flyer2488

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

You can tweak the setup on just about any heli from wild to wild, thats why there's no real "trainer" helis.

Either one is good, though the Trex is a newer design. What you really need to decide is if you want nitro or electric. After that decison the choice is easy

TakeshiSkunk

The 550 will likely be more bang for your buck unless you're getting some killer used deal. The 30 is just an underpowered 50, and the 550 is sort of an underpowered 600. You'll likely see a bit better performance out of the 550 however (especially if you go flybarless), and if you'd like to get into electric stuff I'd say just go for it right off the bat. Just ask a lot of questions around the forums and you'll find that getting set up with an electric rig isn't too bad.

In my experience I've preferred 500s to 550s, but that's mostly because they're a bit quicker on the cyclic and have all sorts of power to spare for 3D. The 550 running a calm headspeed with tame cyclic throws and some expo should be a very approachable heli for a beginner. It'll have great presence and tracking.

Sim is definitely the key to learning this hobby. You can start with any heli out there if you're just patient enough to take it a step at a time with the simulator. Don't try anything in real life until you fully understand it and have reliable escape plans for every way it could go wrong in the sim. A huge part of learning to fly helis is just drilling stick movements into muscle memory and understanding how the heli will move in all orientations. Now, that 550 will definitely intimidate you the first several times you hear it spooling up and see it get light on the skids, but if you have your control dialed with the sim and have a plan formed for yourself you'll be able to just deal with the fear factor by itself.

flyer2488

Is the perfomance bewteen the the Raptor 30 and trex 550 similar? I know the size of the 2 are comprable, just not sure how rate electric motorsvs glow. I do like that the trex comes with composite and machined parts right out of the box. I expect to crash atleast once, and need to sit down and look at parts and prices.

flyer2488

sorry posted the questions you answered as you posted this. Thanks!

Real2You

Iwas faced with the same "problem" a few years ago and went with a Raptor 50 because Iwas able to get it on a trade so Ibasically got it for free. Iwill say Ilove the fact that you can fill it full of fuel....practice....re-fill it full of fuel...practice some more. Ifigure my next large heli will be an electric as you hear so many good things about electrics. The Raptor 50 has been a great beginner heli for me....and the most important thing I think besides the SIM was putting training gear on it so it could handle hard landings and the tendency to lean on take off when you are first learning to hover.

flyer2488

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

I had a Raptor 30 w/ TT 36 and although I deliberately tried to cook the engine (to get an OS replacement) I could not. The helicopter kept producing more power, nothing like a 50, but good power for a 30. I wishi I still had that heli to compare my flying skills now. The radio system (battery) did me in. The engine never quit.

Read below the demise of my Raptor 30. Have not found any remains as of 2012. Pay attention to the date of the story.

[link]http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t142562p1/[/link]

Contrary to airplanes, the exhaust of the helicopter only comes in contact with the right rear landing leg. There will be some oil droplets all over, but not smeared across the aircraft like an airplane. I wipe my helicopters down at the end of the day with a shop towel, and give them a good cleaning at the end of the season, or after a crash. Oil does not damage the plastic parts of the heli as it could damage the wood of an airplane.

Rafael

Real2You

To me the small mess from a nitro is a non issue. Like Rafael said it doesn't get all over the heli. Iusually clean a little oil off the landing skids when I am through flying but Iam also looking the heli over and inspecting everything so it kind of goes hand in hand(a little bit of clean up and a little bit of inspection).

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

Fly backwards inverted fast and it gets all over

flyer2488

Thanks for all the advice thus far.  I have been doing research all day yesterday, and pretty much think I will be stuck in front of the computer all day today.  I am leaning towards electric; however nitro is still not out of the picture.  I was pricing out electric compared to Nitro.  I am not entirely sure I want the raptor 30 anymore. 

1- It comes in an ARF, and I want a winter project. 
2- I am not familiar with RC helis, and I think building one from a Kit will teach me a lot. 

With that being said getting a thunder tiger kit (raptor .50) with an O.S engine would tap my bank account about the same, maybe a tad less than going electric.  Are there any other Solid .30 size helicopters out there that come in KIT form?  Also should I scrap the idea of going with the 30 and get a 50 if I do choose nitro?  One other question, belt drive or torque tube?

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

I'd reccomend at 50, same frame but bigger blades and motor, better power to weight and same price to fix.

Your point #2 is DEAD ON and always the way I'd recommend doing it.

Belt/TT, beginner you're better off with a belt, requires some adjustment but you're not changing gears every time a tail blade touches the grass.

impulse09

My Feedback: (3)

I would buy based on parts availability in my area. That goes out the window if you have no local shops. BTW, I'm a raptor fan. I think the instructions are better for a beginner.

rotor09

There are many things to consider at your entry level. I like to recommend helis that use 520mm blades or longer for beginners who will be flying outdoors simply because they are so much easier to fly in any type of wind. This will save you from a number of "mishaps" and repairs.

As keeping up with the orientation of the heli is so important in controlling it, you will find the bigger they are the easier they are to see at a distance. Consequently this will really help you figure out what commands to give to get it to do what you want as you progress into forward flight. Again this will save you from a number of mishaps that would cost you in parts purchases and repair time.

In 30 sized nitro birds the two main choices today are the TT Rappy 30 & the Century Hawk Pro. My personal preference is the Hawk Pro, but having had both & trained a number of pilots on both, I can say they are both worthy contenders.

The big difference, specially for any newbie, between a nitro/glow powered heli and an electric heli, is that with nitro/glow, you will have to learn how to tune the engine (idle and main needles), how to set-up a proper throttle curve to match your pitch curve, and later, when you get into aerobatics, how to set-up proper throttle mixes to maintain rotor rpm through cyclic demands.....or incur the extra cost of a governor & learn how to set it up.

With a 550 electric such as the Align T550 or a Century Swift NX, there is no issue with learning how to properly tune an engine, set-up throttle curves or a governor, as all of that is looked after by the ESC.

That said, my Swift NX on a 6S/4000/ 35C pack has more power then any Nitro 30 (even with the new 37 and 39 engines). Set for the lower head speeds (1600) that favor initial training, the Hawk will give me more flight time on their relatively large tank (14 minutes) compared to 8 minutes on the 550 Swift or T550. Ditto for at higher head speeds for aerobatics or 3D.

Also, after any flights that have had any backwards (inverted or right side up) segments happening, the electrics will not require any wipe-down, while the glow helis certainly will.

Crossfade

My Feedback: (1)

You'll defiantly learn a lot about your heli by getting a kit and building it yourself, that feeling of building it
and watching it actually fly for the first time can't really be explained ! But I can tell you it will feel really dam good 😃

Another thing about building it yourself is when you crash for the first time you'll be able to tear it
down and fix it with no problems.

flyer2488

TakeshiSkunk

Throttle curve, pinion, blade length and battery will all factor into head speed. Dont worry about it too much, you'll have a decent useable range with the basic setup. I personally think a higher headspeed is always better since it makes the heli more locked in, I'd instead recommend using a lot of expo and reduced rates on your cyclic to tame it down for getting started.

In general any decent charging setup will allow you to charge at 1C at the very least, meaning 1 hour to charge. 2C will get it done in 30 minutes but can be bad for batteries depending on who you ask. I only charge at 2C when I'm at the field, haven't noticed any problems.

The trick to charging is to get a capable power supply and charger and use a paraboard or something similar. This will let you charge multiple similar packs simultaneously. My home setup can comfortably charge my 3 6s packs in an hour.

rotor09

You will find that most manufacturers offer different pinions for their helis. This is to allow the knowledgeable flyer to pick the pinion that would give him the rotor speed he desires with his ESC set to be the most efficient. So for whatever heli you are working with, as long as you know the KV of the motor you are using, the voltage of the pack you are using, the number of teeth on your maingear, and the number of teeth on the pinion gear, you can figure out what your head speed would be using the ESC at 100% setting in the throttle curve.

All motors come with a KV rating as a normal part of its sepecification on their instruction sheet. That tells you how many RPM per Volt that motor will turn.

I will use my Swift NX as an example.

Let us assume I have a motor that has a KV of 1000 and I want to use a 6S pack. Here I just multiply the battery packs nominal volatage (22,2) by the KV rating of the motor. That means that if all is operating at 100% effeciency, that motor would turn at 22,000 rpm. Of course, no system operates at 100% efficiency, so for such calculations we generally use 90%. This would mean the more probable RPM of your motor would be 22,000 x 0.9 = 19800.

Now we need to know what gear ratio I would need to get that 19800 motor rpm to a 1600 rotor rpm. To do so, simply devide the motor speed by the desired rotor speed. In this case that is 19800/1600 = 12.375

The maingear of my Swift NX has 96 teeth, so now I can figure what pinion I would need to get the 12.375 gear ratio or close to it. Century offer pnions from 8T to 14T for any motor ne may choose to purchase, for their helis, that may have 5mm output shafts and the same for motors with 6 mm output shafts.

So if I take the 8T pinion, that would give me a ratio of 96/8 = 12 which is close enough. This would give me a rotor speed at 100% throttle of 19800/12 = 1650.

But now I can even give myself more versatility by using my ESC in a comfortable governor range by going to the 10T pinion. Most ESC's cut back internally from the 100%, when in the governor mode. So using the 10T pinion would probably give me a maximum potential with a motor of 19,800, and a ratio of 9.6 (96/10) of 2062. Now I have enough wiggle room to set the governor on the ESV for lower speeds that could get me comfortably down to 1600, and which can later be reset for higher rotor speeds as one becomes more proficient.

flyer2488

Awesome, thanks for the info!  I think this thread is turning out a lot of information that I am sure can help some other people in my position. 

rotor09

I agree, starting out with the standard flybar system would also be my recommendation. If you find that you would want softer controls, you can simply add some flybar weights.

flyer2488

For those of you who order your kits online, is there any specific place you recommend.  I have looked a few different places and the cheapest I found the Trex 550e v2 for $719.95 with free shippin on Rcplanet.com.  That is relatively cheap compared to a few other sites. Helipal.com lists it for 699.99, but its a wash with the $54 shipping.   I think today is the day I get it over with and get it ordered.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

www.ronlund.com
www.heliproz.com

A few bucks is nothing when you end up in a customer service nightmare.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

I rarely shop anywhere else.

Rafael

Crossfade

My Feedback: (1)

I Normally use [link=http://www.heliproz.com/]HeliProz[/link] or [link=http://www.amainhobbies.com/index.php/cPath/2/n/RC-Helicopters]A Main Hobbies[/link]

flyer2488

I have one ordered am ready to go.  I am sure I will be posting some questions during the build.  Thanks again for the advice thus far!