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RC Gliders, Sailplanes and Slope Soaring Discuss rc gliders,rc sailplanes and slope soaring in this forum. Thermaling techniques, airfoils, tips, etc

Looking for a good first sailplane

Old 08-08-2006, 02:00 PM
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SnitGTS
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Default Looking for a good first sailplane

Hello all! I'm new to rc flying and I'm currently having a blast learning on my Graupner Tipsy! I would like to expand my inventory of aircraft soon and I'd like to get a sailplane. I'd like something with a decent wingspan but that has the ability to be taken apart for easy storage. Either 3 or 4 channel is fine.

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

Jay

PS: I've heard the term crow breaking before, what is that exactly? Something to do with spoilers?
Old 08-08-2006, 02:25 PM
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slopemeno
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane

Hey. Crow is a term you'll see used when a sailplane has both ailerons and flaps. The flaps go down, and the ailerons go up. The net effect is a huge 3+ meter span sailplane coming down at a crawl, which makes landings easier. The group of guys who I fly with have found, however that 90 degree down flaps and leaving the ailerons alone is a great setup too.

For a good first sailplane, I would suggest either the Great Planes Spirit, or the Carl Goldberg Gentle Lady. Either one is available as an ARF, but I suggest you build it so you know how to repair it once it gets broken. Either one can be built with take-down wings, but a 2-meter isnt all that big really, so find a closet or garage you can stash it in. If you insist on making it a takedown, give serious consideration to making a removeable stab as well. If you want a larger plane a good value is the Bird of Time ARF by Tower Hobbies. Its 119" and it thermals really well.

Check out the following sites just to get you started: SoaringUSA, Northeast Sailplane Products,
Trick R/C, Skybench, Skyking R/C, [email protected]... I'm sure other folks will chime in with some other sites.
Old 08-09-2006, 08:17 AM
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane

Let me second this statement :If you want a larger plane a good value is the Bird of Time ARF by Tower Hobbies. Its 119" and it thermals really well."

You get a lot of plane for your $139.00 and it thermals and flies so well I really am not sure that there is a better value out there right now.

It is a very forgiving plane and is great to learn on.
Old 08-09-2006, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane

Yep. Slopeflyer33 (here and on RCGroups) has had one for a year or so, and it flew great. The only caveat is: the wing is weak if youre winch launching it. High starts dont seem to bother them, and I would suspect that most of us are high start users anyway. There are some tutorials online that show how more experienced fliers have taken the center section covering off, reinforced the wing, and recovered it.

Also, it doesnt hurt to hang around with your local glider flying group. Lots of these guys, like me and probably everone here, has the "too many gliders syndrome". You might catch one of them on a moment of weakness (or clarity depending on how you look at it) and pick up a clean used, prebuilt plane.
Old 08-10-2006, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane

Thanks for your help guys! I'll check out the sailplanes everyone recommended and go from there.

I've seen some videos of guys flying sailplanes and some of them had a real hard time landing them, I saw that they had both the ailerons pointing up but I don't remember seeing flaps down on them. Either way, I'm assuming they used a computerized rc transmitter for that. The Hitec 3 channel I have currently definately won't handle that, anyone know of a good controller out there for relatively cheap that I can use for my entire fleet? I'm planning on getting a variety of planes and maybe a helicopter and I'd like to get one controller that I can use for all of them. Again, thanks for your help!!!

Jay
Old 08-11-2006, 05:05 PM
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane


ORIGINAL: SnitGTS

Thanks for your help guys! I'll check out the sailplanes everyone recommended and go from there.

I've seen some videos of guys flying sailplanes and some of them had a real hard time landing them, I saw that they had both the ailerons pointing up but I don't remember seeing flaps down on them. Either way, I'm assuming they used a computerized rc transmitter for that. The Hitec 3 channel I have currently definately won't handle that, anyone know of a good controller out there for relatively cheap that I can use for my entire fleet? I'm planning on getting a variety of planes and maybe a helicopter and I'd like to get one controller that I can use for all of them. Again, thanks for your help!!!

Jay
GETTING STARTED IN GLIDERS
by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

Thinking of flying gliders, but you are not sure? That is how I was.

I started with electric parkflyers with no interest in gliders. Then I met
a group of guys who fly gliders. After watching them for a couple of
months, in between my electric flights, I decided I had to try it. Now I am
hooked. I have 6 electrics, but I also have 12 gliders. I love to fly the
electrics, but it is the gliders that I think about all the time.

By the way, for all practical purposes, gliders and sailplanes are the same
thing.


TWO KINDS OF FLYING WITH GLIDERS/SAILPLANES

Thermal Duration - Lift is provided by warm rising air.

A thermal is a column of warm rising air that occurs when one section of the
ground warms faster then other sections. As the air raises it draws in
more air. Think of a very slow moving tornado. Not exactly
correct but close enough for first approximation.

What do thermals look like?
http://www.flyaboveall.com/mountain...ermalclinic.htm

Finding Elusive Thermals
http://f4bscale.worldonline.co.uk/Thermals.htm


Slope Soaring - Lift is provided by wind hitting a hillside.

The rest of this discussion is about thermal duration gliders, but if slope
soaring is of interest, here are some links that will introduce you to slope
soaring. I enjoy slope soaring often and, on some days. I slope and
thermal. Those are great days. Most TD planes can be flown on the
slope, so after you learn to thermal, the same plane may also be able
to introduce you to slope soaring.

How Slope Soaring Works
http://users.iafrica.com/s/st/stevemac/afc/ssoar.html
Slope Soaring:
http://kohlin.com/air/soar-faq.htm#589883
The dark side of slope soaring - DSS
http://www.sailplaneshop.com/cgi-bin...num=1135739886


THERMAL DURATION GLIDERS/SAILPLANES

HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO GET STARTED?

For about $200 you can be in the air with a real sailplane, a real radio
and a real great time ahead of you. If you already have a radio, it can be
even less of an investment.

If you get a RTF package like the Great Planes Spirit Select, $150, it comes
completely built with the radio system fully installed. This was my first
sailplane.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXVK55**&P=7

While you can hand throw the Spirit, it is really meant for hi-start
launching. Add a hi-start for about $60.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXE636&P=7
There are better hi-starts out there, but this one will get you into the
air.

That is all you need. In fact, with this combination you could enjoy a
lifetime of soaring and never need anything else. No fuel, no battery
chargers, no extra flight packs, nothing! OK, you replace the batteries a
couple times a season, and maybe you replace the hi-start every 5-10. This
is a very inexpensive form of RC flying.

As much as I love the Spirit, the Multiplex Easy Glider has become
my number one recommendation for new glider pilots. Unlike the Spirit the
Easy Glider is made of Elapor foam. It can take a real beating without
requiring a lot of repairs. I have flown one off a hi-start and a winch.
It flew very well. Beginner mistakes that would send the Spirit to the
repair table would not break the Easy Glider, or would only take a few
minutes
to fix with some CA glue.

The Easy Glider is available as a kit for $79, but now they offer it as a receiver
ready package. This is pretty easy! $129
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMYK9&P=7
review
http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=5042

Buy the plane, put in your receiver and flight battery, set up your radio,
balance it and you are ready to fly! in essence, this is your radio with a
RTF plane. I think receiver radio set-ups are going to be a huge hit!

Of course there are lots of other wonderful planes available to help the
new pilot get started. The Gentle Lady is legendary for getting new
pilots into the air. I won't list them all. I focused on the Spirit and the
Easy Glider because the are very good and are packaged in a way that
allows you to very quickly and very easily get into the air. If you love
kits, or want an ARF, these and other planes are readily available.


RADIOS

If you decide to buy a radio, I would recommend at least three channels
for the R/E gliders so you can add spoilers later. They cost as little as
$60 including the servos and receiver needed to complete a kit or ARF.
There are lots of choices in 3 channel sailplanes, often referred to as RES
planes. RES stands for rudder, elevator and spoilers.

The Spirit and the Gentle lady mentioned above are 3 and two channels
respectively. There are competition RES sailplanes that cost over $700,
so this class of sailplanes is not just for beginners.

The Easy Glider requires a 4 channel radio, but if you have the budget, I
would recommend a computer radio with 6 or more channels, to open more
options for the future. These start at around $160 including servos and
receiver. The Futaba 6 EXAS or the 7C, the Hitec Optic 6, the JR 6102
and the Airtonics RD8000 are examples. These are not "true" sailplane
radios, but for $150-$300, including servos and receiver, you have a radio
that has several model memories so you can program several planes. You can
fly a full house sailplane, including ailerons, rudder, elevator and flaps,
and have some computer assisted mixes to help you.

Of course you can spend over $500 to get a good sailplane radio, so budget
will dictate what you get. The message is that you can get started for
very little money and invest when you have the money and when your ambitions
grow.


TRIMMING YOUR NEW PLANE

Even the RTF packages will need some adjustment, balancing and trimming,
so be prepared to do a little trimming and balancing. Read the manual that
comes with your plane

If you can spare $25, I highly recommend this video to help you with your
set-up of your glider.

Performance Tuning for Gliders
http://www.radiocarbonart.com/Pages/perftunemain.html
There is a review of the video here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=5010

This is a fantastic video that everyone should get! It is from Radio Carbon
Art, a company that makes RC Soaring videos. I have several of
them and they are all excellent.

All I can say is that this may be the best $25 you could ever spend, if you
enjoy flying gliders. It is so full of valuable information and simple tips
that, having seen it, I ordered my own copy. He talks about how
tuning will impact both thermal duration and slope soaring gliders.

You might think, from the title, that this is about racing or competition,
but it isn't. He takes a common ARF, a Spirit Select 2M, and takes the
plane through a series of steps to get it to fly its best. He tells you how
it flew when first assembled, what he found that could be tuned, and then
does
it.

If you don't have someone to help you set-up your plane, get this video.


LAUNCHING

If you go with a pure glider, you will need some way to launch
your glider. You can get a glider with an electric motor, but I prefer the
pure types which I refer to as sailplanes. You usually launch these with a
hi-start or a winch.

Almost everyone starts with a hi-start because they cost under $100, they
are small, and they easy to transport and store. You can enjoy a lifetime
of lift hunting with a hi-start.

Personally I find hi-start launches a blast. The plane goes up like a jet
launched off of a carrier. When it leaves the end of the launch, it just
floats off the line like a sailboat on the ocean. Or you can "zoom" off the
end and gain even more height.

What is a Hi-Start
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~learmont/HiStart.html

Rather than go into detail here, let me refer you to a couple of
article on hi-starts and learning to launch your sailplane.

Learning to use a hi-start
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=216
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155353


LEARNING TO THERMAL

A thermal is a column of warm rising air that occurs when one section of the
ground warms faster then other sections. As the air raises it draws in
more air. Think of a very slow moving tornado. Not exactly
correct but close enough for first approximation.

What do thermals look like?
http://www.flyaboveall.com/mountainp...rmalclinic.htm

Here is a great video on thermals. I highly recommend it!

The Secrets of Thermal Soaring
http://www.radiocarbonart.com/Pages/...ermalmain.html

Once you have your glider trimmed and you are the master of the
hi-start, you will find thermal hunting both challenging and rewarding.


COMPETITION and the EASTERN SOARING LEAGUE

You may have no interest today in flying in sailplane competitions,
but let me tell you that they are fun! You don't have to be a master
flyer. I flew my first ESL competition after only a few months of soaring.
I entered with a 2 meter wood sailplane. I had such a good time I
was hooked forever and I made some great friends.

When you are ready, the Eastern Soaring League sponsors thermal
duration contests up and down the East coast. Working with local
clubs, we help new flyers get into the fun and comradely of contest
flying. And there is no better way to improve your skills than by working
with more experienced pilots. So when you are ready to get REALLY
GOOD, the Eastern Soaring League will be here to help you advance.


SUMMARY

Sailplanes and gliders are just pure fun to fly. You can start with kits,
ARFs, receiver ready or RTFs as I did. For about $200 you can be
in the air, hunting for thermals and having a great time. No fuel to buy
or clean off. The only battery you need is the ones in your transmitter
and your receiver. Flights can range from 2 minutes to many hours. It
all depends on how good a hunter you are. Every flight is an adventure!



Sailplanes are Wonderful!
http://www.*********.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5356

Give 'em a try. If you have questions, ask. Others
helped me. I am happy to help you.


Old 08-13-2006, 08:34 AM
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane

I second the suggestion of the Multiplex Easy Glider. The receiver ready kit is a bargain, check the lowest price you can get on 4 good quality servos. If you have the tools to do it set the wing to horizontal stabilizer incidence to "zero". This requires an incidence meter & a flat level surface & a way to secure the plane level. As it comes stock the stab will have several degrees of down angle requiring lots of down trim on the elevator to keep the nose down. Mine flies best with almost no aileron differential, The ailerons move down about 90% of the amount they move up. This is different than the instructions that come with the plane, but I have found mine to fly much better that way. I also mix in about 30% rudder with aileron movement. Turns are smooth & can be slow or pylon quick with full stick movement. This plane is "almost indestructable". As usual don't ask how I now this.
Old 08-13-2006, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane

I would hook up with a group of local fliers. Thats sort of "the pipeline" if you will, for deals that you wont believe. I just sold a JR-8103 transmitter for $150, 10 memories, heli,sailplane, aircraft modes, can easily handle a six function slope racer. I bought a clean used RnR Genesis thermal duration plane for $300, servos included (flew awesome, btw). Lots of people have that attitude that last years stuff isnt the hot setup anymore and dump their gear, so the idea is to be there to to "help them out". You dont want to buy junk, but there are some amazing deals to be had.

But for now- take the advice you see. The Multplex easy glider flies great too. Get your first season under your belt and get to know the local fliers.
Old 08-23-2006, 04:17 PM
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane

Hey Jay,

If I were you I would get an EPP foam model as your first kit. A really great model to learn with is the DAW I-26 2 meter. One of the BEST things about this kit is it is made from EPP foam. It will bounce when you crash (and you WILL crash :-) which allows you to spend more time flying then rebuilding.

Dave's Aircraft Works (DAW) went out of business a while ago but SkyKing has permission to start production on some of the DAW kits. You can check them out here.

Dave Garwood even shows you how to make it into a two piece wing with removable tail so it's easy to travel with. Jim Porter also shows how to modify for a 2 piece plug on wing and nose hook for bungee launching. There's a link to the PDF files on the page below.

http://www.skykingrcproducts.com/rcp...26_2meter.html

Good lift,
Dave
Old 08-23-2006, 04:40 PM
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane

EPP is super tough, no doubt about it, but it tends to be heavy.

I love EPP for my slope planes, but for a thermal plane, I think Multiplex has hit the right balance with the Elapor Easy Glider. Not as heavy or rubbery as EPP. Not as brittle or light as as EPS. It is right in the middle. They seem to have the airfoil right too.

25 oz all up on a 1.8 meter wing works well.
Old 08-24-2006, 12:01 AM
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane

here's another model worth checking out....does both aerobatics and acrobatics really well. :-)

I-26 HLG

http://www.skykingrcproducts.com/rcp..._1-26_HLG.html

Good lift,
Dave
Old 09-26-2006, 11:15 AM
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Default RE: Looking for a good first sailplane


ORIGINAL: SnitGTS

Hello all! I'm new to rc flying and I'm currently having a blast learning on my Graupner Tipsy! I would like to expand my inventory of aircraft soon and I'd like to get a sailplane. I'd like something with a decent wingspan but that has the ability to be taken apart for easy storage. Either 3 or 4 channel is fine.

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

Jay

PS: I've heard the term crow breaking before, what is that exactly? Something to do with spoilers?

Since you are a new glider pilot looking for tips, this may be helpful.

The New Glider Pilot's Handbook
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=251

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