DUMB THUM

I AM BUILDING A GENTLE LADY SAILPLANE FOR A CLIMB AND GLIDE EVENT SHOULD I DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT TO IT OR BUILD IT AS IS WE ARE GOING TO USE A 049 NORVEL ON THEM ANY INPUT?

BMatthews

Is it a one design and one engine event? What are the rules? Fuel allotment or run time? Max flight time?

The GL is a lot of airplane if it's a limited run time event that's anywhere under 2 minutes. If it's a one minute run time or some such thing I'd be inclined to go for something like a large'ish 1/2A free flight such as a Starduster X at 50 inches and use a good reciever (for range and interferance reasons) and parkflyer airborne batteries and servos. Almost vertical to vision limits in about 1 minute and a glide like an angel.

But if it's more like the SAM 1/2A Texaco rules then the Lady would be a pretty good choice. Especially with an airfoil upgrade to boost the wind penetration performance.

Come on, spit it out. This is the kind of event that intrests me. Us old free flighters just can't pass up a challenge...

DUMB THUM

YES ITS LIKE A 1/2A WE ARE GOING TO USE ONLY NORVEL .049 AND THE .5 OZ NORVEL TANK AND IT HAS TO BE 2 METERS. BY THE WAY ITS ME THE DURATION FLIGHT GUY i HAVEN'T GAVE UP ON IT BUT WITH WORK AND MY SONS BASKETBALL GAMES I HAVE TO GET MY 1/2A TEXACO READY AND NOW A 2 METER THE DURATION FLIGHT IS ON HOLD AND I SAVED ALL THE POST ON IT SO ALL IS NOT LOST.

BMatthews

Ohhhhhhm yeah..... I remember. This should be good practice and give you some idea of what parameters will be important for the future.

You might try some ground runs on the Norvel to see if you can stretch the run time like with the Texaco engines. Add a few thou of extra head gaskets and try running some mild fuel. Less nitro has longer and leaner running mixtures anyway so you should try to use the least nitro you can get away with anyway. And try a 7x3 prop. I'd say larger like up to an 8x4 if the engine will run consistently but the Lady is a lot of model. Try to build it super light. If it's not a kit but just the plans you're building from then pillage every hobby shop in driving range for the lightest wood you can find. Even to building the fuselage up using 3/16 sq strip longerons and uprights every 2 inches instead of sheet. It would be that much lighter but of course it would only be good for this one kind of flying. If the rules won't allow this then at least pick the lightest wood you can. And be very liberal with the use of the sanding block. If it's on the floor then the engine doesn't need to lift it....

If it's reasonably succesful then a gravity feed tank mounted as an overwing add on would be a simple addition for the duration event.

I sense a planned program here......

DUMB THUM

The rules are a 2meter sail plane a .049 norvel with the .5 oz norvel tank from their its up to the pilot . I got a kit and have the fuselage done planing on cutting holes in it to help the c/g a Friend had to use 600mah batts to get his to balance out so it is tail heavy I have that info on my side. the fuel # on the novel is
7.44 fl oz /hr as the specs call . as it looks now we will have alot of GL in this one seems to be the plane of choice as for me I came across this kit at a swap meet for 20$ it fit the need I hope.

kingbee

In the June '84 Model Builder there was an article by Dan Rutherford entitled "Gentle Lady Lite", wherein he built a super light GL and stuck a hot TD .049 on the nose- sort of an "R/C free flight". He used all the usual FF methods to add lightness, covered it with Jap tissue, and it came out at 18 oz. RTF. With today's radios I suspect it could be made even lighter.


Cheers,
Dave

BMatthews

I found the article. The wings are lightened by using hard balsa in place of the basswood for the center panels and light balsa for the tips. Tips are hollowed. Dihedra break ply joiners were all replaced with (GASP) 1/64 ply (I'd use 1/32). The tail is built as per plan but the solid control surfaces were built up similar to the fixed portions. The fuselage was modified by cutting a long oval slot in the sides and the top and bottom sheet was replaced with some cross pieces like a big rubber free flight. Personally I'd go for a full stick fuselage. 3/16 sq full length longerons with 3/32 by 3/16 uprights behind the wing and 3/32 sheet from the rear spar forward with some flat uprights to fill in the thickness gap and add some stiffness across the grain to the forward sides.

The nose looks long so I suspect he only shortened it enough to allow for the engine. Yes, the engine IS on the nose. The 1/16 ply nose belly was replaced with 1/64 ply. I'd use 1/16 sheet balsa first and the 1/64 ply over that for skid protection.

Covering for this ghost was Jap tissue and dope. No "Moneykote" or Ultracote here if you know what's good for you. If the idea of tissue 'n dope scares you then use one of the super light Parkflyer coverings like Litespan or something equivalent.

This is obviously a model that will never see a high start let alone a winch but for what it is it's a duzzy. The finished weight of the Lite Lady was 19 oz.... or 18 if you believe his other scale.

At that weight you could use the big prop idea for more duration and a slower climb that won't have it out of sight in only a minute.

He did say that it also wouldn't deal with anything other than very gentle breezes. If it's a windy day when you fly then don't try to thermal for more than what will take you behind yourself. I doubt it would fight much more than an 8 to 10 mph wind without loosing too much height.

Keep in touch. I'd love to hear how this all works out.

Al Stein

I would bet money that it can. (Sorry to repeat if you're following the other GL thread, but...) I buit my GL using double thickness fuselage parts plus longerons, added wood to make the spars full depth plus added a lot of sheeting to the leading edges, used standard sized equipment, and still came out at 24oz. Simply ging to light servos would cut over 2 oz from the weight and, obviously, I din't choose the lightest construction methods.... I was interested mostly in deaing with the hi-start and the slope (the idea of braving the slope without harm turned out to be something of an absurdity, but at least the plane did survive!).

It might be fun to define how much can be done while still calling the product a Gentle Lady and then seeing who can build the lightest or the fastest or the something-else-est within those parameters. A good educational competition.

DUMB THUM

WELL I HAVE IT I WILL BUILD BOTH AFTER ALL THE DAY OF THE EVENT YOU FLY WITH THE WEATHER THAT DAY YOU FLY OR WATCH SO WHY NOT HAVE TWO A BACK UP CAN'T HURT AFTER ALL WHATS ONE MORE IN THE HANGER?
THANKS FOR THE IDEAS I WILL KEEP YOU POSTED ON THIS.
BY THE WAY BRUCE FOR MY 1/2A TEXACO I HAVE A KERSWAP WHAT DO YOU THINK? GOOD MODEL? WE FOLLOW THE SAM RULES . DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS ON A GOOD PLANE? I WOULD BE GLAD TO HEAR YOU THOUGHTS.

BMatthews

The Kerswap is a lovely airplane. The only thing I found with Texacos it that when you think you're a mile and a half away you're barely at the other end of the football field. Those small ones just get small way too easy.

1/2A Texaco models are like potatoe chips. They are just so cute that you can't just have one....

Good luck with the Kerswap and post some pics when done.

If you are looking for a next Texaco project what about a cabin type to go with your pylon Kerswap? No lack of good candidates. From the way one buddies Super Quaker is doing you could do a lot worse. Or just a good ol' Buccaneer.

And then there's my fav. The Miss Tiny.... Sorry about the pic being in front of a white door. I've drawn in red lines to show the fin shape and the fuselage top longeron line so you can see better what it looks like. Plans for this one are available from Bill Northrop Plans Service. It used to be from the Model Builder magazine.

Al Stein

The Dallaire Sprotster seems to do well if you want to do a cabin type for 1/2A Texaco. Around here I see a lot of Buzzard Bombshells, too. It seems like the Playboys and Lanzo Bombers are the top competitors in my neighborhood, but that's back to pylon types.

One guy here just built a full size (i.e. .60 size) Goldberg Sailplane and expects great things from it... If it's really good, I'd like to do a 1/2A version, but not till I've seem the big one fly... it's a cigar shaped fuselage with a million stringers and a true eliptical wing planform, so every rib is different. Tough build, so I'm waiting to see how promising the big plane is.

DUMB THUM

BRUCE I LIKE THE LOOKS OF THE TINY WILL HAVE TO LOOK INTO IT I HAVE A BOMBSHELL I USED LIST YEAR NID GOOD I WAS IN THE TOP 10 NOT BAD FOR A 1ST YEAR OLD-TIMER AND1ST YEAR RCER. IT JUST DONT HANG LIKE THE PLAYBOYS IF I GET A REAL GOOD THERMAL ITS OK BUT THOSE PLAYBOYS SEEM TO GET LIFT OFF A ANT FART. I AM SURE I AM DOING A LOT OF THINGS WRONG BUT LIKE YOU SAID WHO CAN HAVE JUST ONE SO ON THE BOARDS ARE A KERSWAP AND BOMBSHELL. I HAVE MY EYE ON A WESTERNER IT HANDLES THE HIGHER WINDS REAL NICE . I AM NEW AT THIS AND LOVE TO HEAR IDEAS THE MORE YOU LISTEN THE MORE YOU LEARN AND TO BEAT THE OLD PRO'S I NEED ALL THE HELP AND PRACTICE I CAN GET. AS FOR THE BUCCANEER I HAVE A 66" STD WITH A MDS .48 FOR THE CLIMB AND GLIDE I GET 19 SECOND RUN TIME BUT ITS NOT TRIMMED OUT VERY GOOD IT CLIMBS LIKE A ROCKET FULL DOWN ELEVATOR AT FULL THROTTLE. BUT NEED WORK AS YOU CAN TELL I HAVE THE OLD TIMER BUG HECK WITH 3 D LOOPS AND SPINS AND ARFS A SET OF PLANES OLDER THAN ME A HAND FULL OF STICKS GLUE AND MAKE IT FLY WHAT CAN BE MORE FUN. I WOULD POST PHOTOS BUT I HAVEN'T FIGURED IT OUT .

DUMB THUM

HERE IS LAST YEARS BOMBSHELL 1/2A 10TH PLACE OUT 18 NOT BAD FOR THE FIRST ONE

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BMatthews

Nice looking model there DT.... BUT IT'S A LITTLE BRIGHT DONCH'A THINK..... Actually hot pink looks pretty good in the air from what I've seen even if it IS hardly nostalgic...

Yeah, there's not many that can hang time like a Playboy. That Super Quaker is one of them though. I'd love to do a 1/2A version one day.

If your Bucaneer is trying to loop over the top uncontrollably it may be thanks to the balance being too far ahead. Many of these free flight types like a more rearward balance thanks to their large stabilizers.

Look up glider dive testing as a method of setting the CG by evaluating the pull out from a shallow dive. A strong pull out is not what you want but neither is a stright ahead dive or a tuck under. The proper balace and decalage settings are when the model pulls out from a dive with a nice long'ish pitch up to normal flight or only one stall. The lessening of the decalage thanks to down elevator trim will do a lot to curb the power on nasties.

THere's about 8 sites with dive test info on them www.google.com and enter "sailplane dive test" without the quotes and read them all. Not all of them make the same sense and one may jump out at you with "THE" answer.

Al-
The Comet/Goldberg Sailplane in it's full size is a real floater. I've seen 1/2 a dozen fly in free flight mode and one with heavy radio/electric and they are all floaters of the first order. I'm not sure if that would translate to 1/2A but I'd like to hope so. You have an eye for the finer things in life I see.... I'd love to do one of these one day also.

But it's not full ellliptical. The center panels are a straight taper with elliptical polyhedral tips.

The only one I can think of that used a 60 and had full elliptical was his Valkyrie. The gigantic V dihedral monster with all the built up ribs.

They DO share one thing in common though. They both use LOTS of parts. Either of these would be a labour of love by any definition.

Al Stein

Well, at least the parts count is reduced a bit by having the straight planform for the middle section... I've often wondered whether an eliptical planform does any good anywhere except for the outer panels.

Meanwhile, I see mention of the Westerner... I know a guy who built one of them too... he said he had a good toime figuring out how to put it together. We're doing as Hayseed this winter, which should be good practice for building crutch type fuselages.

... so many planes and so little time!

MUISER

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Does anyone know about the Midwest Essence 2 mtr sail plane?
I purchased one the other day from Ebay but don't know anything about it. It may make a nice endurance glider. I also purchased an Ikarus Champion glider. I have heard that this little glider does very well in light air also.

BMatthews

Muiser, don't be shy. Repost this as a new thread. It'll get lost in here unless you're lucky and someone finds it. It's a valid new topic for sure.