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Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

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Old 08-23-2002, 09:25 PM
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oliflyer
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

I want to start flying helis and have the opportunity to buy a Kyosho Concept 30, is it OK for a beginner ?

Note that I will start the training on G2 first but may be the Concept 30 still doesn't fit.

Thanks, Chris.
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Old 08-23-2002, 11:31 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

It's OK , but a little problematic. I would stick to a more main stream helicopter like a Raptor the parts are way more readily available then for the 10 yr old Concept.
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Old 08-24-2002, 06:21 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Thank you very much for the advise, I didn't know that the Concept 30 was 10 years old, I agree with you it will be tricky to get replacement parts and I am sure I will need them ;-). The gyro was a FP-G3 which I guess is old technology too. By the way, one more dummy question, what is the gyro used for ? Maintain the cap without having to hold the tail rotor stick ?

Thanks, Chris.
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Old 08-24-2002, 11:44 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

I was wondering the same thing, and I think you're right. Or thats what I always thought... Someone help us.
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Old 08-24-2002, 11:53 PM
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Default Fine for me...

The Concept .30 is turning out to be a fine beginner's heli for me.
Yes, it's old. I am in the process of replacing worn ball links and swashplate.
(Along with other goodies someone is shipping me )
I agree with checking to see what's popular in your area though.
I'm still able to get (or order) most of the Concept parts, in my area. Your mileage may vary.

As for the gyro, its main purpose is to dampen left/right tail movement.
Without one, the difficulty would be greatly increased. Definitely not something a beginner wants!
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Old 08-25-2002, 03:51 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Okay, thanks. Does it at all hinder the "rudder" turning performance, or just the free movement while there is no "rudder" inputs? And what is the heli term for rudder? I know it (really...) but I just can't remember for the life of me. Thanks,
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:09 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Q-Does it at all hinder the "rudder" turning performance, or just the free movement while there is no "rudder" inputs?

A-The new HH gyro's will "let go" when a input is given and maintain a constate rotation of the heli, then when the stick is relaxted it locks in the tail.


Q-And what is the heli term for rudder? I know it (really...) but I just can't remember for the life of me.

A- Rudder (yaw)
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:15 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

There isn't another special term (like cyclic--but not)? Or is this one of those dumb newbie questions and I cant remember the term because there isnt one?
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Old 08-25-2002, 04:16 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Oh and thanks for answering my gyro question.
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Old 08-26-2002, 12:11 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Thanks for the answers.

Are the gyros only used by beginners ?

Chris.
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Old 08-26-2002, 12:15 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

No all helicopter's have one it's necessary to keep the tail under control , do to the constant toque changes.
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Old 08-26-2002, 07:44 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Originally posted by GFanTM
There isn't another special term (like cyclic--but not)? Or is this one of those dumb newbie questions and I cant remember the term because there isnt one?
In full scale they're called (at least in my experience) "anti-torque pedals"... but then of course the guy I fly with most of the time calls it an airplane so what does he know
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Old 08-26-2002, 07:51 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Originally posted by Furyflyer2
A-The new HH gyro's will "let go" when a input is given and maintain a constate rotation of the heli, then when the stick is relaxted it locks in the tail.
Not nitpicking but I want to clarify that statement for myself... I was under the impression the HH gyros (the GY401 anyway) didn't just "let go" but actually regulated the rate of rotation around in the yaw axis.

In other words if you were to simply add some right trim on the rudder the servo will initiate a right turn until the gyro senses the appropriate rate of turn for the given input - even if that means going to full right "rudder" (on the helicopter) even though you've only asked for a little. After rotation and the rate of rotation has been established the rudder servo works to continue the desired rate - no matter what rudder servo changes are needed.

In reference to the original question, it doesn't hinder turning at, but does remove the need for the pilot to worry about what the rudder is doing. If you want a slow turn you just tell the "rudder" to start turning, the gyro will continue your commanded turn until you release the stick then goes back to holding that heading.

Am I on the right track?
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Old 08-26-2002, 08:43 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

You answered any questions I would have asked in the future about gyros. Thanks all for helping me on this. I felt stupid not knowing what a piezo gyro and a mech. gyro were. And what the heck Heading-Hold was. But now I do. Thanks again,
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Old 08-26-2002, 08:43 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Oh ya, PhotoOperator... do you by chance live near ERAU? Check my Profile if you are curious why I ask.
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Old 08-26-2002, 09:06 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Thanks you all for these info, I also found a lot of answers to the questions I wanted to ask (thanks to the author) on the website below:

http://members.telocity.com/fritzthecat/novice.html

Chris.
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Old 08-26-2002, 10:29 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Originally posted by PhotoOperator


Not nitpicking but I want to clarify that statement for myself... I was under the impression the HH gyros (the GY401 anyway) didn't just "let go" but actually regulated the rate of rotation around in the yaw axis.

"
The new HH gyro's will "let go" when a input is given and maintain a constant rotation of the heli, then when the stick is relaxed it locks in the tail"

Maybe "let go" was a little misunderstood , the HH gyro has stick authority, meaning when a stick input is given it (being the gyro) does not try to counter act the input given by you. Hence it "lets go" and maintains a constant rotation proportional to the amount of stick input. Verse a non stick authority gyro(mechanical , old csm etc.) which continues to dampen the input given.
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Old 08-26-2002, 11:40 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Originally posted by Furyflyer2


Maybe "let go" was a little misunderstood , the HH gyro has stick authority, meaning when a stick input is given it (being the gyro) does not try to counter act the input given by you. Hence it "lets go" and maintains a constant rotation proportional to the amount of stick input. Verse a non stick authority gyro(mechanical , old csm etc.) which continues to dampen the input given.

Great - sounds like we're on the same page. I assumed that's what it did, but I'm still real new to all this new fangled technology
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Old 08-26-2002, 11:46 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Originally posted by GFanTM
Oh ya, PhotoOperator... do you by chance live near ERAU? Check my Profile if you are curious why I ask.

Sort of - I'm about 10 miles due north of KDAB.

From your profile I can say you're doing it the right way. Absolutely do everything you can to get at least your PPL before you enroll, get even more experience if you can too.

Feel free to email me anytime - photoOp@aerog.com
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:47 AM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Wow, This really is a beginner's forum.

Actually, the Concept 30 is a fine training helicopter to learn on. It has been for over 10 years. Be advised that is was designed by the same gentleman that designed the Raptor only a few years ago. And he, Mr Taya, also designed the Kalt Enforcer which was arguably an improvement over the Concept 30. I learned most of my flying on the Enforcer until I could recognize its strengths and weaknesses and moved on from there.

Just because the Concept is old doesn't mean it has lost any training ability. The Shuttle has been around just as long if not longer and has steadily proved itself as a rock solid trainer as well as Pro bird.

Knowing all this and the fact that the Raptor is Mr Taya's third Generation of designs, I would tend to look at the Raptor for my training experience. Not to mention that the Raptor is the hottest thing to hit R/C helicopters since the Concept was introduced. The Concept became the "rage" for the same reasons - inexpensive, solid design, readily available to dealers due to standard markups.

You are going to need parts. You should select your machine by your ability to obtain those parts so that you can continue your learning experience with the least interruption. Also ask your instructor/mentor. Maybe he knows how to get parts for brand "X" easier. Or talk to your local Hobby Dealer in case you don't like to wait a week for a $1 plastic piece and pay the post office $10 to store it for that week.

Don't forget that Mr Taya is a World Champion and the Raptor took three prominent places in THIS YEAR's National Championships by some very young men. If at all possible, I would try to get hold of a Raptor.

But, If your local Helicopter Guru recommends a Shuttle or Concept and can turn you on to a source for those blades and booms, then, I would suggest "buddying up" to him. You will still learn how to fly R/C helicopters. Then, when you are ready, you will know what you want next. And you can follow your tastes after that.

I have been flying for over 10 years and I have flown the best including the coveted TSK. I fly a Raptor for the above reasons. I can fly it without thinking hard. I can get parts readily at my local hobby shop without taking a second on the house. It's icing on the cake that Mr Taya designed it and Ace is distributing it.

I sold my three Kalt Enforcers to a very good friend for the price of one new one. He is doing very well even without a computer or simulator. When he runs out of parts, he will also know how to fly and be ready to "choose" his next chopper. He will then, know what to look for and why he will select the Raptor to continue with.

Good luck with your Concept.
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Old 09-11-2002, 11:32 AM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Question on Concept, good beginner heli:

With the Concept has the flapping head (flapping hinge) on rough set downs can cause boom strikes more easily than a one piece axle head. Also the flapping head can be slightly more difficult to track correctly.

But the Concept has trained a lot of beginners over the years to fly. Technology has taken a big leap now in ease of engine removal and access from removing the engine to the ease of changing a plug.

A good Sim is worth a lot to you vs. the cost of a crash. Also parts availability is a factor.

Gyro:
I learned to fly in the olden days without one, trust me you will make leaps & bounds with the new gyro technologies a lot quicker than in the olden days of actually controlling the tail yourself. Just another thing to think about LoL. With a good gyro, it can be so much more enjoyable & relaxing..
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Old 09-11-2002, 07:41 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

Thanks, after reading all the advises I decided to forget the Concept and I have just found a used Raptor 30. For the gyro I read that it is worth to spend some more money on it, I ordered a GY401. Regarding the radio, I am going to start with my Futaba 6XAS even if it is not the best (but my wallet needs to get in a better shape ;-)). Nevertheless I will keep looking for a used 8UHFS or 9CH.
I started to practice on sim (G2) 2 weks ago, I don't know if it if close from a real heli but at least it is good for the reflexes and the repairs are much cheaper ;-)

Chris.
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Old 09-11-2002, 08:19 PM
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Default Is Kyosho Concept 30 for beginners ?

If things are a lil tight (isn't it for all of us) the GY 240 is a good gyro, but for a little more a good mid range gyro might be the best. Just according how much you want to spend really. Sorta like walking on to a car lot. You want a S10 or you want a Avalanche LoL..
But both do a reasonable job with the technologies nowadays are within reach & affordable.
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Old 09-14-2002, 04:25 PM
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Default Concept

I still have my Concept. And thats what I learned on.. great heli.
Also you might want to look at what just came out. ITS ONLY

$$$$$$$$$$ 159.00 $$$$$$$$$$$ (comes with muffler)

http://centuryheli.com/support/manua...uild/index.htm

I just got my kit a few days
ago. Not a bad price for a beginner heli!
Good Luck!
Jeff
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