Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
05-06-2010, 03:52 AM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Walnut Creek,
CA
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
I was wondering if I could benefit from your experience. Today I flew the Easy Glider Pro again. My EGP has a tendency to want to pitch up. As it is now, with the battery installed, its almost nose heavy. But in flight it wants to pitch up, especially with any motor power above 1/4 throttle.
I mechanically adjusted elevator so it has about 2mm Down. This helped, but still I had to input 68 points down trim on the radio. It kinda wants to fly with its nose Up. And of course with the motor powered on, it climbs and pitches up to a 45 degree nose up attitude, and if I keep the power on, it goes vertical to the point of wanting to fall on its back... So, I have to keep a consistent down pressure on the elevator stick !!
This just doesn't seem like a well trimmed airplane. What can I try to correct this?
Maybe to program the radio to raise the Ailerons 1-2 mm ?
Cheers!!
I mechanically adjusted elevator so it has about 2mm Down. This helped, but still I had to input 68 points down trim on the radio. It kinda wants to fly with its nose Up. And of course with the motor powered on, it climbs and pitches up to a 45 degree nose up attitude, and if I keep the power on, it goes vertical to the point of wanting to fall on its back... So, I have to keep a consistent down pressure on the elevator stick !!
This just doesn't seem like a well trimmed airplane. What can I try to correct this?
Maybe to program the radio to raise the Ailerons 1-2 mm ?
Cheers!!
05-06-2010, 07:37 AM
#2
RE: Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
ORIGINAL: smooth3D
I was wondering if I could benefit from your experience. Today I flew the Easy Glider Pro again. My EGP has a tendency to want to pitch up. As it is now, with the battery installed, its almost nose heavy. But in flight it wants to pitch up, especially with any motor power above 1/4 throttle.
I mechanically adjusted elevator so it has about 2mm Down. This helped, but still I had to input 68 points down trim on the radio. It kinda wants to fly with its nose Up. And of course with the motor powered on, it climbs and pitches up to a 45 degree nose up attitude, and if I keep the power on, it goes vertical to the point of wanting to fall on its back... So, I have to keep a consistent down pressure on the elevator stick !!
This just doesn't seem like a well trimmed airplane. What can I try to correct this?
Maybe to program the radio to raise the Ailerons 1-2 mm ?
Cheers!!
I was wondering if I could benefit from your experience. Today I flew the Easy Glider Pro again. My EGP has a tendency to want to pitch up. As it is now, with the battery installed, its almost nose heavy. But in flight it wants to pitch up, especially with any motor power above 1/4 throttle.
I mechanically adjusted elevator so it has about 2mm Down. This helped, but still I had to input 68 points down trim on the radio. It kinda wants to fly with its nose Up. And of course with the motor powered on, it climbs and pitches up to a 45 degree nose up attitude, and if I keep the power on, it goes vertical to the point of wanting to fall on its back... So, I have to keep a consistent down pressure on the elevator stick !!
This just doesn't seem like a well trimmed airplane. What can I try to correct this?
Maybe to program the radio to raise the Ailerons 1-2 mm ?
Cheers!!
Only one thing can cause this. Too much up elevator or too much up angle in the h-stab which gives the effect of up elevator.
If you have 2mm of down trimmed in, where the elevator is actually angled below the stab, then your h-stab is not properly set and has to be removed and reset.
As for climb under power, that can be caused by the same issue or it can be due to the angle of the motor. But I would focus on the glide performance first. It would seem you need to reset your h-stab.
05-06-2010, 03:48 PM
#3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Walnut Creek,
CA
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
It does not do a porpoise move.. When the motor is Off it flies straight. Maybe with very little down needed from time to time, and setting up for landing.
However, when I power-on the motor to full throttle, it goes straight up starting with a 45 degree angle climb and finally to vertical. This is the ARF model so the motor mount was glued to the inside the fuse from the factory. The motor does have a noticeable down trust built in.
I've inspected the installation of the stab to the fuse. Everything is well glued to the contour of the cradle built into the fuse for the stab & rudder assembly !! Is it possible that the thickness of the CA has pushed the stab up just enough to induce an Incidence error ? !!
I hope I don't have to remove the stab / rudder assembly, as both are pretty well CAed on !!! USe CA de-bonder? that would still leave a bit of mess behind and might make worst after gluing it Any ideas here?
Little disappointed.. this is what I get for buying a Foamie [
]
However, when I power-on the motor to full throttle, it goes straight up starting with a 45 degree angle climb and finally to vertical. This is the ARF model so the motor mount was glued to the inside the fuse from the factory. The motor does have a noticeable down trust built in.
I've inspected the installation of the stab to the fuse. Everything is well glued to the contour of the cradle built into the fuse for the stab & rudder assembly !! Is it possible that the thickness of the CA has pushed the stab up just enough to induce an Incidence error ? !!
I hope I don't have to remove the stab / rudder assembly, as both are pretty well CAed on !!! USe CA de-bonder? that would still leave a bit of mess behind and might make worst after gluing it Any ideas here?
Little disappointed.. this is what I get for buying a Foamie [
]
05-06-2010, 04:28 PM
#4
RE: Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
if it gliders fine, then there is no problem.
It is an e-glder, not an airplane, so if it likes to climb on full throttle, then either mixin a little down or just push it while you climb.
In addition to my e-glider electric I have a Radian. The Radian climbs so hard under throttle that it can actually loop back over. But it flies great with power off. I could reset the motor but I just push a little down when I am at high throttle settings. That lasts 30 seconds, then it is power off and smooth soaring.
I suggest you do the same with your EG.
It is an e-glder, not an airplane, so if it likes to climb on full throttle, then either mixin a little down or just push it while you climb.
In addition to my e-glider electric I have a Radian. The Radian climbs so hard under throttle that it can actually loop back over. But it flies great with power off. I could reset the motor but I just push a little down when I am at high throttle settings. That lasts 30 seconds, then it is power off and smooth soaring.
I suggest you do the same with your EG.
05-07-2010, 03:04 AM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Walnut Creek,
CA
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
Thank you. I appreciate your point. This is not a pattern ship .... I've reset my expectations, and took a different approach to flying it.
I flew it today, n'got more practice with it. Used up two (2) 2200MAh LiPos. Lots of climbs and launches [8D] Went easy on the Throttle stick, and a bit more down trim. It flew much better than yesterday.
It glides nice, and stays up there a good bit of time. It would stay up longer, if I was better at using the air currents... I can keep it gliding for 5-10 minutes without the motor. As long as I don't get into a hurry, It can stay up there. I used about 1/4+ of motor power to do loops, rolls and reverse cuban eights. Of course very Sloooooooowly, except the Loops
Setup the Flaps in the Flaperon program for Landing mode - with a 5 second Delay, it slides the Ail. Up about 30-35 degrees and some more Down ELEV !! This helps slow it down for landing, but it just ain't all that precise..
Practice continues.....
I flew it today, n'got more practice with it. Used up two (2) 2200MAh LiPos. Lots of climbs and launches [8D] Went easy on the Throttle stick, and a bit more down trim. It flew much better than yesterday.
It glides nice, and stays up there a good bit of time. It would stay up longer, if I was better at using the air currents... I can keep it gliding for 5-10 minutes without the motor. As long as I don't get into a hurry, It can stay up there. I used about 1/4+ of motor power to do loops, rolls and reverse cuban eights. Of course very Sloooooooowly, except the Loops
Setup the Flaps in the Flaperon program for Landing mode - with a 5 second Delay, it slides the Ail. Up about 30-35 degrees and some more Down ELEV !! This helps slow it down for landing, but it just ain't all that precise..
Practice continues.....
05-07-2010, 12:26 PM
#6
RE: Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
> The New Glider Pilot's Handbook
> http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=251
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_47...tm.htm#4798438
> http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=251
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_47...tm.htm#4798438
05-07-2010, 03:30 PM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Walnut Creek,
CA
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
Ed,
Thank you very much for taking the time to send me the information. Good stuff, I'll do some reading.
Cheers!!
Thank you very much for taking the time to send me the information. Good stuff, I'll do some reading.
Cheers!!
05-07-2010, 03:46 PM
#8
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chilliwack, BC, CANADA
Posts: 12,425
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes
on
19 Posts
RE: Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
Smooth3d, double check the balance point to make sure it's in the range. If it is then try moving the balance point back in small increments like 3/16 to 1/4 inch at a time until the balance point is at the rear of the suggested range. As you do this the model will require some additional down trim to fly well in the glide. But by moving the balance back a little and compensating with the elevator trim it will reduce the amount of nose up pitch with the addition of power. It'll also make it less susceptable to speed increases caused by shallow dives such as often occurs going into or coming out of a turn if the elevator isn't coordinated just right with the bank angle. At some point the model will get so balanced and near the neutral point that the model will be what I call "5 click critical". That is where the number of clicks of your elevator trim is only 5 clicks from the model being in a dive to nosing up to a stall. That's more than most folks are willing to tolerate so maybe a "7 click" or "9 click" balance point setting would be more to your likeing. By moving the balance back to such a degree the model needs to be watched and controlled with a gentle but firm hand on the elevator but the model will fly in a much more efficient manner if you can adapt your piloting skills to the model. And trimming to this sharp a setting does make the model a little to a lot more demanding to fly when it's out near the limit of your vision so sneak up on all this in small steps over a few sessions. And don't get too carried away until you're sure you are the master of the model and can fly it at the present balance location with smooth transitions into and out of turns and can do so automatically when it's hard to see the model.
05-10-2010, 08:29 PM
#9
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Boerne,
TX
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
Hey Smooth - This Pitch-up under power is pretty much par for the course when you want a good glider.
Sounds like you have a computer radio - I have a DX7, and one of my mixes is a 10-20% down elevator mix with throttle above 50% - I had to fine-tune this to where I wanted it but on those occasions I want to do a little screaming dive or the like, it comes in very handy.
Sounds like you have a computer radio - I have a DX7, and one of my mixes is a 10-20% down elevator mix with throttle above 50% - I had to fine-tune this to where I wanted it but on those occasions I want to do a little screaming dive or the like, it comes in very handy.
05-11-2010, 05:37 AM
#10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Walnut Creek,
CA
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
Hey Ground, Agreed .. I've been looking at some videos showing launches with high starts. It was a good reminder to see that 45+ degree of nose up is actually desired to gain altitude quickly.
Meanwhile; I have shimmed the motor for an ~1 degree down trust. It has made a drastic difference. It still wants to climb above 1/2 throttle, but does it much more gracefully now. I am experimenting to see which setup I like best. What is odd, is that its nose heavy (@70mm CG), but in flight, with the motor Off it flies the line !! Moving the battery further back to change CG is an issue. Primarily due to the how I've had to velcro things so I can remove the battery relatively easily...
Another thing I've noticed is that if I keep full power for ~5-10 seconds, it wants to roll right, and Full Left Ail doesn't stop it. I have to back off power and give it a bit of time to recover to a straight line. There seems to be some left trust built in... Alternatively, during the progression of the throttle, I'd have to feed in left Ail. / Rudder to minimize or prevent this reaction until I lower the throttle. I am getting to know this glider a bit better, so maybe this is No thing. I don't know.
I am using a JR 9303, and I could work on programing a couple of mixes. Need to do Ail differential too. Not there yet, I just wanted to fly fly fly it. I saw the Demo video on Multiplex site. The guy does rolling circles with the E-Glider Pro. But my setup as is, does not allow for a very responsive Ail.. Either its my thumbs, or I need to tweak the setup. I just hope there is not a hidden tweak in the airframe..
Question: In case of a crash, how do you guys repair ELAPOR foam? Just CA it, or do you apply some glass cloth to re-enforce? or maybe 3M Extreme tape?
-kd
Meanwhile; I have shimmed the motor for an ~1 degree down trust. It has made a drastic difference. It still wants to climb above 1/2 throttle, but does it much more gracefully now. I am experimenting to see which setup I like best. What is odd, is that its nose heavy (@70mm CG), but in flight, with the motor Off it flies the line !! Moving the battery further back to change CG is an issue. Primarily due to the how I've had to velcro things so I can remove the battery relatively easily...
Another thing I've noticed is that if I keep full power for ~5-10 seconds, it wants to roll right, and Full Left Ail doesn't stop it. I have to back off power and give it a bit of time to recover to a straight line. There seems to be some left trust built in... Alternatively, during the progression of the throttle, I'd have to feed in left Ail. / Rudder to minimize or prevent this reaction until I lower the throttle. I am getting to know this glider a bit better, so maybe this is No thing. I don't know.
I am using a JR 9303, and I could work on programing a couple of mixes. Need to do Ail differential too. Not there yet, I just wanted to fly fly fly it. I saw the Demo video on Multiplex site. The guy does rolling circles with the E-Glider Pro. But my setup as is, does not allow for a very responsive Ail.. Either its my thumbs, or I need to tweak the setup. I just hope there is not a hidden tweak in the airframe..
Question: In case of a crash, how do you guys repair ELAPOR foam? Just CA it, or do you apply some glass cloth to re-enforce? or maybe 3M Extreme tape?
-kd
05-11-2010, 08:56 AM
#11
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Boerne,
TX
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Easy Glider Pro - Pitches Up ?
ORIGINAL: smooth3D
Hey Ground, Agreed .. I've been looking at some videos showing launches with high starts. It was a good reminder to see that 45+ degree of nose up is actually desired to gain altitude quickly.
Meanwhile; I have shimmed the motor for an ~1 degree down trust. It has made a drastic difference. It still wants to climb above 1/2 throttle, but does it much more gracefully now. I am experimenting to see which setup I like best. What is odd, is that its nose heavy (@70mm CG), but in flight, with the motor Off it flies the line !! Moving the battery further back to change CG is an issue. Primarily due to the how I've had to velcro things so I can remove the battery relatively easily...
Another thing I've noticed is that if I keep full power for ~5-10 seconds, it wants to roll right, and Full Left Ail doesn't stop it. I have to back off power and give it a bit of time to recover to a straight line. There seems to be some left trust built in... Alternatively, during the progression of the throttle, I'd have to feed in left Ail. / Rudder to minimize or prevent this reaction until I lower the throttle. I am getting to know this glider a bit better, so maybe this is No thing. I don't know.
I am using a JR 9303, and I could work on programing a couple of mixes. Need to do Ail differential too. Not there yet, I just wanted to fly fly fly it. I saw the Demo video on Multiplex site. The guy does rolling circles with the E-Glider Pro. But my setup as is, does not allow for a very responsive Ail.. Either its my thumbs, or I need to tweak the setup. I just hope there is not a hidden tweak in the airframe..
Question: In case of a crash, how do you guys repair ELAPOR foam? Just CA it, or do you apply some glass cloth to re-enforce? or maybe 3M Extreme tape?
-kd
Hey Ground, Agreed .. I've been looking at some videos showing launches with high starts. It was a good reminder to see that 45+ degree of nose up is actually desired to gain altitude quickly.
Meanwhile; I have shimmed the motor for an ~1 degree down trust. It has made a drastic difference. It still wants to climb above 1/2 throttle, but does it much more gracefully now. I am experimenting to see which setup I like best. What is odd, is that its nose heavy (@70mm CG), but in flight, with the motor Off it flies the line !! Moving the battery further back to change CG is an issue. Primarily due to the how I've had to velcro things so I can remove the battery relatively easily...
Another thing I've noticed is that if I keep full power for ~5-10 seconds, it wants to roll right, and Full Left Ail doesn't stop it. I have to back off power and give it a bit of time to recover to a straight line. There seems to be some left trust built in... Alternatively, during the progression of the throttle, I'd have to feed in left Ail. / Rudder to minimize or prevent this reaction until I lower the throttle. I am getting to know this glider a bit better, so maybe this is No thing. I don't know.
I am using a JR 9303, and I could work on programing a couple of mixes. Need to do Ail differential too. Not there yet, I just wanted to fly fly fly it. I saw the Demo video on Multiplex site. The guy does rolling circles with the E-Glider Pro. But my setup as is, does not allow for a very responsive Ail.. Either its my thumbs, or I need to tweak the setup. I just hope there is not a hidden tweak in the airframe..
Question: In case of a crash, how do you guys repair ELAPOR foam? Just CA it, or do you apply some glass cloth to re-enforce? or maybe 3M Extreme tape?
-kd
Interesting observations. I have yet to put my EGP through its paces but I will watch for these kinds of things when I do. RE: the right roll - I was always a bit concerned about how little emphasis the manual puts on aligning the vertical stab before securing it with CA - seems like even the slightest deviation could cause odd behavior in certain moments, such as roll? I dunno, just speculating. RE: Aileron Diff. - do you see a lot of adverse yaw, is that why you would dial that in? I noticed a bit of it last time I flew the EGP but not much.
As far as repairs go - My Experience with Elapor / Multiplex' take on EPO is that CA is king - but if it is a structural break I tend to try and give it as much strength as possible - CAin'g all the parts where then need to be and then using [link=http://www.thaisilks.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=11&osCsid=iekiccpa2fgm584rnk5kmd8ti5]Habotai 5mm Silk[/link] and Minwax WBPU to do either an outer or inner 'lathing' as it were. If it a true catastrophe I might employ lightweight spackle to regain a curve... but for relatively clean breaks I'd have to say that CA with a good kicker works just fine.
