mooseflier

o I just finished building my first heli (Trex 450). I've flown planes for almost 25 years now and i've always watched the hovering heli pilots at the field with a little amusement. Out there fore 2 months learning to hover and all.

Well I finally bought my first heli kit (couldn't afford it when I was younger... planes are much more affordable and cost a lot less to fix... and that was back in the day of all-gas).. I haven't flown it yet.. I just finished the build. Sill have to put the electronics in. I'm using my DX7 that I have for my planes.

Anyhow, I have the RealFlight G3 and I'm trying to put some time in on it before I actually try to hover the new choper. I have talked to people at the airfield before that I *thought* were joking when they said RC helis were harder to fly than real helis, but now I see what' they mean. I mean, planes have their controls reversed when coming at you, or upside-down, buit helis are a whole different mess. The conrols *litreally* change as the heli rotates. It's mind-bogglingly complex!

So my question is, what is some standard regiment to tackle this? At this point I've read that you practice trying to always make the tail face you (assummingly to avoid the mixed controls issue). I figure i'm just going to have to hammer away at some hours on the simulator, but right now i'm a little overwhelmed. If I try to do much more than hover in the sim, i'm toast.

Anyhow, just looking for some advice on how to start training myself. Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks!

PSo you use two fingers for the throttle? I've seen a couple heli videos suggesting to get used to that. For planes I never did that...

jester_s1

Do a search for the heli pilot proficiency program. It's a linear set of skills beginning with tail in hovering and going all the way through advanced aerobatics. If you'll pace yourself and really get one skill down before moving on to the next, you'll do very well with your heli.

mooseflier

Awesome, thanks a ton Jester... that's exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for. And ya, I can live with pacing myself, vs $500 bucks!

KRASHKOPTER

My Feedback: (1)

Here is what I downloaded. I only started about 4 months ago and am still putting in at least 3 hours a day on the sim (Phoenix)
Enjoy....and happy learning.

http://www.ircha.org/index.php?pr=PPP_Levels

K

mooseflier

Thanks Krash, I'll definitely check it out. How has it been working out for you so far?

ATVAlliance

You state that you have flown planes for the past 25 years now, so I will ask you this question. Have you ever flown a Cub or any short coupled airplane that required you to use rudder when turning to prevent "adverse yaw" of the tail? If so...the way you flew that plane will resemble you flying a CPheli with HH gyro. Only thing is with the Cub if you didnt use rudder the result was an awkward looking turn where the tail hung down below the horizontal...but usually wouldnt cause a crash unless you had too low of airspeed. With the heli...you dont use the rudder...you most likely will crash!

So...on your SIM...take the heli off and pretend that it is a short coupled airframe and fly the tail around the turn. I bet you will surprise yourself when you look at it this way. I wont go into specifics on how to do it since you have been flying planes for so long you should know exactly what Im talking about.

Always learn to tail in hover first. This way if you get out of control...you can use rudder to piro the tail around to a "tail in" position, regain your perspective and go at it again.

Goodluck. Helis are huge fun once you get past the hovering stage. I never thought I would say this...but I think I like them better than my planes now. lol

PS...when I talk about flying the Cub is similar toflying a CPheli...I mean a 4channel cub with ailerons. Not a 3 channel with only rudder.

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

That applies to airplanes as well, its harder to fly RC than full scale.

Its harder to fly helis than planks....err fixed wing planes. (that applies to full scale as well)

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Start thinking in relative terms. If you pull the right stick, the nose will move towards the blades, if you push it, the nose will move away from the blades. Apply that mentality to your training. I know it is easier said than done, but since you are learning now it might be easier for you. I learned the "basic" way and having a hard time with inverted and backwards maneuvers.


Again, I learned to use thumbs as any planker ahem... fixed wing pilot would. Then i tried to use two fingers on BOTH sticks and found out that I had way better control of the helicopter that way.

Rafael

ATVAlliance

PSo you use two fingers for the throttle? I've seen a couple heli videos suggesting to get used to that. For planes I never did that...
[/quote]

Again, I learned to use thumbs as any planker ahem... fixed wing pilot would. Then i tried to use two fingers on BOTH sticks and found out that I had way better control of the helicopter that way.

Rafael
[/quote]

Im just finishing my 3rd year in the hobby and I learned to be a "thumbs only" flyer. Its what most of the guys were doing at the field, soI just started out doing what they were. I wasnt into helis at the onset of my RC addiction, soi knew no better.

If Iknew then what I know now...I would try to be a "pinch" flyer. I have tried the "pinch" method and find that you can be a lot more precise with it. However, my muscle memory is already used to thumb flying...and I dont want to have to relearn things as I can fly pretty well...both airplanes and helis now.

But...like I said...if you are brand new, Id at least try to learn the "pinch" method of control unless it just totally feels wrong to you. Or, if you dont ever plan on doing anything other than sport/scale flying...I cant see either method being preferred. If you want to 3D...I can definitely see where the "pinch" method would be the preference.

just my .02's

mooseflier

Thanks for all the replies! Also, ATA, thanks for you reply on the canopy thread... I think I'll try that as I have a nice laquer gun I'll try out on that after painting.

As for the Cub, or a 'short coupled' plane (I've never heard of that, as long as I've been flying), I've only ever flown a 'no-aeleron' plane/rudder only once. But I have practices using rudders on my 4-channels to do turns and I know exactly what you mean ( Ithink at least)... as you use the tail (as you would the rotor) to whip the arse-end of the plane around, rather than aeleron and elevator. Also, I've started noticing that in the Sim for the helis. It makes it tremendously easier to follow the controls... as at lease it's pointed in the direction I'm thinking of (as I would a plane)

Not that I'm going to try this... or rather I have in the Sim with horrible results... but... auto-rotation. As far as I gater, that means dead-sticking for helis. How is that even possible?? In the G3 they want you to climb to 200m then dead stick. I've flown some planes with the glide slope of a brick, as they say (like a bipe)... but a heli?? What are the phyisics of that?

KRASHKOPTER

My Feedback: (1)

As far as learning, I am doing quite well. Most of my time is spent on the sim for now, but I occassionaly go out to the driveway and front lawn to cruise around with the Mcpx, sometimes trying what I just did on the sim. Mind you, I am not doing anything really heavy, just
familiarizing myself with different orientations to get that *muscle memory* thing happening. I have done a few flips and inverted flight but nothing of any duration as I ideally need more room to feel comfortable. Cmon summer 2013!! All in all I am happy with the progress made so far and it doeshelp having the sim.
On another note, I just grabbed me an MQX quad bnf that is a blast to mess with. It helps break the sometimes boring sim time. I know I said I was going to save up for a 550 or 600 but that money is still set aside...lol. This lil quad is great...tough as nails too as my man
cave walls have found out..... It was on sale for $119 so wth.

About the pilot's course...it is extremely helpful....just do like someone suggested and go through each step till it is second nature and move on to the next....u can keep logfiles, etc to look back on. I also use these vids that a modeller took the time to post...they are also
an awesome learning tool.... http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t659475p1/

Good luck wiith your 450...and about your question on autorotation...let's see if I can try to help with what I have picked up so far...not really sure if I am totally correct but here goes....sorta like a suprise test for us noobs...lol
I think it has to do with building up energy (from the falling craft) and using that energy, while manipulating the neg/pos collective stick, to *flare* up with pos pitch at just the right moment to complete a soft landing....or something like that...maybe a pro could clarify...lol

Well, dats it, dats all, for now,.....

K

ATVAlliance

Short coupled planes mean that the length of the fuse from the center of gravity is shorter than a longer coupled fuse. A couple of airframes that come to mind that would be short coupled would be the Cub as I previous mentioned and the Sbach 3-D stunt plane. There are obviously others...I just wanted to give you these so you could see them in your minds eye.

When I said flying a circuit with a CPheli with HH gyro is much like flying a short coupled airplane...I simply meant that with a short coupled airplane(4channel) you can turn it with only aileron and elevator, BUT if you dont input rudder the tail will drop below the nose in the turn. It looks as if the airplane is traveling around the turn in a "high alpha" position. To bring the tail up to level or even higher than the nose...you input rudder (while still flying your aileron/elevator) to compensate.

While not using the rudder on an airplane that is short coupled will only mostly result in a poor looking turn which isnt "scale like" at all...the airplane will complete the turn with no rudder IFyou have enough airspeed. However, a helicopter is not the case. You HAVEto keep your eye on the tail rotor/boom of the heli while making the turn and input rudder to bring the tail around. In HHmode the tail wont follow the nose, but rather stay where you last put it via the gimble. Ive heard that in "Rate"mode of the gyro...the tail can follow the nose through a turn, but the downside of this is that any sudden wind can "blow the tail out" as well. So, for me I would much rather use HH mode and know that the tail will stay exactly where I put it until i tell it to move again. I dont have the nerves yet to try a circuit in "rate mode" to test this myself...but that seems to be the consensus of what I have read online about Rate mode.

Also, just to clarify...you dont use ONLYrudder to fly a heli around a turn. You need to use your cyclic (aileron/elevator) just like you would a plane...add in rudder to bring the tail around. Its not exactly like an airplane in which you CAN make a turn by using only the rudder. My comparison was meant to mimic flying a 4 channel airplane around a turn using aileron/elevator (good ole "yank -n- bank") while adding in the rudder to make the turn "look" more scale like. You wouldnt need to do this with say an Ugly Stick as they are longer coupled and the tail doesnt sag around the turn. But you do notice it big time on the cub.

Also, KRASH is pretty much spot on as far as auto's are concerned. Basically you would be in Stunt Mode 1 or 2 (mode that allows you to input negative collective with negative throttle). You would get the heli up high and cut the power. When it starts to fall you would put negative collective in to actually make it fall/rotate the main rotors faster. Within "X"amount of feet from the ground you would put in positive collective to provide enough lift to set the heli down lightly.

I dont practice auto rotations because...well Im scared of crashing. Ifigure it like this....once I get good enough to "think" I can do one...I will practice them. However if I lose power and have to do it...I was going to crash anyway...so ANY attempt at an auto rotation will be a chance I MIGHT get it back down on its skids with minimal damages.

goodluck

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

If you're flying around you really should know how to auto rotate. The hardest part of learning autos is making yourself flick the switch, the auto's themselves arent that hard.

ATVAlliance

I know how...I just cant make myself do it. Ive done it a few feet off the ground and had success...well I broke a skid one time on my 500 doing it low to the ground. I just cant seem to find the courage to do it say 100' up. Im too afraid I'll lose momentum and have a "self induced" crash.

Like I said...if I lose power during a flight...Im going to probably crash anyway. So, knowing "how to do one" will come in handy and maybe help me save it...50/50 shot I guess. But doing one and not being successful just for "practice" makes me too nervous. lol

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

When I get a break from projects I might do a how-to article with video.

I have the text written, its just a matter of making the video.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Here is some reading from one pilot that has won the spot auto contest several years in a row.

[link]http://www.ronlund.com/rcheli/ARCHIVE_AUTO.html[/link]

Start with "baby autos" and work your way up. There are two types of helicopter pilots. Those who have already done an emergency auto, and those that will. If you have not practiced them in your terms, you will have to forcibly do them in the heli-gods terms.

Rafael

A. J. Clark

I think your starting with the right size heli. I was like you I started in helis after doing planes for 20 some years. I started with one of those small helis with a tail motor on it. It didn't take lone to see I wasn't going to get very far with it. Got a 400 size and worked up from there.
Useing the rudder on your plane will help alot with heli. After that I am not sure much transfers for planes to helis. With helis you must fly all 4 control all the time. A first it will take a alot more concentration than it does with a plane. It's common to want to do forward flight right away. Don't forget to learn the basic too. With out the basics you won't go much farther than forward flight.