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Beginner, question about changing controls

Old 12-04-2012, 12:25 PM
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kettlecorn
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Default Beginner, question about changing controls

I'm a beginner looking into maybe trying out RC helicopters. Don't have any experience with rc cars either though I'm getting one in a few days. Is there a sticky somewhere like in the RC cars section of this forum where it explains the various types and models of helicopters and the parts, etc.? I watched some youtube videos and know there are a few, coaxial and more channels means its more stable and can manuever much better but is harder to learn due to the variety in movement directions.

I'd like to ask about which type of heli a beginner should start off on. I read the thread below called "my 1st heli" and learned quite a few things and people were suggesting Blade MCPX. But it's a bit pricey at $200 for a "Beginner's" helicopter. Maybe it's just me but when I pick up new hobbies and things, I always research the various "tiers" of difficulty and what I would want to be able to do and try to start off somewhere a little bit more challenging if it means it's closer to my "goal". For example if I ultimately want to fly a 6 channel helicopter, I might get a 4 channel or something harder than most beginner helicopters. Kind of like just being throw in the semi deep end of the pool. It's much harder but I enjoy steep learning curves when it comes to learning anything new. Plus maybe I'm mistaken here but if I were to get bored of the heli due to it being a "beginner's model" and priced at $200, I can see myself just not getting into it too much. Whereas something challenging with goals like learning how to land on a spot properly and doing simple manuevers is more engaging and addicting for me personally.

1) So with that said, do you think a MCPX or coaxial model is still right for me? I'm a pretty fast learner and I do not want something that I will get good at within a few hours.

2) I am also thinking of there are some kind of simulation programs that I can learn beginner models there and also try the various "difficulties" to see which one I am willing to take risk on and invest (due to crashes and $). Is there any recommendations for these types of programs? I know know of one which is an Android application but it's kind of weird using the touch screen to apply controls. It's however, extremely life like.

3) Radio and controls - The radio I usually see is like 2 joysticks and from the very limited experience with the android simulation app, tthe left side up/down is throttle and there's a mix and match form of controlling the helicopter.
Okay i have a question about this. Is this customizable and switchable? Can I move the throttle to the right stick instead of the left?? Are radios programmable like that?

The reason I ask is because if any of you have ever played a game on the xbox console controller where you have to fly things including helicopters, etc. usually throttle up and down will be a trigger button. Left side is up, right side is down or vice versa. Then with the 2 analog sticks, the left side will give you movement, forward and backward movement (which I can see is maybe called nose movement?) and left and right will give you that lean. Then the right stick will give you "view" or "aim" where you can look up, down, left right and I can see how on a heli radio you can use this as the 360 spin move. Left would move the heli clockwise and right would move it counter clockwise. Not sure what Up and down would do.
That just seems more natural to someone like me. is there a way to customize the settings on the radio?



And can you list a few models that may be suited best for my needs? If it's not a beginner model but a litte bit more challenging but also a heli that is closer to the 'goal' I dont mind buying used for $200 which puts the retail price at something like $400+. usually on craigslist.

Any help appreciated.
Old 12-04-2012, 02:43 PM
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Rafael23cc
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls

Long post, and maybe a little confusing. I swear that i think you contradicted yourself in a place or two. I've neven been know for sugar-coating my opinions so if your feelings are easily hurt, stop reading now, ignore my post and catch the advise from somebody else.

For example if I ultimately want to fly a 6 channel helicopter, I might get a 4 channel or something harder than most beginner helicopters. Kind of like just being throw in the semi deep end of the pool. It's much harder but I enjoy steep learning curves when it comes to learning anything new.
But it's a bit pricey at $200 for a "Beginner's" helicopter
Here is the first contradiction. You want a steep learning curve, but think that $200 is pricey. The MCPX is one of the least expensive full house rc helicopters out there. If you want something cheaper, you are looking at coaxial toys. In the world of RC, as with any hobby, you get what you pay for.

Plus maybe I'm mistaken here but if I were to get bored of the heli due to it being a "beginner's model" and priced at $200, I can see myself just not getting into it too much. Whereas something challenging with goals like learning how to land on a spot properly and doing simple manuevers is more engaging and addicting for me personally.
Here is another contradiction. The MCPX is not really a beginners model. Collective Pitch (CP) helicopters are NOT beginners models. But you also say that you like a challenge. My MCPX flies every week, wherever I am. At the office parking lot, at the field, at my house, ect. I have over 20 years of flying experience and I enjoy flying the MCPX around. If you think that wrecking a $200 helicopter is a turn off, let me compare it with my most recent crash. A Hirobo Freya 90 went in last weekend. Blades alone will cost over $120 and I have not started disassembly to check everything that was damaged or broken. You may have picked the wrong hobby.

I am also thinking of there are some kind of simulation programs
There are programs, but the good ones are approximately $200 to buy new. See where I'm going?

Radio and controls
Here is where it gets interesting..... Do not look at this as a video game. It is not. Depending on the radio that you buy (well over $500) you _might_ be able to change the control settings to what you are asking. But why would you want to? OH, Video games. What happens when you need help from an experienced pilot? He will not be able to test fly your helicopter, because you have it set up like a video game. RC controllers used in the United States follow the same convetion as full scale aircraft. Cyclic controls on your right hand, and throttle/collective on your left hand. Real helicopters use this convention. Since we do not use rudder pedals, that function is added to the left hand.

I hope you were able to read thru the entire post. I wish you good luck and strongly suggest that you get in contact with some experienced pilots in your area to help you and guide you in the learning process. Although you say that you can do it, it will be a very frustrating and painful process without external help. RC Helicopters are not toys.

Rafael
Old 12-04-2012, 03:33 PM
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls


ORIGINAL: Rafael23cc

Long post, and maybe a little confusing. I swear that i think you contradicted yourself in a place or two. I've neven been know for sugar-coating my opinions so if your feelings are easily hurt, stop reading now, ignore my post and catch the advise from somebody else.

For example if I ultimately want to fly a 6 channel helicopter, I might get a 4 channel or something harder than most beginner helicopters. Kind of like just being throw in the semi deep end of the pool. It's much harder but I enjoy steep learning curves when it comes to learning anything new.
But it's a bit pricey at $200 for a "Beginner's" helicopter
Here is the first contradiction. You want a steep learning curve, but think that $200 is pricey. The MCPX is one of the least expensive full house rc helicopters out there. If you want something cheaper, you are looking at coaxial toys. In the world of RC, as with any hobby, you get what you pay for.

Plus maybe I'm mistaken here but if I were to get bored of the heli due to it being a "beginner's model" and priced at $200, I can see myself just not getting into it too much. Whereas something challenging with goals like learning how to land on a spot properly and doing simple manuevers is more engaging and addicting for me personally.
Here is another contradiction. The MCPX is not really a beginners model. Collective Pitch (CP) helicopters are NOT beginners models. But you also say that you like a challenge. My MCPX flies every week, wherever I am. At the office parking lot, at the field, at my house, ect. I have over 20 years of flying experience and I enjoy flying the MCPX around. If you think that wrecking a $200 helicopter is a turn off, let me compare it with my most recent crash. A Hirobo Freya 90 went in last weekend. Blades alone will cost over $120 and I have not started disassembly to check everything that was damaged or broken. You may have picked the wrong hobby.

I am also thinking of there are some kind of simulation programs
There are programs, but the good ones are approximately $200 to buy new. See where I'm going?

Radio and controls
Here is where it gets interesting..... Do not look at this as a video game. It is not. Depending on the radio that you buy (well over $500) you _might_ be able to change the control settings to what you are asking. But why would you want to? OH, Video games. What happens when you need help from an experienced pilot? He will not be able to test fly your helicopter, because you have it set up like a video game. RC controllers used in the United States follow the same convetion as full scale aircraft. Cyclic controls on your right hand, and throttle/collective on your left hand. Real helicopters use this convention. Since we do not use rudder pedals, that function is added to the left hand.

I hope you were able to read thru the entire post. I wish you good luck and strongly suggest that you get in contact with some experienced pilots in your area to help you and guide you in the learning process. Although you say that you can do it, it will be a very frustrating and painful process without external help. RC Helicopters are not toys.

Rafael
No offense taken. You told me exactly what I was searching for. I wasn't aware of the pricing range of the helicopter and it looks like to pursue this as a full hobby, it will be an expensive venture. I wasn't against getting the MCPX at all, I was wondering if it was just "too easy" but it looks like it isn't. Which changes my options, the MCPX might do just fine for me. The $200 I want to spend initially was to make sure I get a good amount of time with it and not just "toy grade". It looks like it isn't so that's good.
I wasn't aware that the controls were all universal, I guess that was what i was asking. I wasn't sure if people were changing it to their liking and if it was flashable using a computer program, if people were adding various buttons, etc. Looks like it is not.

Read through everything, was very informative.
Would you recommend the MCPX or is there a cheaper or more beginner model than that to learn? Soething that will give me my money's worth in terms of time spent engaging and challenging me. Going off of what I saw on craigslist and local hobby stores, what about a trex 450? How does that differ in terms of skills, potential $ in a crash, learning curve, etc.? I doubt the trex450 would be a beginners just based on the size but if you could give me a basic layout of how to get there and which models would be good transitions from one another that would help.

Any model names or numbers for a radio that is good for a beginner?

Old 12-05-2012, 08:58 AM
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls

I wasn't aware that the controls were all universal, I guess that was what i was asking. I wasn't sure if people were changing it to their liking and if it was flashable using a computer program, if people were adding various buttons, etc. Looks like it is not.
The basic controls (the two analog sticks) are pretty much "set" here in the US. In other parts of the world, people have grown used to having the controls in different order. here is a diagram of the 4 possible combinations, keep in mind that MODE 2 is the normal in the US. Other modes are popular in other places around the world.



Depending on how much money you want to spend, ($500 to over $3000) then the switches on the top and sides of the radio can be programmed to do almost anything you'd like. There is a radio out there right now that can be programmed with a computer mouse if you plug it into the USB port of the radio. So programming is somewhat flexible but not advisable in the sense that you are thinking.

Soething that will give me my money's worth in terms of time spent engaging and challenging me.
Any Collective pitch (CP) helicopter can be set-up "mild" for training or "wild" for full out aerobatics. If you really want to start with a CP helicopter, get in contact with a local experienced pilot and ask him what he flies. That is the best bet. He will know all the tricks to his particular heli and fast-track you thru the learning process.

It all depends on how much you want to spend. You can spend as little as $200 for a ready to fly mcpx or you can spend over $2000 on a fire breathing 90 or 120 sized nitro heli and then drop another $1200 on a programable radio with plenty of flexibility to do almost anything you want. Set an honest budget for yourself (make sure to include several crashes during the first few months) and the rest of us can steer you in a certain direction.

Any model names or numbers for a radio that is good for a beginner?
Put a number to the budget question above, and you will get plenty of suggestions. I typically do not suggest specific brands or models. based on the fact that I always suggest to find local help as stated above.

Rafael
Old 12-05-2012, 09:41 AM
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls

Rafael is giving you sound advice.

My .02's on the subject is that if you buy a ready to fly mCPX with the transmitter...it will be the best 200 dollars you spend in the hobby.  That is if your main goal is to fly a real hobby grade CP heli.

The mCPX is tough as nails, and when you do break it...almost any hobby shop worth its salt will have a well stocked parts bin for you to buy replacements.  And the replacements are cheap too.  I just replaced the frame on mine and it cost a whopping 7 dollars.

Tail booms with new motor included are roughly 12 or 13 bucks...swash plates are under 10 bucks...blades are cheap...just about everything on them is cheap, minus the "All In One" circuit board.

Once you learn to fly that little heli...you will be able to fly any CP heli out there as the principles are the same...they just get larger.

However, I would pair the purchase of the mCPX with a SIM.  Since you are on a budget...I would rule out Real Flight and Phoenix for now as those are 200+ and 120+ in cost.  If you buy the RTF mcpx it will come with a Spektrum DX4e radio to which you can buy a SIM cable for about 10 bucks.  Put that with the 40 dollar Clear View SIM...you CAN teach yourself to fly.  Granted it will take a longer time doing it alone, but it can be done.  I did it on my own, but it took me quite a while.

Goodluck
Old 12-06-2012, 06:22 PM
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls

I am no expert, nor even a good flyer - still hovering nose out, and working on nose right. But, you could buy the FP mSRx - which is a 4 channel, but a great time. Has the same crash cost of the mCPx, and is cheaper to buy up front. I would spend your extra money on the sim - that will be where you save the most bucks. Think about it, one cost for the sim, and as many crashes as you want - plus you get a chance to fly other helicopters and if you like planes.

Besides the cost of fixing the helicopters - there is a time cost too. Some of the parts on the smaller helicopters are small - I mean SMALL. But it is a great and fun hobby/life, and it will be what you put into it time wise. This is not an easy hobby to start, and keeping motivated to get better and better with just little steps if frustrating, but worth it.

If money is not an issue, buy the mCPx, as it can be set up to fly very easy - like the the mSRx (not that it is easy to fly), but will then turn into a beast when you are ready for it. The best of both worlds in my opinion, but whatever you do BUY THE SIMULATOR - Real Flight or Phoenix are the best out there, from what I read.

Oh, one more thing - invest in a transmitter. That way you can change the learning curve for the one you buy. a spectrum DX6i

check this site out http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/


Old 12-07-2012, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls

Thanks everyone for the help. Regarding the changing controls, I guess there ARE different modes. The "video game' setup or what I am used to is mode 3, which is exactly the opposite of mode 2. The movement on the left and the "turning" or POV on the right. Probably also easier cause I'm left handed.

Anyway I might learn on mode 2.

I just bought a MCPx with a DX7 transmitter. I bought it off a forum member and it comes with extra parts which is good in case of crashes and the radio I figured I would need later on should i upgrade to a trex 450 or something.
I have to say, that website Rchelicopterfun.com has explained EVERYTHING to me. The concepts of flight, the mechanics, etc. It has helped me to understand.

Does anyone have any experience with the trex450 clones or building a 450 yourself? From what I've seen, they go as low as $104 shipped on ebay including transmitter for Trex450 clones and they look okay. Also buying kits and adding parts yourself will run $150-200 compared to buying one for $500+? ZBut then again, I haven't gone this route. Just thought itd be an option in a few months to a few years.



Old 12-07-2012, 06:03 PM
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls



Kettlecorn-

I myself am new to helicopters and have found a ton of information on rchelicopterfun.com.I have been into nitro airplanes for about 10 years now so I can speak from some experience in the RC hobby.I know money is a huge issue for a lot of people but what I would suggest is, buy the best you can afford if you want to enjoy this hobby.I started out on cheap airplanes/ radios and from experience it becomes way more expensive to replace something cheap.
In terms of simulators, I have always used the "RealFight" simulator.Check out www.towerhobbies.com.The base program is about 200 bucks, it comes with all skill level aircraft.I went through about 3 airplanes before I made the investment and purchased the simulator.When used properly, it will get you off the ground and will train you.I would not take any advice/ rely on any cell phone app.I will admit I crashed my first airplane relying on the control defections I saw on an airplane in the video game grand theft auto.(I was in 7th grade so cut me some slack)I found out they weren’t accurate and they were reversed.
Anyway my whole point is the initial startup in the hobby is expensive.Nitro planes for instance, I needed all the electronics, starter, fuel glow starter ext....My helicopter I chose to go electric and I bought the Trex550ev2.With that I needed a new radio, and all the electric stuff; Batteries, charger, and power supply.I chose to buy quality to allow me use it all as my experience and skill level grows, which is everyone’s goal.
Old 12-08-2012, 11:05 PM
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls

If you can afford to go larger than a 450 you'll find it MUCH easier to fly. The jump in stability between a 450 and 500 is probably the biggest out of all the different sizes.
Old 12-09-2012, 12:04 AM
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls


ORIGINAL: flyer2488



Kettlecorn-

I myself am new to helicopters and have found a ton of information on rchelicopterfun.com.I have been into nitro airplanes for about 10 years now so I can speak from some experience in the RC hobby.I know money is a huge issue for a lot of people but what I would suggest is, buy the best you can afford if you want to enjoy this hobby.I started out on cheap airplanes/ radios and from experience it becomes way more expensive to replace something cheap.
In terms of simulators, I have always used the "RealFight" simulator.Check out www.towerhobbies.com.The base program is about 200 bucks, it comes with all skill level aircraft.I went through about 3 airplanes before I made the investment and purchased the simulator.When used properly, it will get you off the ground and will train you.I would not take any advice/ rely on any cell phone app.I will admit I crashed my first airplane relying on the control defections I saw on an airplane in the video game grand theft auto.(I was in 7th grade so cut me some slack)I found out they weren’t accurate and they were reversed.
Anyway my whole point is the initial startup in the hobby is expensive.Nitro planes for instance, I needed all the electronics, starter, fuel glow starter ext....My helicopter I chose to go electric and I bought the Trex550ev2.With that I needed a new radio, and all the electric stuff; Batteries, charger, and power supply.I chose to buy quality to allow me use it all as my experience and skill level grows, which is everyone’s goal.
Thanks. It is very expensive and it's hard to juggle the fine line of too cheap and just right. I try to buy things that will last me and I think the MCPX and the DX7 transmitter will last me a while. From what rchelicoptersfun.com says the radio is more important than the heli and I think I got a pretty good deal with the DX7. I spent more than I had planned but in the long run it'll save me money. I'm also looking on ebay for a cable to hook up my transmitter for Realflight or Phoenix or looking on craigslist for the simulator. Lots of time on the simulator and the MCPx will hopefully prepare me for something bigger. I would get bigger because it may be easier due to the stability (if we're talking all collective pitch) but it just costs more, the risk is higher and I dont have the ability to practice things like hover or minor beginner stuff indoors. Not sure how feasible it is with the MCPx but hopefully i can do a thing here and there.

Old 12-09-2012, 06:49 AM
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls


ORIGINAL: kettlecorn


ORIGINAL: flyer2488



Kettlecorn-

I myself am new to helicopters and have found a ton of information on rchelicopterfun.com. I have been into nitro airplanes for about 10 years now so I can speak from some experience in the RC hobby. I know money is a huge issue for a lot of people but what I would suggest is, buy the best you can afford if you want to enjoy this hobby. I started out on cheap airplanes/ radios and from experience it becomes way more expensive to replace something cheap.
In terms of simulators, I have always used the ''RealFight'' simulator. Check out www.towerhobbies.com. The base program is about 200 bucks, it comes with all skill level aircraft. I went through about 3 airplanes before I made the investment and purchased the simulator. When used properly, it will get you off the ground and will train you. I would not take any advice/ rely on any cell phone app. I will admit I crashed my first airplane relying on the control defections I saw on an airplane in the video game grand theft auto. (I was in 7th grade so cut me some slack) I found out they weren’t accurate and they were reversed.
Anyway my whole point is the initial startup in the hobby is expensive. Nitro planes for instance, I needed all the electronics, starter, fuel glow starter ext.... My helicopter I chose to go electric and I bought the Trex550ev2. With that I needed a new radio, and all the electric stuff; Batteries, charger, and power supply. I chose to buy quality to allow me use it all as my experience and skill level grows, which is everyone’s goal.
Thanks. It is very expensive and it's hard to juggle the fine line of too cheap and just right. I try to buy things that will last me and I think the MCPX and the DX7 transmitter will last me a while. From what rchelicoptersfun.com says the radio is more important than the heli and I think I got a pretty good deal with the DX7. I spent more than I had planned but in the long run it'll save me money. I'm also looking on ebay for a cable to hook up my transmitter for Realflight or Phoenix or looking on craigslist for the simulator. Lots of time on the simulator and the MCPx will hopefully prepare me for something bigger. I would get bigger because it may be easier due to the stability (if we're talking all collective pitch) but it just costs more, the risk is higher and I dont have the ability to practice things like hover or minor beginner stuff indoors. Not sure how feasible it is with the MCPx but hopefully i can do a thing here and there.

My advice is to spend a lot of time, however much it takes, on the simulator to learn basic hovering skills in all upright orientations before you ever even plug in the battery on the mcpx. And I mean you should be able to hover
in place tail in, tail sideways both directions, quartering, and finally nose in.

The mcpx is a tough little bird, but in can sustain damage that you will not see, like bent feathering shafts, broken main shaft, and having no experience it will be difficult for you to diagnose these problems when
it starts flying like crap. If possible, always fly over tall grass (soft crash landings), and learn early to hit the throttle hold switch when things get out of control so that the bird is not under power when it hits.
Please do not try to fly it indoors or in the garage until you have mastered the basics on the simulator and outside with the mcpx. It is little, but it is fast and can get away from you so quickly.

Finally, if at all possible, try to find someone locally to fly with who is experienced with helis. It will make learning,(and there is a mind boggling amount to learn) so much easier and faster for you.
Good luck, and use that simulator!
Old 12-09-2012, 10:06 PM
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Default RE: Beginner, question about changing controls

To add to what was said regarding the use of throttle hold, I have a tip for helping to make the mCPx even more durable.

This is probably getting into stuff you aren't familiar with yet, but it will make sense when you're actually setting things up. On your transmitter the Y axis of the left stick controls both throttle and collective pitch in tandem. There are multiple flight modes that can be selected via the switches on the transmitter, and each one has its own unique throttle and pitch curve bound to that axis. Idle up modes are often set with the throttle at a fixed amount, usually up close to 100%, and the pitch is the only thing that changes as you move the stick up and down. Throttle Hold is also its own flight mode and has unique curves, however it will have the throttle fixed at 0%.

Now to actually get to my tip, set the Throttle Hold mode so that the pitch curve is fixed at zero degrees. This will make it so that when you hit the TH switch the motor will stop and the blades will snap to zero pitch so they're flat. You'll find that this will reduce the likelihood of damage to the head/linkages/etc.

This is not something you ever really want to do on a larger helicopter, as it completely prevents you from being able to autorotate in case of an emergency (or to show off). However, the mCPx cannot rotate on account of having a separate tail motor so there's no loss.

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