aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

How do you prefer to get your glider up in the air?

Hi-Start?

Winch?

Electric Motor? (assuming you have one)

rogerflies

My Feedback: (3)

I started building and using winches while learning to fly gliders. My first winch was powered by a VW generator running as a motor. The drum was made of wood. The whole rig was embarrassingly crude, but it got the job done.

My favorite winch is my Clutch Winch with a Chevy 454 starter motor. I use it for launching my Sagitta XC.

Running a close second is my last Sport Winch with a Chevy 350 motor. See the photo. It's got a divided drum with a storage area for extra line. I'm sorry I didn't play with it more before I sold it.

I've only used a high start a couple times and thought it was too much work for too little launch height.

In my opinion, electric sailplanes (except the latest high tech versions) are a cruel joke. None of them I've seen would thermal better than my 135", 25 pound, 17 ounce per square foot, Spacewalker with the engine off.

Roger

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

I have only recently gotten involved in RC planes. Currently I have an Aerobird, but the club I joined has a lot of gliders. They have two winches which clearly do a great job sending these planes skyward.

Monday I saw my first hi-start launch. I was amazed at how well the plane went up. And, I have to admit, there was a certain grace to the launch. Perhaps because it wasn't quite as fast, or because it was silent. I really liked it.

Many are moving to electrics for ease of use. Clearly a winch is a significant cost an requires some set-up time. A hi-start is much lest costly, but still requires some set-up. The electrics just go up.

If properly balanced, is there any reason why an electric powered glider can't thermal as well, or almost as well as a non-powered glider. Does the prop add that much drag? Clearly the plane will be heavier.

But overall I am interested in the prefered launch method by glider/sailplane pilots and why they prefer that method.

rogerflies

My Feedback: (3)

I think what ruins most electric sailplanes on the market is that they are adapted from the manufacturers non-powered versions. The wing for the non-powered version must be strong enough for a winch or high start launch. It's considerably heavier than it would need to be for self-launching. The extra weight in the wing, plus the weight of the battery, is enough to ruin the thermaling ability.

The drag of a folding propeller probably isn't much of a factor at thermaling speeds.

Roger

MTT

My Feedback: (8)

My preferred methods are electric-assist, and aerotowing for my scale ships.

As to Rogerflies statement, that about what "ruins" electric saillanes, I don't quite agree.
I think there are lots of e-sailplanes out there, which were designed to be just that, like the Silent Dream series from FVK, for example.

And even if your e-sailplane is the e-powered version of a pure sailplane, the weight of the electric drivetrain doesn' t "ruin" it.

My 2 e-powered sailplanes are a CHK Cumulus e, and a Multiplex Alpina, which I converted myself.
The Cumulus with the e-drive has a wing loading of 11.7 oz/sqft, and is a real "thermal sniffer". In its unpowered version it would have a wing loading of 8.07 oz/sqft.

The Alpina, on the other hand had a wing loading of 16 oz/sqft before I installed the electric drive, and now has 19.5 oz/sqft.
Of course, the Alpina is no floater, but on a 4 m sailplane with 1250 sq.in. wing area, you can get away with that kind of wing loading.

Michael

BillHarris

It depends. Add-on electrics may not be optimum for a given sailplane, but if it is designed with electric in mind it can be a good flying bird.

Check out the Allegro E-Lite at the CRRC site:

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articl...egrolite2m.htm

Although you do have considerable weight overhead with electrics, they can be enjoyable. The big plus to an electric sailplane is that you can go out to a modest field and without having to lug around a highstart or winch you can get airborne and get some quality time in hunting and playing with thermals.

SST

My Feedback: (2)

Well, I may be labeled as a heretic, but I've always used a small glow motor in the nose...Lots lighter than electric (cheaper, too), and usually balances the plane without the addition of lead that most 2m planes seem to require, so overall weight usually doesn't suffer much. I just nose mount them 'cause I don't like the looks of a power pod, and can cowl them in.

BMatthews

Everything you say is true......

But the oil covering a "glider"?...... (shift scenes to Marlon Brando in Apocolypse Now)..... The Horror.... the horror.....



If I've got the room I'm all for the high start. Otherwise I like the nose mounted electrics. My 2M electric is well over 10 years old and still looks like new.

R. Carver

If I'm out at the club with a couple of extra hands, I prefer the winch. Nothing beats a great zoom that keeps going, and going, and going....

If there's no one else out, I'll throw my handlaunch up.

I hate hi-starts. Too much work for not enough launch.

I don't care for electric sailplanes, I don't know why really...I think a big heavy motor pack just kinda turns me off, ya know? The new Li-Poly packs look really promising as far as where battery technology is heading (I use them a lot on my indoor planes), and it might not be too long before somebody comes out with a battery we could use in high-current draw applications that doesn't weigh a ton, can be quick charged, and doesn't cost more than my truck.

and an I.C. engine on the nose? Well, that's just heresy!

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Hand launch. I did't think about that one. I don't know much about hand launch gliders. Are they like other gliders?

BMatthews

I've seen a local flyer that could launch his 130 inch span unlimited up to about 30 feet. From there he'd try to core some low altitude lift and about 1/2 the time he would greatly extend the normal time and about 1 in 30 would "catch" and he'd climb to about 100 to 150 feet and then bail to a landing and do it all over again.

So handlaunch gliders CAN be any size. But most of the time they are about 1 1/2 meters (60 inches). But until you're good at working lift it could easily be a frustrating way to fly gliders.

I'd say stick to higher launch methods for the first while. When you catch thermals on more than 1/2 your flights and manage to catch a couple at under 50 feet and ride them up again THEN it's time to think about a handlaunch.

MTT

My Feedback: (8)

To everybody his own, of course, but for me nothing beats an electric sailplane, when it comes to convenience :

You don't depend on anybody, don't have to lug around and set up the winch, etc. As long as you maintain your batteries ready, your set to go at a moments notice.
Until 2 seasons ago, I also was sceptic about electric assisted sailplanes, but now that I am into my second season with my 2 electrics, I am a convert !


Of course, I like aerotowing even more, but then again, you depend on somebody else.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Do you guys have any specific gliders that you might recommend for a new glider flyer?

Right now I am flying an Aerobird, a three channel electric park flyer. This is my first plane and I am doing very well with it. I like it a lot.
http://www1.wildhobbies.com/news/def...&articleid=853

I will likely want an electric glider that can also be hi-start or winch launched as I want to learn how to do them as well. Even if I just use the hi-start to get the plane up and then climb with the motor, I want to be able to use a hi-start when the winch is not around. Our field is 1000X1600, so we have the room.

I will want a full house plane, probably 2 meter class, and probably a V tail because they survive grass landings better than a standard tail. We land on grass at my field, no runway. From what I read, a polyhedral wing seems to be the way to go.

Rudder, Elevator, Ailerons/flaperons and perhaps a spoiler. Sport and perhaps light local fun competition. Nothing serious. Preferably under $300 and under $200 would be even better. An ARF for sure.

I will most likely buy a computer radio. I am looking at the Futaba 6XAS for the end of this year. I am planning this for the end of the season, maybe Christmas.

BMatthews

WHOA, WHOA..... Too much.....

For poly models you don't need the fancy radios except perhaps for the ruddervator mixing on a V tail. All that other stuff can wait for later.

You WILL need a 4 channel radio if you're going to run an electric model with any glide path control. If you're sure you'll be in the hobby for a long time then one of the simpler computer radios will be super and last for years. I just got an Airtronics RD6000 and it will do everything that I need for even a fairly serious contest glider.

For now I'd get an electric glider and set it up with spoilers that you activate with a sideways use of the left stick rudder control. Use the right stick for the actual rudder and elevator.

And if you can find a mid stab type design these survive grass fields just fine. It just needs to be a few inches up to avoid the worst of it.

For pure glider use you'll want to pull off the prop and replace it with a "closed" spinner. Also I'd set up a conventional battery to replace the motor flight pack that you use with the motor. Just leave the speed control disconnected when using the normal battery. I'm assuming a BEC controller of course. If you elect to run separate batteries then just ignore this part.

Save all the ailerons and flaps for your second or third model. You've got SO much to learn and enjoy about catching thermals. It really is one area of modelling that's always new each and every day. It's a lot like fishing in that respect.

rogerflies

My Feedback: (3)

My experience with electric gliders is limited, so I'm really curious about your suggestion:

"For now I'd get an electric glider and set it up with spoilers that you activate with a sideways use of the left stick rudder control. Use the right stick for the actual rudder and elevator."

How will you do this? Do you have to hold the stick all the way to the left for the spoilers to be closed and all the way to the right for them to be deployed? That leaves the spoilers half deployed if you take your hand off the control, which is spring-loaded to the center.

That doesn't sound very convenient, but I don't see another option, even with a more expensive radio.

Roger

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

BMatthews,

Good advise.

So if I understand, you suggest a RES electric for a first glider. While the Futaba 6AS might be overkill, so you see any problem with it?

Can you sugges a glider or, perhaps a couple of gliders that would make sense for me? Remember I will be looking for this at the end of the season.

I will have 6-7 months on a 3 channel park flyer that, my glider friends tell me, glides nicely and should be able to thermal, so I will get some related practice if they are right.

Other than cost, what is the concern about a full house plane?

My friend just went from a Firebird XL to a 4 channel to a Multiplex alphajr.
http://www.multiplexrc.com/alphajr.htm

What would be your thoughts on something like this?