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Really dumb Newbie questions.....

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Old 08-16-2002, 11:42 AM
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Fly4Fun2
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Hi all -

I am going for my first try at flying a glow powered helicopter. I have flown airplanes for years and had an electric indoor heli for a while as well as a lot of time on the sim.

I have a Concept 30 SR w/ OS 32 that I am going to attempt to learn with.

I have two questions - ---

FIRST - do you HAVE to use Heli fuel. All I will be doing right now is short hovers. I have some Cool Power 15% that I use in airplanes. I mainly fly giant scale gas, so I would like to burn up as much of this 15% as I can before it gets old. I realize that eventually, I will need heli fuel for the extra power and oil content for cooling, but is it really necessary right now?

SECOND (and this one is REALLY dumb) - how the heck do you set the needle valves on the engine??? The heli has been flown before, so I assume the low end is set OK. I tried to take the engine out and put it on a test stand w/ a prop, but one of the muffler bolts was frozen so I could not get it out of the frame. I guess I could take the frame apart, but I am hoping there is an easier way.

TIA for your answers!!!

Keith
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Old 08-16-2002, 12:26 PM
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1. A-No you do not have to use Heli Fuel as long as it does not contain Castor oil in it.

2. A-To set needles you must fly it, start with initial factory settings and then lean out ( couple click at a time) til you get good power with a good smoke trail.
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Old 08-16-2002, 12:34 PM
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Thanks -

I did not receive a manual with the engine. Does anyone know the factory settings for an OS 32? I am assuming 2 1/2 turns out is a good place to start and is still probably a little rich.
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Old 08-16-2002, 12:36 PM
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High speed needle is rich at 2 turns, the idle is about 1 1/2 but that is factory set.
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Old 08-16-2002, 03:30 PM
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why the "no castor" requirement?
thatīs the only thing i can find and that is what i use

thanks,
diego
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Old 08-16-2002, 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by pepito9
why the "no castor" requirement?
thatīs the only thing i can find and that is what i use

thanks,
diego
Castor , is a hp robing lubricant that tarnishes and gums your engine. Synthetic, is not a better lubricant but does the jobs very well, and delivers HP. About 98% +/- of heli flyer's use a fuel with only synthetic oil.
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Old 08-16-2002, 04:15 PM
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Plus Castor will turn everything it gets on a nice brown color.

Synthetic, is not a better lubricant
What do you base this on? Do you have some info to back that up? I had always heard that the synthetic lubricants did a better job, and that is why we use the in helicopters, since we do not have our engines exposed to nice coool prop wash, and that they are usually burried in the middle of the airframe.
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Old 08-16-2002, 04:27 PM
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Here's a repost form RCU in the fuel section...

With permission from Don Nix, President of GBG Industries Inc., manufacturers of Powermaster model fuel, I am going to reprint part of his article.

"SYNTHETIC OILS

Strong Points

Good Lubricity (it's "slick")

Little or no carbon or varnish inside

Leavs less oily mess on models

Available in a variety of viscosities

Totally soluble in nitromethane

Weak Points

When used as the sole lubricant, a greater quantity is required, which increases the cost of the fuel.

Most tend to cause corrosion if adequate inhibitors aren't added

Burns off surfaces at about 100 deg. lower temps than castor

Many types and qualities, making it hard to choose the best one

Expensive-good ones cost almost twice as much as castor oil, increasing the cost of the fuel.


CASTOR OIL
Strong Points

Great lubricity

Reduces the amount required, resulting in more power and better idle.

Will tolerate internal temperatures about 100 deg. higher than any synthetic

Almost 50% cheaper than good synthetics-reduces cost of fuel.

Great natural rust and corrosion inhibibitor

Weak Points

Tends to cause carbon and varnish build up in engine if cheap grade and/or too much is used.

Messier on models than synthetics

Somewhat sensitive to extremely cold temps. - mild separation in solution, residue on model becomes almost "buttery" in consistancy.

Insoluble in nitromethane. In solutions above 40-50%nitro, will separate unless some sort of co-solvent is used.

Generally available in only one viscosity"


(In lieu of reprinting all of the paragraphs which follow this I'll print the sentences and paragraphs pertinant.)

"If you don't see much oil on your model after flying, that tells you one of two things-or both: Either there wasn't enough oil in there in the first place, or the oil is burning off with the methonal. Neither is good. There is no way oil can burn off and properly lubricate at the same time.
Oil residue in model engines is as natural as barking is to a dog. We have to learn to live with it."


Personally, many of us at the flying field prefer 10-15% nitro with 18-20% oil, 3-5% of which is castor. We run this in both 2 and 4 strokes without any problems.

I found this article on the RCO site about a year ago. It may still be there if anyone wishes to read it in it's entirety.

Jeff
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Old 08-16-2002, 04:34 PM
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Thanks for the reply, I think I read the statement a little to literally. The synthetic is not better than castor, but it as good.

Totally soluble in nitromethane
That has to be a good point, and also the one about less messy that castor is what drove me to using the synthetic heli mix in my little wonder as well as my helicopter. I hated all that thick messy oil on the wing after a flight.

The fuel I use now has 18% oil content, and it is all synthetic.
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Old 08-16-2002, 06:44 PM
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.02 $

On fuel: The engine is broken in right? You don't want to run Syn in a fresh motor (R/C or real).

If the motor is stuck in the bird. Get it out! If this is used you probably should pull it and check the clutch, etc. Take the pain on the muff now rather than later.

Make sure to have a heli-bud check it out before you try to fly it. The last thing you want is a messed-up heli setup coming at you like a food processor on drugs.

In that vane: Make sure all of the rods are correct length and radio moves to the right pitch etc. I got a "new" one where one of the swash rods was 6mm off from the other side. It would have been on its top before I could even thing if I had tried to fly it that way.

Good luck and be carefull!
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Old 08-16-2002, 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by pave-low
.02 $

On fuel: The engine is broken in right? You don't want to run Syn in a fresh motor (R/C or real).

...

The new YS 1.40 DZ says in the instruction manual use ONLY synthetic oil. Do not use any castor.

Basically, always follow what the instructions say.

Everything else is very good advice.

Dean
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Old 08-16-2002, 10:20 PM
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Great catch.
I was just assuming this was like most of what I get (no instructions included).

You are very correct always follow the book if there is one (and apply common sense to what you read remember "lather rinse repeat").

THX-
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Old 08-23-2002, 11:54 AM
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This is all great stuff. Thanks for posting--its not my thread but it helped me ALOT. Its good for us newbs to hear questions answered by the more experienced chopper jocks. Thanks,
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