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Need help with settings...

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Old 02-05-2013, 11:22 PM
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RainFlyer1
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Default Need help with settings...

Hello all,


I have a Helimax Axe 100 CP that I am learning to fly on. It has been going really good so far also spending a lot of time on a realflight sim. So today I was flying around a bit and thought I would try to go inverted,, but whenever I flip it over it seems like it has very little lift. I start at 15-20' and end up at 1-2' It just feels really sluggish and almost impossible to turn back over again. So any thoughts????
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:58 PM
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Default RE: Need help with settings...

Are you flipping the idle up switch? Do you have an inverted pitch / throttle curve programmed? I am short on time right now. Hopefully somebody can chime in if the responses are "no". If not I should be able to log in back tomorrow and explain further.

Sorry
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:50 PM
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Default RE: Need help with settings...

I think I got it figured out. It wasn't my TX settings, I think the motor isn't getting enough power for some reason. Lucky for me I had already had a second heli sent up here..

Thanks for looking...
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:49 AM
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Default RE: Need help with settings...

I thought of commenting on this thread yesterday, but didnt because I dont own the Axe CP 100.
I do own a Blade mCPX and out of the box it had too much negative and too little positive pitch. There were two ways I could go about correcting that. One was to remove the cyclic servo linkages and adjust. The other is to go into the radio programming and change the travel adjust for Pitch. I chose the latter.
Now, the question is...does the Axe 100 CP use the same type of swash mix...therefor giving you basically the same 2nd choice as I had with my Blade heli. Of course you could adjust the individual links too, but I found that to be too much of a pain with the possibility of breaking a link ball.
I doubt its your motor. If it was...you would be low on power/thrust in either direction, positive or negative. It sounds as if you have plenty of power for positive, but just not enough negative pitch.
Keep in mind that once you mess with the Travel Adjust of the Pitch menu...you may have to go in and reset your pitch curves for Normal, Stnt1, Stnt2 flight modes. Because you always want to be around 0-+1 pitch at mid stick.
I just eyeballed my pitch really as I had no tool to gauge it, so I would make an adjustment and fly the heli and readjust if needed. I realize they do make pitch gauges for these small micro CP helis...I just didnt feel it was worth owning one. I got my mCPX flying just how I like it without one.
Again...I seriously doubt its your motor. A possibility of course, but doubtful...especially going by your description of the symptom.
goodluck.

PS...I forgot to mention. Rafael may be onto something as well. Most heli pilots that have been flying a while will not set up their pitch curves to be 0 pitch at low throttle stick in Normal mode. Most try to attain about a -2 at low stick position. However, in Normal mode you wouldnt have enough throttle at below mid stick on throttle to give any lift. That is the only reason I discounted his suggestion. But, depending on your throttle curve, you may in fact have enough headspeed at below mid stick to provide some lift when flipped inverted. Still, the question is worth asking in order to troubleshoot any and all possibilities that could cause your issue.

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Old 02-07-2013, 07:44 AM
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Default RE: Need help with settings...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RainFlyer1

I think I got it figured out. It wasn't my TX settings, I think the motor isn't getting enough power for some reason. Lucky for me I had already had a second heli sent up here..

Thanks for looking...

What are your TX settings? If you have power to take off, you should have power to sustain inverted flight with proper tx programming. I stand by my suggestion of proper throttle curves. Please tell me what your setting are to keep the conversation moving.

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: Need help with settings...

Hi guys, 

  The reason I think its the motor is because I did start to have problems with lift in normal flight regardless of the up-1 possition. It finaly got to the point where It would only fly if I had the fifth point of the pitch curve set at 80%. Then finaly I was flying along and it just fell out of the sky and broke the last set of landing skids I had. So now I'm flying a backup 100 cp that I orderd the last time I bought parts and it is much better, though I havn't tried inverd again since I no longer have a backup...
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: Need help with settings...

Sorry almost forgot my pitch settings are 035, 045, 055, 060, 070  I brought the last two down a bit for better control.   Ohh and the swash is 90 deg.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: RainFlyer1

Sorry almost forgot my pitch settings are 035, 045, 055, 060, 070 I brought the last two down a bit for better control. Ohh and the swash is 90 deg.
That pitch curve doesnt seem right to me, then again...I dont own this heli.

the pitch curve for normal on an mcpx should be something like 30 40 50 75 100, for st1 and st2 0 25 50 75 100

Is the swash type 90 degree 1 servo? If so, thats the same as the mcpx. And you should have a travel adjust for PITCH in your setup menu. The top number would be the amount of pitch at full positive while the bottom number would be the amount of pitch for full negative. This is what I adjusted on my mCPX to offset the factory setup of the linkages and get my pitch amounts correct. Like I said before, my heli had more negative than positive. But after tweaking I got it close to the same in both directions.

If you adjust the travel adjust of pitch...you may or may not need to adjust your pitch curves. I feel you need to adjust them anyway because your max pitch is at 70% and not 100%. But, maybe that is what the manual called for and I just dont know it because I never set one of the Heli Max' helis up before.

You could be right that your motor is bad or going bad. Without knowing how many flights you have put on it...there is no way to really tell. But, with brushed motors, you can expect them to give out at some point. If your heli still has low hours of operation on it...I wouldnt think it would be the motor. If its been flown around the world a couple times...then yeah...I wouldnt rule out the motor. I say this because a friend of mine just bought a used mcpx to learn to fly on and I set it up for him and could tell right away that it needs a new motor. The heli just doesnt have the power that mine does and everything else is identical in setup.





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Old 02-07-2013, 01:36 PM
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Default RE: Need help with settings...

We are not talking the same language here, and sorry ATV, you are not helping much either. Too long of explanations and drifting off subject.

Throttle curve

Normal mode:
low stick 0%
Mid stick : 50%
Full stick: 100%

Idle up mode:
low stick 100%
mid stick 50 to 70% depending on how much headspeed you want to carry at zero pitch.
full stick 100%


Pitch curve: (I'm going to bypass the novice setting since you are already talking about flying inverted)
(here you have a choice, mirror curve of modified novice curve. After 20+ years of flying, I still prefer the modified novice curve)

Modified novice curve:
Normal mode
low stick: approx -4 degrees
mid stick: 0 degrees
Full stick: 10 degrees or the maximum allowable by the helicopter. Do not exceed 13 degrees

Idle up curve
low stick: -10 degrees or the maximum allowable by the helicopter. Do not exceed -13 degrees
mid stick: 0 degrees
Full stick: 10 degrees or the maximum allowable by the helicopter. Do not exceed 13 degrees

Mirror curve:
Normal Curve
low stick: -10 degrees or the maximum allowable by the helicopter. Do not exceed -13 degrees
mid stick: 0 degrees
Full stick: 10 degrees or the maximum allowable by the helicopter. Do not exceed 13 degrees

Idle up curve
low stick: -10 degrees or the maximum allowable by the helicopter. Do not exceed -13 degrees
mid stick: 0 degrees
Full stick: 10 degrees or the maximum allowable by the helicopter. Do not exceed 13 degrees

This is all assuming that you have the proper servo total travel properly programmed into the radio. And that the servos are installed properly on to the helicopter. We could write a book about this subject alone.

Sorry I can't give you numbers to plug into your radio, because as you will soon find out, not all radios are manufactured the same way, not all servos are manufatured the same way, not all helicopters are manufactured the same way, and even two helicopters of the same brand with the same servos assembled by two different people, will have different programming numbers. The best way to remember how to program a helicopter is to remember the numbers above and use a pitch gauge to go thru the programming. Been doing it thtat way for over 20+ years.

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Old 02-07-2013, 01:57 PM
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Default RE: Need help with settings...

ummmmm okay.

I dont see your point.  But by all means...carry on.  I'll bow out.
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