4m glider
02-22-2003, 05:24 AM
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4m glider
Hey y'all,
What is the general concensus on the minimal requirements for aerotowing a 4-meter glider? I'm in the middle to scratch building one, and was curious what you all would have to say on the subject. Thanks up front...
nghthwk
What is the general concensus on the minimal requirements for aerotowing a 4-meter glider? I'm in the middle to scratch building one, and was curious what you all would have to say on the subject. Thanks up front...
nghthwk
02-22-2003, 12:46 PM
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nghthwk,
4m sailplanes are a perfect size for aerotow. They will tow behind any tug and you can also winch them up easily. You should get it finished up and come to our event in June, JR Aerotow. We welcome all sailplanes and you will see pilots from all over the US and maybe event some guys coming over from Europe.
regards,
John Diniz
4m sailplanes are a perfect size for aerotow. They will tow behind any tug and you can also winch them up easily. You should get it finished up and come to our event in June, JR Aerotow. We welcome all sailplanes and you will see pilots from all over the US and maybe event some guys coming over from Europe.
regards,
John Diniz
02-22-2003, 03:47 PM
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I suppose I wasn't clear on asking my question...
I've flown gliders before, and have stepped up into scratch-building a 4-meter... But, all I have done is slope and ridge soaring. What I guess I'm asking for is- what size airplane would be a suitable "tug" for a 4-meter glider? Specifically, what size motor would be required? as well as a wing span/area requirements...
John,
What are the 'when/where' concerning your JR Aerotow event? Sounds interesting and worth consideration in attending. Thanks.
nghthwk
I've flown gliders before, and have stepped up into scratch-building a 4-meter... But, all I have done is slope and ridge soaring. What I guess I'm asking for is- what size airplane would be a suitable "tug" for a 4-meter glider? Specifically, what size motor would be required? as well as a wing span/area requirements...
John,
What are the 'when/where' concerning your JR Aerotow event? Sounds interesting and worth consideration in attending. Thanks.
nghthwk
02-22-2003, 07:27 PM
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4m glider
To tow a four meter glider, briefly, depending on pilot skill, anything from a 2 stroke 1.08 on a beefed up Senior Telemaster to a moderatly power ful G-45- G-62 powered tug.
I have a good article on what is required on my web page
HTTP://www.scalesoaring.net
http://www.scalesoaring.net/tips.html
Go to the Scale Soaring page link, and click on Tech Tips in the left margin. Planes are described in a general way as to attributes. Generally excess power, a stable design, and rugged construction are good attributes.
I have a PDF file link to the JR aerotow on my events calender plus other aerotow events around the country.
http://www.scalesoaring.net/EVENTS.HTM
JD
I have a good article on what is required on my web page
HTTP://www.scalesoaring.net
http://www.scalesoaring.net/tips.html
Go to the Scale Soaring page link, and click on Tech Tips in the left margin. Planes are described in a general way as to attributes. Generally excess power, a stable design, and rugged construction are good attributes.
I have a PDF file link to the JR aerotow on my events calender plus other aerotow events around the country.
http://www.scalesoaring.net/EVENTS.HTM
JD
02-22-2003, 08:31 PM
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4m glider
I had my very first tows last season with my Multiplex ASH26 ( 4m), behind a Telemaster. I don't know exactly what kind of engine the telemaster had, all I know is that is was a OS 4-stroke.
Anyway, it towed the 12 lb ASH with ease.
To the tow itself : We launched with approx 1/4 inch flaps deployed on the ASH, and after that it was only a matter of keeping the wings level, and letting the tug do its work.
Anyway, it towed the 12 lb ASH with ease.
To the tow itself : We launched with approx 1/4 inch flaps deployed on the ASH, and after that it was only a matter of keeping the wings level, and letting the tug do its work.
02-23-2003, 02:31 AM
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Hey John,
I didn't know you were on RCU. Is the weather there as bad as it is here in Illinois? Last week looked promising, but it has gone south (I wish) today. I was over at Pete G's today and he was fiishing the covering on his 8.33m ASH-25. He is also getting the fuse painted this weekend. And of course Pete has the new 165" span Super Cub to finish up. I am about 6 weeks from completeing my Dg-505. any word on the mono-blocks?
I can't wait to get out with Pete and do some towing when the weather breaks. I hope to get to tow up the big ASH with the Huge Super Cub <G>.
See you in June!
The other JD
I didn't know you were on RCU. Is the weather there as bad as it is here in Illinois? Last week looked promising, but it has gone south (I wish) today. I was over at Pete G's today and he was fiishing the covering on his 8.33m ASH-25. He is also getting the fuse painted this weekend. And of course Pete has the new 165" span Super Cub to finish up. I am about 6 weeks from completeing my Dg-505. any word on the mono-blocks?
I can't wait to get out with Pete and do some towing when the weather breaks. I hope to get to tow up the big ASH with the Huge Super Cub <G>.
See you in June!
The other JD
02-23-2003, 12:08 PM
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Yes, I am here, been on RCU for a while but have not posted very often.
Our weather is typical winter, I have not flown since Pensacola, and probably won't be able to until March if we are lucky. Bummer.
Those big ASH's are big floaters, and are awsome to watch in the air. I'll be curious as to how the mamoth tug works for him. Sometimes the really big tugs are like kites and are a handfull in wind, and rather slow, but I'm sure Peter will do alright.
Should be majestic to see those two aircraft towing.
JD
Our weather is typical winter, I have not flown since Pensacola, and probably won't be able to until March if we are lucky. Bummer.
Those big ASH's are big floaters, and are awsome to watch in the air. I'll be curious as to how the mamoth tug works for him. Sometimes the really big tugs are like kites and are a handfull in wind, and rather slow, but I'm sure Peter will do alright.
Should be majestic to see those two aircraft towing.
JD
02-24-2003, 05:13 PM
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What kind of sailplane do you mean by "4m"? My 15-16lb Minimoa (2 1/3" thick root depth) is going to be much more difficult on a tug than a friend's 4m Nimbus 4 (maybe 60 oz) would have been.
02-24-2003, 05:39 PM
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SoarNeck,
Down in Pensacola we towed up a 26lb DG 800 with a Hangar 9 Taylorcraft with a ZDZ 40 gas engine. Granted the tow pilot was Peter Goldsmith of TOC fame.
A gas 40-45cc towplane with 80" wingspan is plenty for a 16-20lb sailplane, just takes longer to get to altitude. More power = faster climb to release.
John
Down in Pensacola we towed up a 26lb DG 800 with a Hangar 9 Taylorcraft with a ZDZ 40 gas engine. Granted the tow pilot was Peter Goldsmith of TOC fame.
A gas 40-45cc towplane with 80" wingspan is plenty for a 16-20lb sailplane, just takes longer to get to altitude. More power = faster climb to release.
John
02-25-2003, 01:17 PM
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Soarneck brings up a good point...
All gliders are not created equal.
I have towed 40 % Foxes that are comparitivly slippery, and 40% Minimoas that are more like trying to tow up an open umbrella.
The minimoa has one speed, slow, no matter how fast you try to tow it it will just try to climb instead of going faster. The trick is to fly the tug within the the speed envelope of the sailplane. Caution must always be used with regards to the strength of a vintage type airframe. I often will drop flaps 10 degrees on a powerful tug when yanking up a smallish vintage ship, or for inexperienced pilots with smaller modern ships.
Towing a 4 meter modern ship, (what I assumed from the original post) can be done with a lot of variations.
As stated, what is best to do for efficiency is to translate speed into altitude by going up, not cutting throttle. I have towed 4 meter and smaller modern ships nearly straight up tp an altitude of 1200 plus feet in less than a minute. The tug had a 100cc Brison at the time. Sounds dangerous, but actually not. airspeed is relativly low, rate of climb is high.
Some prefer a more scale like tow in all situations, in which case you can as stated by SCATpilot, tow almost any sailplane with any tug, as long as you have the requisite skill.
When I first started towing, we simply did not have an option. We used Senior Telemasters with OS 1.08 two strokes. We towed up to 6 meter 15 plus pound ships this way.
Tow pilots just need to know that there is a throttle, and that every sailplane is a little different. Experience does the rest.
JD
All gliders are not created equal.
I have towed 40 % Foxes that are comparitivly slippery, and 40% Minimoas that are more like trying to tow up an open umbrella.
The minimoa has one speed, slow, no matter how fast you try to tow it it will just try to climb instead of going faster. The trick is to fly the tug within the the speed envelope of the sailplane. Caution must always be used with regards to the strength of a vintage type airframe. I often will drop flaps 10 degrees on a powerful tug when yanking up a smallish vintage ship, or for inexperienced pilots with smaller modern ships.
Towing a 4 meter modern ship, (what I assumed from the original post) can be done with a lot of variations.
As stated, what is best to do for efficiency is to translate speed into altitude by going up, not cutting throttle. I have towed 4 meter and smaller modern ships nearly straight up tp an altitude of 1200 plus feet in less than a minute. The tug had a 100cc Brison at the time. Sounds dangerous, but actually not. airspeed is relativly low, rate of climb is high.
Some prefer a more scale like tow in all situations, in which case you can as stated by SCATpilot, tow almost any sailplane with any tug, as long as you have the requisite skill.
When I first started towing, we simply did not have an option. We used Senior Telemasters with OS 1.08 two strokes. We towed up to 6 meter 15 plus pound ships this way.
Tow pilots just need to know that there is a throttle, and that every sailplane is a little different. Experience does the rest.
JD
02-25-2003, 02:05 PM
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jb1955,
At the 2002 Oct-Tow-Ber fest John Berlin using a 120cc powered Pegasus (JD's design avail @ Endless Mountain Models website) towed a 5-6m scale sailplane to about 1000ft in under 40 secounds.
The other JD
At the 2002 Oct-Tow-Ber fest John Berlin using a 120cc powered Pegasus (JD's design avail @ Endless Mountain Models website) towed a 5-6m scale sailplane to about 1000ft in under 40 secounds.
The other JD
02-27-2003, 01:33 PM
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Yup, It was pretty cool. John had been towing people strait up all day and this guy (sorry I can't remember his name) said to John, "Lets time this tow and see how fast you can get me up to release". The best part about towing like this is you don't have to worry about any turns, you just go UP!.
JD
JD
06-21-2006, 11:08 AM
#17
RE: 4m glider
John disappeared a while back.
First, it was thought that he was in an accident, or that there was "foul play" of some kind.
Later it turned out, that apparently he decided to leave on his own accord.
As to the reasons why, that's anybody's guess..
Some info here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=Derstine
and here : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=Derstine
First, it was thought that he was in an accident, or that there was "foul play" of some kind.
Later it turned out, that apparently he decided to leave on his own accord.
As to the reasons why, that's anybody's guess..
Some info here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=Derstine
and here : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=Derstine
