does stress and
crack the wing saddle.....so land neat, and be ready to patch the fuse.
It's is a ball to fly, and this combo will give you 10 minutes or more, of climbing and diving.
It's not a floater thou.....I don't think it would thermal over a volcano!!!!!

Have fun
CONTENDER

r0bman

just bought this plane, was planning on going w/ the 30/3 phasor that you mentioned, until I talked to the owner of my hobby shop, an electric guru (and VERY talented builder). He's pretty confident that we can fit an AXI outrunner in, WIRES INSIDE. It would involve tying down the wires to be flush with the inside of thefuse (he insists this is easy business, won't need any cutting, etc, offered to help). I also suggested adding a few firewall spacers (motor adapters, about a mm thick, adding them flush on the inside of the firewall between the nose and the motor) to push the motor's mounting point back farther into the fuse where there is more room for the wires to get by.

Long story short, I'm skepitcal. The AXI is actually cheaper than the "paperweight" JETI (as the guru refers to it, he's sort of a "latest and greatest only" guy) and puts out more power, but I'm nervouse about having the wires that close to the motor.

I plan on heading down there again this week to buy my motor / ESC. I'll let you know what i go with, how I do it, and if I reccommend it to anyone else

Tony Iannucelli

My Feedback: (193)

I've had a Siren since last summer. Most fun I've had in a long time. I'm old to the hobby and new to electrics. I bought a geared HiMaxx and Castle 45 from Esprit hobbies for it. They had the combo for $210. The install was smooth, except the holes in the firewall are for the Kontronik (and others), but not the Max. After some CF filler and plywood redrill, everything was great. I use a 13 X 7 Graupner folder and a turbo aluminum spinner. Very nice setup recommended by Esprit. I bought three 10 cell NIMH batteries, 2000mah, for $30 each from Tower. The plane balanced perfectly with this setup. Oh yeah, it leaps out of your hand... 20 minute flights if you can stand it. At least 8 - 10 climbouts at full blast. 6 - 7 loops on the way down, or an insane dive from the top with that whistling sound as it glides by... First attempt at landing was without spoilerons and it went by me at about 30 miles an hour. I got the hang of it quickly, and the spoilerons work. So I've got this $600 sailplane now, and it's worth it! I want another one, and I want the Kontronik. Want, want, want.... if my wife reads this, I'm a dead man.

CONTENDER

rObman,
Has your building friend seen the Siren??? You have to load the motor thru the wing saddle, over the tray
that holds the battery, then fish it down to the firewall to hit the screw holes. Then, there is no way to be sure if the
outrunner is not rubbing the wires....can't see down there.
Save yourself some time and trouble, use the Phaser, or a can brushless with a gearbox.....much easier, and besides, the fun is not the powered flight, it's the folded prop screaming dives, and high energy aerobatics!!!!
If it had a hatch in front of the wing..the outrunner would be fine....Model airplane News had a review of the "Lift Off"
with this kind of setup last year....
Good Luck
CONTENDER

r0bman

CONTENDER,

yeah, we actually had the AXI outrunner and the siren opened up on the counter... I'm almost certain that if I have to go w/ the AXI I'm going to have to run the wires outside... hmm. They always have both motors in stock (the 30/3 Phasor and the AXI) so I'm probably going to make the call last minute when I buy.

Thanks for the input... greatly appreciated.

curious george

so has enyone tried the recommendid stock t-601 ferrite motor?

Big Oakden

My Feedback: (3)

COntender,

here's a quick easy and cheap fix to the landing problem:

go to your LHS and pick up a sig nosegear mount (the white one)
get a length of 1/16" steel wire (@ LHS) and a 1/2" dia. tailwheel (to fit a 1/16" shaft).

drill the mount half way between the hole for the gear and the round side of the mount.

Slide the steel shaft through one side, the tail wheel and out the other. Push through until flush on other side of mount, mark with tape, pull back out, cut it off, restick it in and use silicon cement to insure that it does not come out.

Then find your CG point on the glider and mount it with silicone adhesive about 5mm to the front of the CG.

Once you get it to the ground, she'll roll about 100-200 ft.

Dave

rcpete66

My Feedback: (9)

I have a programing or jeti problem with my new Siren. I have nearly the same setup as Tony with a Himaxx HA2825-5433, Castle 45 jeti, lipo 2100 batt (three cell). After I program the jeti, with the throttle setup as standard, I can operate the throttle from 0 to full throttle with my Fut. 9cap as long as the prop is not mounted. When I mount my Graupner 13-7 folding prop, the prop winds up to about 2/3 stick on the transmitter, then shuts the motor down. It seems that the motor is really winding out to top rpm but I don't like not knowing where this shut off is on the stick. I get full control of the stick without the prop but only partial with it. I have not charged the batt as yet, seems fully charged from the factory as it tested with a meter right where they said it should be.
Appreciate any help. Thanks.
Pete

Big Oakden

My Feedback: (3)

Pete,

First impression sounds to me like you need to charge the battery.

When I have flown too much on my Lipo pack, I get momentary throttle, then it shuts off.

If you have a whatt meter, I would hook it up (with the prop installed) run up your power and see what it says. Then take off the prop and check it again.

If it is not the charge of the battery I would look into the ESC programming.

Hopefully someone else who has been doing this longer than myself can clarify further.

But I would start with the Whatt Meter and go from there.

Dave

rcpete66

My Feedback: (9)

Thanks Dave, I'll give it a try and let you know what happens.
Pete

ptb

[]Rcpete66
If p calk is anywhere close, your setup draw's about 60 amps !
And the voltage drops to about 6.25 ! Either will kill your lipo, and or your esc, as it's
a phoenix 45. You should have got the 3643 ! Forget the 13/7 and go to about a 10/6.
And your still going to need about a 2100/20c lipo !

bckyrdbshr

My Feedback: (35)

The Axi motors fit in the Siren just fine.... I know several people using them including myself... No need to run the wires on the outside of the fuse they will fit inside no problem. Best way to do it (to me) is to shrink wrap the wires and then use glue or Shoe Goog (I prefer the Goo) to hold the wires down to the bottom of the fuse.. You can also use drinking straws if you dont have shrink wrap.

8_Ball

My Feedback: (2)

Wow....great thread for the Siren! I am building mine right now and have come to doubt the stock power system will give the same smile-per-flight factor as a brushless system. I am going to look at the Himaxx setup and do the math. Whatever I get I want to make sure I can use it going forward in other gliders. Not too sure about the outrunner setup, it doesn't look like it would fit! Does anyone have any pics of their outrunner installation? Anyone running theirs in a 4s2p setup?

rcpete66

My Feedback: (9)

I talked to Bernie at Castle Creations who tells me that the Himaxx 5433 I have will work fine with GP2200 nimh side-by-side pack from Cheapbatterypacks.com. Therefore, I ordered the pack from them and it works very well. You have to change the Phoenix 45 setup to cut-off at 5volts and it will work well with the 13x7 prop, or even down to a 11x8 or 10x7.
Pete

da Rock

I've been passing over finishing the Siren for quite awhile now. Been putting off extending the servos' leads and trying to decide how to do the tail servo (don't like the tail servo location) and the procrastenation has waylaid progress.

I bought a MULTIPLEX Permax BL-480/6G with a 3.3:1 gearbox. It looked to give a clean motor installation and would use a CC Phoenix ESC I got for another plane and a battery that I already have (from a MiniEdge). I had to adjust the firewall to take the motor, but that wasn't too bad. Also, the efficiency looks to be good. I plan to use the motor to "launch a thermal type flight". Don't plan to do any "hotlining". I got some pretty excellent glofuel planes for that.

I extended the servo leads just the other day and picked up an RS620UL RX so ought to be good-to-go pretty soon.

curious george

I am almost done with me Siren,I have been working on a few projects ,,Park flyers,,and am wondering if I should use my DX6 radio gear on the siren. Hav'nt had eny problem with it, do'nt plan on going eny farther then maybe 2 football fields, eny coments?

8_Ball

My Feedback: (2)

I wouldn't recommend the DX6 for use with the Siren...not that it wouldn't work just fine, but from what I understand the DX6 is expecially designed for Park Flyers and has a more limited range than 72Mhz. In the type of soaring I do that might be an issue. Of course YMMV...If that is the only radio you have, go for it.

da Rock

8_Ball,
You know, there is a sort of mystery about the range capability of that radio. More than one writer has mentioned in the popular magazines that there was a political reason that the radio is advertised for park flyers only. I haven't noticed what the TX's power output is (might oughta check, shouldn't I) but I doubt that it's less than the average of the sets that don't have the restriction.

All of that said, flying any system in a glider WILL test the range of that system better than any other type of model use. Gliders WILL wind up farther away than you plan. Curious George, the idea that you're only going to fly your siren real close to you is going to blow the first time you hit a thermal. OK, maybe you're disciplined enough to ignore that "free" lift. But wait until you're flying with buddies and one of them specks out. I got close to $350 in my Siren. I've flown thermal gliders for years and years and years. No way I'd fly my Siren with any radio, no matter what the rumors about it, that said it was limited range. chuckle.... that is..... unless I'd done some SERIOUS range testing that didn't risk a lost Siren..... grin